RACING FROM FRANCE

[peterpau]

You hang on to it old lad. I hope you're gonna be right.

[Mike Lycett]

Too right

 

UP THE BAGGIES!

[Guest]

Bruno you say this cant jump from bird to bird except poultry

 

(1) so can you with your wealth of wisdom tell me how at least 1 parrot and approximatly 50 assorted finches died of this in a heathrow quarentine station?

 

I would refer you to Margaret Beckett's order for a review of UK quarantine facilities following this sorry episode, and the report on that review. Basically down to poor hygeine with no seperate isolation facilities for different species of birds, hundreds of birds housed together for 30 days with X infected birds. Even the keepers didn't take precautions, and they were all on anti-virals afterwards. Believe the facility owners were  threatened with prosecution too.

  

(2) Im sure you will have an answer to suit your own ends but you dont fool me all the evidence you put forward is for your own ends isnt it. its just that you cant or wont except the posibility of the real facts.If pigeons are even a slight risk then thats a risk that must be acted upon.

 

If you would take the time to read FACT on the main Avian flu thread, you'll see that my aim has been and still is to report ALL the facts, not just what people want to hear, but an awful lot of what they didn't want to hear too. I was the one who pointed out that the 'breaking news' in August 2005 that pigeons weren't at risk AT ALL from H5N1 was wrong, and I have always been at pains to uncover the true position. I tell it as it IS, not as I'd like it to be , or you'd like it to be.

 

Every day I cross the road, I risk being hit by a bus. Should I stop crossing the road because of this risk? Do some homework on risk assessment.

 

(3) If you have good biosecurity as i myself do, then that is fine but its not the pigeons that on liberation, home well that would be the problem, the problem would come from the hundreds, and sometimes thousands that dont make it accross the channel only to spend time as strays in france then to come toddling back days weeks and sometimes months later and not make it to their own loft such as yours with good biosecurity but to be picked up tired and exhausted by a non fancier, usually in my experience a child, in a street. why dont you just except there is a threat of this and make do with what you have, as im sure you must be very greatfull to Mr Bryant for getting you racing within our own shores as it is.

 

Again, you miss out important FACTS like the DEFRA race license conditions for birds returning late from races. They go into Quarantine. For three weeks. Knowledgeable fanciers already quarantine suspect birds.

 

(4) What possible harm would it do for you to miss out on a handfull of races this season as im sure by next year this will all be a thing of the past? Personally i cant see this ban being lifted, but if it is and problems do occur them you can all be very proud of yourselves and stand out as a shinning example of unselfish pigeon fanciers.

 

It is not being selfish to check-out the scientific research on avian flu and pigeons. As a pigeon owner it is common sense. By checking out the FACTS you have both an informed opinion and good grounding on the subject. Try it.

 

Poultry are the most AI-susceptible birds. Pigeons are the least.  Funny how live poultry movements from the continent into the UK are OK, while pigeon races from the continent into the UK are banned. The possible harm is obvious. The reason behind the ban is flawed. And if racing pigeons are banned from the continent - even from countries AI-free like Holland and Belgium - what message does that send out to the public, and your next door neighbours??

 

 

(5) Oh and on another note if H5N1 does come over here there will be no more racing inland either, so i say dont push your luck!

 

Again it seems to have escaped your notice that 1200 square miles of Scotland (Fife,  Dundee, Angus) is quarantined because of a confirmed H5N1 find in Fife on 4th April. Haven't noticed many races cancelled OUTSIDE the Zone, have you? The rest of Scotland trains as normal and races as normal, season starts 29th. The plain FACT is that the AI Contingency plans call for 3km & 10km zones round such finds, with Restrictions inside the zones, but normal outside them.

 

 

 

 

 

[Guest TAMMY_1]

MR LYCETT  I KNOW THERE WAS ANOTHER MEETING YESTERDAY AND AS I DONT KNOW WHAT HAPPENED DOUBLE OR QUITS WITH THIS FIVER YOU WOULD NOT PAY THE LAST TIME YOU WERE WRONG IF THE DECISION WAS NOT OVERTURNED YESTERDAY ARE YOU SENDING YOUR LOVELY TENNER SOMEWHERE ?I WOULD LOVE TO GET RESTRICTIONS LIFTED BUT WE ALL KNOW HOW DEFRA CAN BE AND I DONT THINK THEY WILL ALLOW RACING FROM OVER THE WATER.AND WHO ARE THESE BAGGIES YOU KEEP GOING ON ABOUT? ARE THEY BAGGIES FULL OF YOUR MONEY ? ALSO A NOTE FOR DANDYDOO HERE THERE WILL BE NO RACING FROM BELGIUM OR ANY WHERE OUTSIDE THE UK, THERE IS AN EU DIRECTIVE THAT OTHER EUROPEAN COUNTRIES CANT EVEN HAVE CROSS BORDER RACING WHERE THEY ARE SO  WE ARE LUCKIER THAN MOST OF THEM BECAUSE WE CAN RACE FROM SCOTLAND TO ENGLAND AND WALES AND VICE VERSA FRANCE AND THE LIKE CANT CROSS OVER ANY BORDERS BUT I DONT KNOW HOW THEY WILL PREVENT BIRDS CROSSING BORDERS IF THEY GO IN THE WRONG DIRECTION.

[Mike Lycett]

If I send any money anywhere it'll be to West bromwich Albion FC.   We need it !

[rlez]

Think your have to send them more than that Mike whats the chances of the beating Newcastle Saturday lol

 

hi rose

the baggies couldnt BEAT an egg

les

[superstar]

 

I would refer you to Margaret Beckett's order for a review of UK quarantine facilities following this sorry episode, and the report on that review. Basically down to poor hygeine with no seperate isolation facilities for different species of birds, hundreds of birds housed together for 30 days with X infected birds. Even the keepers didn't take precautions, and they were all on anti-virals afterwards. Believe the facility owners were  threatened with prosecution too.

  

Well bruno thats a really good answer but it shoots another hole in your flawed theories, you are basing everything on your own standard of hygine, you as well as i know there are more dirty lofts in this country than clean ones not to mention dove cots etc in public places. stray pigeons, possibly carrying infected material to colonies of town centre birds etc you really are viewing this with rose coloured glasses. all you need to do is learn your not always right, excersise a little caution, thought and patience and life WILL become rosey again trust me on that one.

 

If you would take the time to read FACT on the main Avian flu thread, you'll see that my aim has been and still is to report ALL the facts, not just what people want to hear, but an awful lot of what they didn't want to hear too. I was the one who pointed out that the 'breaking news' in August 2005 that pigeons weren't at risk AT ALL from H5N1 was wrong, and I have always been at pains to uncover the true position. I tell it as it IS, not as I'd like it to be , or you'd like it to be.

 

Every day I cross the road, I risk being hit by a bus. Should I stop crossing the road because of this risk? Do some homework on risk assessment.

 

You did say to start with that pigeons wernt a threat at all then in a later post agree they are, you said out of 100 that were exposed to H5N1 20 contracted it and died, you say the disease died with them, well under test conditions it would have done but if those pigeons had been strays that had contracted it, for however long it took to kill them would have been shedding infected material wherever they went. As for your risk assessment part you talk only of yourself crossing the road, that would not involve millions of potential victims just yourself and perhaps the psychology of maybe 1 to a handfull of of people unfortunate enough to view your demise plus the crew that was assigned to scrape up your remains and dispose of it. Hopefully uninfected remains as that would pose a much greater risk.

 

Again, you miss out important FACTS like the DEFRA race license conditions for birds returning late from races. They go into Quarantine. For three weeks. Knowledgeable fanciers already quarantine suspect birds.

 

As above. They dont all get to a loft or place where they can be separated just incase they maybe infected.

 

It is not being selfish to check-out the scientific research on avian flu and pigeons. As a pigeon owner it is common sense. By checking out the FACTS you have both an informed opinion and good grounding on the subject. Try it.

 

Well i have a feeling i have digested the subject just a little more than you, as all your putting forward is the points that might get you your own way and 'sod the consequences'.I however have taken in the broader view and excepted that its not worth the risk

 

 

Poultry are the most AI-susceptible birds. Pigeons are the least.  Funny how live poultry movements from the continent into the UK are OK, while pigeon races from the continent into the UK are banned. The possible harm is obvious. The reason behind the ban is flawed. And if racing pigeons are banned from the continent - even from countries AI-free like Holland and Belgium - what message does that send out to the public, and your next door neighbours??

 

 

In regard to your comments on the movement of poultry thats a different thing they are not allowed to wander the streets lost and alone and are kept in secure conditions with no risk to the general public. Large poultry proccessors and producers have actually got a DEFRA employee on site monitoring things constantly which seems you went knowing of and I know of one poultry proccessor that has just spent over 100,000 pounds on biosecurity, for not only his birds but for his work forces protection, now he didnt have to do that by law but he accepts the threat and potential and has acted upon it, I wonder what this man would make of your argument? Not a great deal i should imagine. And in my opinion it sends out the message that the government have put the health of the nation first, and pigeon fanciers such as you should except the risks involved and abide by the rules in place and not keep whinging for your own way, as if anything did come of this there wouldnt be a household in the land that wouldnt be affected by it.

 

Again it seems to have escaped your notice that 1200 square miles of Scotland (Fife,  Dundee, Angus) is quarantined because of a confirmed H5N1 find in Fife on 4th April. Haven't noticed many races cancelled OUTSIDE the Zone, have you? The rest of Scotland trains as normal and races as normal, season starts 29th. The plain FACT is that the AI Contingency plans call for 3km & 10km zones round such finds, with Restrictions inside the zones, but normal outside them.

 

Well it has affected a great many people what could have been racing now. I Have had some information on the fact that the swan found did not actually die of natural causes and it is believed, by people connected to DEFRA, that this incident was caused by someone from over seas (possibly fishermen) planting this infected corpse. now that is what has happened with just 1 case of an infected bird being found, not a whole host. Now you dont need to be a mathamatical genius to work out that with a quarentine zone the size of that you wouldnt want too many cases of infected birds to put a halt to all racing activity and that is just on that sort of exclusion zone size, however if that did become the case im sure there would be a countrywide ban on the movement of pigeons, racing or otherwise

 

 

 

 

[Guest TAMMY_1]

ROSE THERE IS NO CHANCE OF THAT.MR LYCETT HOW MANY TIMES DO I HAVE TO ASK FOR THAT MONEY YOU WERE PUTTING UP, DO YOU KNOW THE INTEREST RATE ON A FIVER [sORRY TENNER ]OVER 3 DAYS ? STUMP UP BEFORE YOU GET A DEBT COLLECTOR SEIZING YOUR BIRDS AS PAYMENT.

[Mike Lycett]

Tammy

 

You can ask as many times as you want.. I owe nothing to nobody.  "My money is on it being lifted" is a figure of speech that's all.

[big_al]

A   BET   IS   A   BET  ;D ;D

[peterpau]

Oh well I always thought WBA were a charity case

[Guest shadow]

If you look on the avian flu web site you will see they have found two dead swans with the virus in eastern france so any chance of racing to france  is going further away

[Guest]

Just been on the news here, shadow

[jimmy white]

just seen that, i think thats put the tin hat on the little hope that was there,,,bit of a b,just when things were looking slightly up

[Chris Little]

ROSE THERE IS NO CHANCE OF THAT.MR LYCETT HOW MANY TIMES DO I HAVE TO ASK FOR THAT MONEY YOU WERE PUTTING UP, DO YOU KNOW THE INTEREST RATE ON A FIVER [sORRY TENNER ]OVER 3 DAYS ? STUMP UP BEFORE YOU GET A DEBT COLLECTOR SEIZING YOUR BIRDS AS PAYMENT.

 

Typical true Jock   ;) ;D ;D ;D

[Guest]

I note what you say about latest developments in France. Even if France were AI-free, bearing in mind Belgium and Holland are, still need to put together a good case to convince DEFRA that it is as biased & misinformed as Superstar :-

 

 

Thread1

 

I would refer you to Margaret Beckett's order for a review of UK quarantine facilities following this sorry episode, and the report on that review. Basically down to poor hygeine with no seperate isolation facilities for different species of birds, hundreds of birds housed together for 30 days with X infected birds. Even the keepers didn't take precautions, and they were all on anti-virals afterwards. Believe the facility owners were threatened with prosecution too.

 

Well bruno thats a really good answer but it shoots another hole in your flawed theories, you are basing everything on your own standard of hygine, you as well as i know there are more dirty lofts in this country than clean ones not to mention dove cots etc in public places. stray pigeons, possibly carrying infected material to colonies of town centre birds etc you really are viewing this with rose coloured glasses. all you need to do is learn your not always right, excersise a little caution, thought and patience and life WILL become rosey again trust me on that one.

 

 

As I’ve said before, what I post is Fact not Theory. You are the one guilty of posting Your theories, without one shred of supporting evidence. Well here’s my evidence, or more correctly, a very small part of it, starting with  

 

1. The report into UK avian quarantine facilities.

 

http://www.defra.gov.uk/animalh/diseases/control/avianquarantine/independentreview/report.pdf

 

runs to 68 pages.

 

Extract

 

GENERAL PUBLIC SUMMARY

 

This review of quarantine for birds was requested by Margaret Beckett, the Secretary of State for environment, Food and Rural Affairs, in the context of bird flu and in particular its identification in a quarantine facility in Essex. The Independent Review Group wants it to be clear that while we are recommending a number of changes in the bird quarantine arrangements, it is our view that bird quarantine can play only a small part in protecting the UK from bird flu.

 

Bird flu exists in many forms (144 to be exact). In recent years one form has become a particular danger for poultry and has infected a great many poultry in East and Southeast Asia. There are reports of the same bird flu moving into Western Asia and Eastern Europe, and so nearer the UK.

 

In total in the last eight years, this flu has hospitalised about 150 people and five or six out of ten have died. All of these 150 people lived or worked very closely with poultry. It is very common for people to keep their own poultry in East and Southeast Asia, unlike in the UK, so the 150 serious infections is a small proportion of people in contact with infected birds. This flu is not generally passed from human-to-human because it is a bird flu.

 

In the UK, we want to protect our poultry from bird flu as much as possible for three reasons:

 

1. if poultry are infected there are very significant economic consequences for farmers and others as that flock and neighbouring flocks must be destroyed;

 

2. people working with poultry are at risk (even if a relatively small risk) of contracting bird flu, and we want to protect these workers; and

 

3. the more bird flu there is in the world, the more opportunity there is for it to evolve or change into a human flu that can be passed from human-to-human.

 

Bird flu viruses normally live in wild birds and especially in water fowl (such as ducks and wading birds) which do not become sick. This means that the most likely source of infection for our poultry is through wild birds, particularly as many of them migrate seasonally between continents and could bring back infection.

 

 

(2) European Food Safety Authority – AHAW - Annex to The EFSA Journal (2005) 266, 1-21; Animal health and welfare aspects of Avian Influenza, Animal health and welfare aspects of Avian Influenza.  Adopted on 13/14 September 2005

 

Extract

 

6.3.3 RACING PIGEONS

 

Historically, pigeons (Columba livia) have been considered resistant to avian influenza viruses and in experiments infections of pigeons have been difficult to establish.

 

Panigrahy et al., (1996) infected pigeons experimentally with HPAI and LPAI viruses of H5N2 subtype and HPAI H7N7 and LPAI H7N1, by oculonasal and intravenous routes and in contact with these infected birds. They failed to produce disease or seroconversion in any of the infected pigeons and only one tracheal swab, taken on day 3 from a LPAI H7-infected pigeon, yielded virus, which the authors considered to be residual inoculum. Similarly, Perkins and Swayne (2002) failed to show any virus excretion, disease, lesions or seroconversion in pigeons infected intranasally with HPAI A/chicken/Hong Kong/220/97 H5N1 virus.

 

These experimental data are consistent with field studies during the 1983-84 HPAI H5N2 Pennsylvania epizootic in which Nettles et al., (1985) reported failure to isolate any AI virus from 473 pigeons, 7 doves and 81 samples of material contaminating the feet of pigeons that were sampled in the infection quarantine area (Nettles et al., 1985). However, it should be noted that H5N1 viruses were reported as isolated from feral pigeons in Hong Kong in 2002 and 2003 (Li et al., 2004). Similarly HPAI of the H7N1 subtype was isolated from a dead collared dove (Streptopelia decaocto) during the 1999-2000 Italian epidemic (Capua et al., 2000c). In experiments aimed at assessing the ability of the HPAI H7N7 virus responsible for the outbreaks in The Netherlands in 2003 to infect pigeons administration of 107 EID50 to individual pigeons intranasally failed to result in the excretions of virus, clinical or histological signs or seroconversion (Shell, W. 2005).

 

The conclusion from these data could be that pigeons are very unlikely to become infected with AI viruses and therefore pose very little threat of introducing AI viruses into an area. However, some caution should be exercised in dismissing racing pigeons as potential agents for introduction and spread of AI viruses. Host range may be very much related to specific virus strains and could evolve during an epizootic. Equally racing pigeons could act as mechanical vectors if contaminated with infective faecal material while invading farms with affected poultry. The nature of racing pigeons over large distances and from country to country plus the procedure of gathering them together for release represent introduction risks that are unique to these birds. A detailed review of HPAI virus infections of pigeons has recently been published by (Kaleta and Honicke, 2004). *

 

*email

The impression of my own experimental data show that pigeons are - as compared to chickens - relatively resistant to infection and rarely develop signs of disease. Pigeons - especially racing pigeons - may act as passive long-distance carriers of influenza A virus if contaminated (feathers and legs).

 

Sincerely yours

Prof. Dr. Erhard F. Kaleta

 

 

Thread2

If you would take the time to read FACT on the main Avian flu thread, you'll see that my aim has been and still is to report ALL the facts, not just what people want to hear, but an awful lot of what they didn't want to hear too. I was the one who pointed out that the 'breaking news' in August 2005 that pigeons weren't at risk AT ALL from H5N1 was wrong, and I have always been at pains to uncover the true position. I tell it as it IS, not as I'd like it to be , or you'd like it to be.

 

 

Every day I cross the road, I risk being hit by a bus. Should I stop crossing the road because of this risk? Do some homework on risk assessment.

 

 

You did say to start with that pigeons wernt a threat at all then in a later post agree they are, you said out of 100 that were exposed to H5N1 20 contracted it and died, you say the disease died with them, well under test conditions it would have done but if those pigeons had been strays that had contracted it, for however long it took to kill them would have been shedding infected material wherever they went. As for your risk assessment part you talk only of yourself crossing the road, that would not involve millions of potential victims just yourself and perhaps the psychology of maybe 1 to a handfull of of people unfortunate enough to view your demise plus the crew that was assigned to scrape up your remains and dispose of it. Hopefully uninfected remains as that would pose a much greater risk.

 

 

It is clear from your reply that you are way out of your depth and understanding even basic concepts appears way beyond your limits. I was comparing susceptibility, poultry  -v-  pigeons. And attempting to show risk assessment through a simple concept – crossing the road. By your theory and limited knowledge of what risk analysies and assessment means, because there’s a risk of being knocked down, none of us should be crossing the road. That’s plain stupid. We all know there is always some risk, but we adopt simple measures like looking both ways before we cross to keep us safe and so reduce the risk to negligible. You don’t seem to accept even that … crossing the road = being killed to you. The race licensing conditions and what we know about avian flu and pigeons is the same – we know there is some risk, but we have adopted measures to make that risk negligible.

 

 

Having discovered H5N1 had been found in a dead pigeon in Hong Kong, I wanted to know more. Well I’ve posted some of what I’ve found out here. It is an evolving picture. Here is the latest:-

 

 

(3) DEFRA - INTERNATIONAL ANIMAL HEALTH DIVISION - International Animal Disease Monitoring Team POTENTIAL ROLE OF CERTAIN FREE LIVING AVIAN AND FREE LIVING AND DOMESTIC ANIMAL SPECIES IN THE EPIDEMIOLOGY OF HIGHLY PATHOGENIC AVIAN INFLUENZA (H5N1)

Qualitative Risk Assessments Ref: VITT1200/HPAI –Avian and mammal species Version No.:1

Date: 22 March 2006

 

Extract

 

4.1.2.1.2 Free-living pigeons

 

Free-living pigeons live in contact with people and a variety of species of birds and animals all over the world. Based on published data on AI detection in various bird species until 2005, birds of the order Columbiformes have been cited in 20 publications (1.8%) out of 1080 publications. Most AI detections have been cited in Anatiformes (geese, duck and swans)(~65%); Phasianiformes (pheasants, partridges quails, etc)(~12%); Charadiformes (lapwings, plovers)(~12%), Passeriformes (perching birds)(~4%), Psittaciformes (parrots)(~2%) and others (~3%) (Kaleta and others, 2005).

 

In one experiment, free-living pigeons have been shown to be resistant to infection and no virus has been re-isolated following the challenge with the strain of the virus obtained in Hong Kong in 1997 (Perkins and Swayne, 2002). In another experiment, experimental inoculation of pigeons with two different H5N1 isolates from Thailand resulted in the death of one pigeon while a few others become infected but showed no clinical signs. In this experiment, about half of the pigeons did not become infected following the challenge with the virus (Swayne, D.E., – personal communication, March 2006).

 

5 Conclusions

 

 

The currently available evidence indicates that exposure of various free living avian species and free living and domestic animal species to HPAI H5N1 virus is likely to result in death following close and direct exposure to the virus. In epidemiological terms, this development is consistent with the concept of a self-limiting disease (a ‘dead-end’ host). The recent pattern of the virus detection in these species indicates that these species became infected because of localised introduction and a high level of exposure to the virus from other species rather than horizontal transmission within the species concerned.

 

 

 

Thread3

It is not being selfish to check-out the scientific research on avian flu and pigeons. As a pigeon owner it is common sense. By checking out the FACTS you have both an informed opinion and good grounding on the subject. Try it.

 

Well i have a feeling i have digested the subject just a little more than you, as all your putting forward is the points that might get you your own way and 'sod the consequences'.I however have taken in the broader view and excepted that its not worth the risk

 

 

Now would that be the BBC1 BBC2 or BBCNEWS24 view?

 

Thread4

Poultry are the most AI-susceptible birds. Pigeons are the least. Funny how live poultry movements from the continent into the UK are OK, while pigeon races from the continent into the UK are banned. The possible harm is obvious. The reason behind the ban is flawed. And if racing pigeons are banned from the continent - even from countries AI-free like Holland and Belgium - what message does that send out to the public, and your next door neighbours??

 

In regard to your comments on the movement of poultry thats a different thing they are not allowed to wander the streets lost and alone and are kept in secure conditions with no risk to the general public. Large poultry proccessors and producers have actually got a DEFRA employee on site monitoring things constantly which seems you went knowing of and I know of one poultry proccessor that has just spent over 100,000 pounds on biosecurity, for not only his birds but for his work forces protection, now he didnt have to do that by law but he accepts the threat and potential and has acted upon it, I wonder what this man would make of your argument? Not a great deal i should imagine. And in my opinion it sends out the message that the government have put the health of the nation first, and pigeon fanciers such as you should except the risks involved and abide by the rules in place and not keep whinging for your own way, as if anything did come of this there wouldnt be a household in the land that wouldnt be affected by it.

 

 

No. The government has put the health of the poultry industry first. And if the poultry industry had put the health of their birds first, maybe the birds wouldn’t need such intensive protection from almost every living microbe on the planet. They are resistant to absolutely Zilch. Oh yes, very securely housed, never to walk period, never mind the street. How many cubic foot per bird now?

 

Thread5

 

Again it seems to have escaped your notice that 1200 square miles of Scotland (Fife, Dundee, Angus) is quarantined because of a confirmed H5N1 find in Fife on 4th April. Haven't noticed many races cancelled OUTSIDE the Zone, have you? The rest of Scotland trains as normal and races as normal, season starts 29th. The plain FACT is that the AI Contingency plans call for 3km & 10km zones round such finds, with Restrictions inside the zones, but normal outside them.

 

Well it has affected a great many people what could have been racing now. I Have had some information on the fact that the swan found did not actually die of natural causes and it is believed, by people connected to DEFRA, that this incident was caused by someone from over seas (possibly fishermen) planting this infected corpse. now that is what has happened with just 1 case of an infected bird being found, not a whole host. Now you dont need to be a mathamatical genius to work out that with a quarentine zone the size of that you wouldnt want too many cases of infected birds to put a halt to all racing activity and that is just on that sort of exclusion zone size, however if that did become the case im sure there would be a countrywide ban on the movement of pigeons, racing or otherwise

 

 

You make serious allegations here. Allegations which don’t pass even the ‘common sense’ test and are very foolish. (1) Such an action would be serious breach of law and if the suspicion was anything more than a rumour, the Fife Police would have been instructed to investigate it. (2) How would anyone know that the swan had H5N1 prior to lab testing? (3) And anyone (with brains that is) knowing a bird had died of H5N1 wouldn’t go within 6 miles of it. Basically you’ve shown your superior grasp of things in this last statement – if the likes of you have DEFRA’s ear and confidence, would tend to explain a lot of things …….

 

 

 

 

[jimmy_bulger]

hi all,

we are still at square 1 untill the 1st of may,if the defra guy's go with the rest of europe then we race from the continent.

if the defra do their own thing then we wont it's as simple as that !

if the scare mongers want to bull sh** it's upto them but untill the 1st of may we wont know .

jimmy.

[jimmy white]

on such a serious subject, i find that some of these posts, should be on the fun forum,[ so many experts, just making a fool of themselves],

[superstar]

Bruno answer just 1 simple question, CAN it be posible for a stray pigeon to bring H5N1 to this country?

 

[Guest]

im new to forum, but as i see it , can't we all be grateful that we do have some kind of racing.all this talk of will we, won't we race south seems a bit pointless.just get on with it .is racing north that dire.  LEAST WE CAN RACE.!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[Pompey Mick]

To me ,North Road is Inland racing same as West road and East Road it,s just that by racing Inland from a Northerly quarter we can,on the South Coast, get up to 550mls in distance. I am afraid all the arguments are about Fanciers opinions not about the ability of pigeons to race.

[peterpau]

Donal . Rose is right, we're south roaders. I'd like to go south, but on the strength of the NFC issueing a good north rd program, and the MNFC pandering to the sprinters. Publishing a race program under 135 miles to me. I Paid for my 13 year old son to join the NFC. Now the NFC appear to be doing an about turn, can I have me money back. Bugger I don't know.