When is a National a National?????

[Diamond dave]

Does anyone have any idea how they go about a true national race on the continent, or do they suffer the same as us?

[Pompey Mick]

There used to be a 'News of the World' race, to be able to enter ,your pigeon had to win a race  with specified minimum number of entries. I think the News of the World race was normally a South Road race and 'The People' race was North Road

[Guest]

bruno why would you send the other 14 if you only need 2 if you did not think they had a chance and did your 2 come in 1st and 2nd to your loft

 

(1) The other 14 went as part of a race plan for each bird / race - fettling up, training (gaining race experience) & preparation for another day.

 

(2) No they didn't show until I was away with the clcok, 2 hours after my first arrival!!!   ;D  1st to the loft was a yearling cock which as a young bird had been reported in a loft only 700 yards away from its home!!!  Kinda fools bet that one coming first & 'straight out of the racepoint too', hundreds of feet up in the sky, could have done with a parachute to get down.  :-/

[jimmy white]

rose thats exactly what i mean ,,a level playing field   in some of the nationals  the question i answered by saying i would pick the fed winner out of 3000 birds than pick the" national" winner with 1000 birds     the 3000 are racing to roughly the same area and the best bird wins,  in some of the nationals sometimes its not the best bird that wins when in a distance race  if a fancier was 2cnd flying 200 miles further, i know what i would think was the best bird ,,its happened in scotland a few times the winner flying 200 mies further than the shorter distance fliers, now thats what i would call some winner but with pigeons you can never get a level playing field,and you stay where you stay thats not any fault of the fancier,unless as hyacinth says, they are all flying to the one loft, would be fair.

and just to pick up on fifers point , i would say he was dead right,  

[Guest]

bruno u say national birds have to think as they are with birds from all over the country, which national has birds from all over the country, if this was so there surely would be big birdage, i can't find my 2005 rpra rules but i am sure it stated if a organisation used the name "NATIONAL" it must be open to all rpra members, but this is now not in the 2006 rules????? , the 2 scottish national clubs are open to the whole of scotland, (a country)

 

I was referring to the likes of the Scottish & Irish nationals, Fifer.

 

Had to laugh at Joe Murphy's comment on the SNFC Cheltenham YB national 2005 where a Stirling & a Stonehaven bird dropped together at Stonehaven. "Had the Stirling pigeon dropped off at Stirling ....". Point was neither the Stonehaven pigeon nor the Stirling pigeon were anywhere near Stirling, most probably both part of the leading bunch heading for northern parts down the east coast, with the Central Scotland bird(s) tagging along .... probably beaten as soon as the strings were cut because it wasn't thinking for itself, and certainly well beaten as soon as it crossed the Forth into Fife.

[THE FIFER]

yes bruno but if like scotland there are 2 nationals flying the same day u can't be flying against the whole country in any of them can u, part of the country is flying in one and part in the other, also regarding fed and national birds, some races the fed and national go togeather, so is the winner of the fed going to get the same recognition as the national,winner i don't think so.

[THE FIFER]

THE MEANING OF THE WORD "NATIONAL" ACCORDING TO THE OXFORD DICTIONARY IS QUOTE: "AFFECTING OR CONCERNING A WHOLE NATION"

                                                            _______________

 

[square_peg]

BRUNO

I THINK YOU HAVE LOST TRACK A WEE BIT OF THIS THREAD, NATIONAL OR FED OPEN RACE WAS THE QUESTION,SURE WE ALL PUT DOO'S TO CLUB RACES FOR TRAINING,BUT I WILL NOT PUT ANY PIGEON TO A FED OPEN RACE JUST FOR A TOSS AND WHERE I COME FROM I DONT KNOW ANYBODY THAT DOES

[Guest]

BRUNO

I THINK YOU HAVE LOST TRACK A WEE BIT OF THIS THREAD, NATIONAL OR FED OPEN RACE WAS THE QUESTION,SURE WE ALL PUT DOO'S TO CLUB RACES FOR TRAINING,BUT I WILL NOT PUT ANY PIGEON TO A FED OPEN RACE JUST FOR A TOSS AND WHERE I COME FROM I DONT KNOW ANYBODY THAT DOES

 

Yes you're quite right, read Fifer's post again and completely missed Fed 'open' and '500' miles first time round.

 

But surely the principle I put forward earlier is still valid: Fife Fed birds are coming home to Fife; But National birds are also coming home to Fife, AND Angus, Aberdeenshire, Buchan, Berwickshire, Dumfriesshire, Lanarkshire, Lothians, Renfrewshire, Dunbartonshire etc.

 

[Fifer you can't get any more National than that. The Scottish clubs represent every region in Scotland, and you can only fly against those members of your club who entered your race. What or who in the other club did and when doesn't alter your result or diminish the achievement].

 

square_peg - Scottish North West fanciers send the same amount of birds to their Fed Opens as their 'ordinary' Fed races. Surely therefore the same principle applies : their fancied birds are expected to score and are pooled, the others are not fancied, not pooled and obviously sent for different reasons. Our first Open falls on June 3rd. I fancy a few candidates for the inland National on 17th June will be in it for that race and not the Open.

 

I stand by what I said - National birds are hand-picked for the job. If they're not thought to be up for it, they're not sent.

[square_peg]

SORRY BRUNO I DONT AGREE   WE NEVER SEND ANY DOO TO 500MLS FED OPEN OR NATIONAL IF WE DONT THINK ITS UP TO THE JOB. THING IS IF YOU DONT SEND FOR THE FIRST TIME HOW DO YOU KNOW. I DO AGREE THAT  THE BEST ARE SENT TO NATIONALS THO.

[jimmy white]

just a bit off beat ,but does anyone remember an INTERNATIONAL race from nantes run by usher vaux, i still have the result out the racing pigeon [it included the snfc race]IT WAS THE YEAR BEGLIN BROS WON THE SNFC FROM NANTES,WITH HIGH NOON, icant remember what position he was in the international, but as i was nota member  of the national ,i sent in the international, i think i was about 200th, but if i remember right there were about 15000 birds away, [ill try and dig out the result]

just drifting back in time   :)

[Guest ben]

Hi Jimmy was high noon a hammond&whitacker grooter?big blue cock?think he was,the vaux asher was`nt really a intern. just called it,and included scots and some english out the unc i think,raced every year till the brewery stopped supporting,i got it in some old squills in the shed from latish 60-early 70,i`ll try tyo find a few and see.

    The problem with national racing would be eradicated,if yoy could send in your local club,like i  remember we could duplicate back into the fed and combine,worked as sweet as pie,but would take a far bit of planning.

    this way we could be more like the belgium ideal,everbody going to 1 lib across the channel,basketing local club,massive birdage,no backbiting,result would tell the story,unlike now,most distance boys use club for training,up to nantes around 3oomiles then jump into the big ones..but look at what happens here bristol just as an example,You can fly Nantes, with Bristol Fed,West England SR Combine,Gloucester Fed,CSClassic FC,BBC ,NFC,and more than once with a couple of those clubs,it`s unblevable,time and cost factors must be massive,but that`s just the beginning,now comes the big races and there are just too many,to few birds sent,BUT you still got to pay for transport and man hours for each seperate race,but in the end,costs will become so huge,clubs,even the big boys will have to combine,or go against the wall.

Dave,yes it was.

[Guest]

I fly in the UNC and we call our combine races, a National race, as the whole of the UNC birds are liberated together, but if I topped it (can always dream) I would say I have topped the Combine not won a National. Isnt it all just tit for tat, as we all, if purchasing new birds, just have to look at the birds results and check the birdage and weather conditions they won in, and make our own mind up. Obviously it would be the ultimate test of our birds performances if say the whole of the up north (east and west) were racing together, but there would be a hell of a lot more empty perches on a race day.