Emails to defra

[mickmcgrevy]

Hello all,

 

No doubt by now you will all have heard what transpired at the meeting yesterday with defra,

 

it has been sugested on another web site, that it may be a good idea to send a load of emails to the minister concerned and let him know our feelings, politely of course

 

so get typeing email the minister concerned at,

 

david.miliband@defra.gsi.gov.uk

 

Mick

[Pompey Mick]

On it's way.

[Guest TAMMY_1]

A MILLION E-MAILS WILL NOT CHANGE DEFRA ONCE THEY HAVE DECIDED ON SOMETHING

[Guest ben]

Hi Mick, That`s not the point,if the NFC kept their word ,and made Thurso a open race as well,it could have turned out a GREAT year for us,but double guessing defra llooked ok a few days ago,but now were right inS**t street,i know we still got a chanceto race france july,but times running outfast,why don`t you get the comittee to reverse back to nothroad,because as it is now,quite a few distance boys will be thinking of packing the game in,chances are bird flu comes back with a bang winter,and we will be finished,end of story.

[PIGEON_MAN]

PERSONALLY I THINK IT IS VERY SILLY TO MESS WITH THESE PEOPLE,I KNOW PEOPLE THINK THAT WE SHOULD BE RACING FROM FRANCE BUT YOU HAVE ALL READ THE REPORT ON THE MEETING YESTERDAY AND I THINK THAT IT IS BEST LEFT AT THAT.DONT FORGET DEFRA COULD JUST AS EASY STOP RACING ALLTOGETHER.I KNOW PEOPLE DON,T LIKE PETER BRYANT AND SAY HE IS NOT A PIGEON MAN BUT I KNOW THAT HE IS DOING EVERYTHING HE POSSIBLEY CAN TO GET DEFRA TO ALLOW US BACK INTO FRANCE.PERSONALLY I AM PREPAIRED TO FORGET RACING FROM FRANCE THIS YEAR AND THEN HOPEFULLY THINGS WILL HAVE SETTLED DOWN COME NEXT SEASON,I FEEL THAT BY SENDING EMAILS TO DEFRA COULD POSSIBLEY DO MORE HARM THAN GOOD.

 

[Mike Lycett]

Mick

 

I think that would be very ill advised personally

 

Mike

[Guest]

Mike, why ill advised, can you explain your thinking?

[Guest]

This is a copy of my email to Mr Milibrand , my MP and BBC news. I think everyone of us should write to Mr Miliband, what are we going to loose, stop us racing full stop, when every other country in Europe is????? Club marking takes place tomorrow, encourage those with out email to write, print letters of for them that they only need to put their addres and name and signature to. I would love to know the logic and thinking by those who say don't do it, and happy to debate it with them.

 

Dear Mr Miliband, I am a Pigeon Fancier, a Racer of Homing Pigeons, a hobby carried out by thousands of people in the UK, also throughout Europe and the rest of the World.

I am dismayed by the apparent lack of knowledge and incompetence shown by your officials, in their handling of the Avian Flu issue with regard to Racing Pigeons; and their continued refusal to allow us to race our pigeons from the near continent, specifically France and Spain.

Quite rightly your department has been handling this very difficult issue very delicately and I and all of the other pigeon fanciers in the UK have the same concerns about the possible pandemic threat from Avian flu (AI), IF it should mutate as any member of the public has. We as pigeon fanciers under the guidance of our own associations/unions (representing the different regions/countries within the UK) have followed DEFRA?s instructions responsibly to help ensure a limited risk from Racing Pigeons.

We have however provided scientific evidence to your officials highlighting the high resistance that Racing Pigeons have to AI.

I was dismayed to read on the Royal Pigeon Racing Association?s (RPRA) website (www.rpra.org) today, that after meeting your officials yesterday, your officials were not able to provide an authoritative view on the situation but these Officials (DEFRA Policy team) would have to make recommendations to a senior policy team who would then have to make recommendations to you before a decision could be made and this would take several weeks! This after several meetings over the past few months with representatives of the Racing Pigeon organisations!

Mr Miliband what is exasperating is that the rest of Western Europe is now able to race their pigeons from France and Spain and we are not, because our own Government won?t allow us. It took the French Government 10 years to allow British Beef back in??.but it has only taken them a few months to allow British Fanciers? pigeons to race from France (and Dutch, Belgian and German fanciers who have started racing from France already). But we find that our own Government contrary to the other EEC Governments of Western Europe is discriminating against us by not allowing us to race.

I always believed the Labour party was a party that fought for freedom and was against discrimination of minorities, Racing Pigeons is still in many instances a workingman?s sport based in the very heartland of Labour constituencies, it is sad to see the party discriminating against its own.

Decisions are time critical for racing pigeons, our window for racing from France and Spain is very small and we should have started by now to enable us to compete from the longer distance races and the International races against our fellow European fanciers from the prestige race points such as Tarbes, Dax, Perpignan and Barcelona. Your officials should have full knowledge of the impact of their decisions, the association (RPRA) of which I am a member has provided information on the economic consequences for many small businesses and for all the members of the association and the extreme low risk that Racing Pigeons have of contracting AI.

This smacks of incompetence to rival that shown currently at the Home Office, Officials not up to providing valid reasons why we are not allowed to race but Officials that have to go back and look at the information provided by us, many times over the preceding months. Your Officials had been requested to meet our Pigeon Associations over two weeks ago, unyet they went to the meeting, without apparently from what I can gather, any idea of the way that Pigeon Racing is organised and little idea of what the real risks are from Racing Pigeons.

I would ask if you would urgently look into this matter and gee up your Officials to come back with a clear and concise position; coming back in several weeks time with a ?yes? will in effect be a ?no? because it will be very difficult to prepare our birds in time for the longer prestigious races and organise transport, licences and Ferry crossings etc.

The worst thing for Pigeon Fanciers at the moment is that we are in limbo and don?t know what to do. We need clear guidance from DEFRA; based on evidence and current risk I can only see a decision in the current climate to give us an immediate green light to fly our Pigeons from the Continent.

However if your Officials are not of this opinion we need justification on why this is, we are citizens that help fund Quango?s and Government departments such as DEFRA and have the right I believe to know why we can not fly our Pigeons from the Continent.

I look forward to your urgent attention and speedy reply.

I am a member of the Tiverton Continental Racing Pigeon club; the Devon & Cornwall Continental Pigeon Club, the National Flying Club and the British Barcelona Club

Yours Sincerely

Alan Baker

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Guest]

I agree with Mike. If we start to p-ss them off with loads of emails, there will be no chance of changing their minds. If you look at it from their point of view they are trying to keep the risks low. I think we should all be grateful we are actually racing this year, as you only have to think back a few months to when it looked like we weren't going to race. I would be chuffed if we could race the channel as Ive been getting mine ready as normal as if they were going to the channel, but if they dont then Im happy just to get some races inland.

[ray]

at the end of the day why shouldn't you send an e mail to ask for there support, after all they ask you to vote for them. your only asking.  you don't get nothing if you don't ask.thats the trouble with us stiff upper lip brits sit back and let them walk all over you. don't ask they will think your not interested and they will do nothing. i'm not saying have ago at them , i'm saying show them how passionate you are about our sport. a mean there hasn't been another outbreak, so at least they could think about it  

[Guest]

I can't believe that we aren't allowed to question. If your perspective is that you are happy to fly 200+ from the Midlands and that's the type of race you want to compete in fine. But there are many fanciers in this country that wish to fly long distance that is their goal. Both need to be catered for. 'We will p**s them off', for me that opinion is at the route of the worst things in Pigeon Racing. It is the reason why we have 4 or 5 clubs with only 5 members in each in a town, it is the reason why we have, 3 or 4small feds in an area instead of one......fanciers seem to be afraid to stand up for what's right. It is the reason why the bullies can split up clubs to stop the best fancier winning races.

If you read my letter, I have  a) remained supportive of the RPRA and want a proper explanation as to why we are not allowed to race.

I have been Secretary to large workingmen's committees in the past and I know its damn hard work and thankless, but sometimes when we get it wrong, there has to be a different approach, what I and others are trying to do is not undermine the RPRA and other Unions but provide a different approach, after all the current one certainly hasn't worked. Mick Mcgrevy reckons from information he recieved that the DEFRA people at the meeting on the 23rd didn't have a clue about Pigeon Racing. Remember these people are civil servants, our servants, we have a right to question them and politicians.

Anyone reading this has the right to their opinion and if you think I'm barking then I will not decry you that right. But I hate being bullied and that is what I see DEFRA as doing, their attitude seems to be 'pigeon Fanciers they are inconsequential we don't need to take any notice of them'. Sadly today if you look at any minority group, the group that is more vociferous (not militant) gets listened to more.......we have to start doing this to have any chance of our sport surviving. We must be pro active not reactive, we must change.

Finally I said everyone is entitled to their opinion and no one has to justify it....however I think there are exceptions, those in the public spotlight who opinionate and who regularly express their opinions are only stirring things when they on odd occasions make a statement without justification.

Mike Lycett is in the pigeon spotlight, so when he says he thinks it ill advised I think such comment is ill advised if he is not prepared to explain his reasoning. It may be of course that he has not had the opportunity to respond yet.

[Guest]

I think an approach to DEFRA by the pigeon fraternity is well in order BUT you all have voted for and put into office your Mambers of Parliament, these people rely on joe public for their livelyhood.  Your Members of Parliament are or should be in a better position to speak with the Defra people than the man or woman in the street.  So my suggestion would be bombard your local serving MP's with e-mails and get them to do what they are elected and paid for.

 

[AlanWilkins]

Think mikes right bonbarding um with emails wont help 1 from are association representing all of us might

[Guest shadow]

PERSONALLY I THINK IT IS VERY SILLY TO MESS WITH THESE PEOPLE,I KNOW PEOPLE THINK THAT WE SHOULD BE RACING FROM FRANCE BUT YOU HAVE ALL READ THE REPORT ON THE MEETING YESTERDAY AND I THINK THAT IT IS BEST LEFT AT THAT.DONT FORGET DEFRA COULD JUST AS EASY STOP RACING ALLTOGETHER.I KNOW PEOPLE DON,T LIKE PETER BRYANT AND SAY HE IS NOT A PIGEON MAN BUT I KNOW THAT HE IS DOING EVERYTHING HE POSSIBLEY CAN TO GET DEFRA TO ALLOW US BACK INTO FRANCE.PERSONALLY I AM PREPAIRED TO FORGET RACING FROM FRANCE THIS YEAR AND THEN HOPEFULLY THINGS WILL HAVE SETTLED DOWN COME NEXT SEASON,I FEEL THAT BY SENDING EMAILS TO DEFRA COULD POSSIBLEY DO MORE HARM THAN GOOD.

I  agree with you  entirely getting DEFRA's back up will achieve nothing the Rpra are doing everything they can i personall have written France off for this year

 

 

[Guest]

Alan Wilkins, how has it helped the season is nearly written off.Shadow who is suggesting the RPRA is not doing everything they can..........but they aren't achieving anything at the mo....I can understand Alan Wilkins not being bothered he's a sprinter and afraid he might not be able to sprint.......long distance is not his worry.Shadow the RPRA has been so succesful you have written off the season. Have you read the report of the meeting of the 23rd (www.rpra.org)

Can you believe DEFRA waited two weeks to have the meeting on May 23rd to tell us that they would have to back to their senior civil servants to discuss the matter!!! And we went to the meeting 'and presented our case'.

Ain't we been presenting our case for months?????? And secondly if we have why does DEFRA need another two weeks to discuss.?????

What's happened to the risk analysis didn't they come with a revised one.........it may mean nothing has changed in their eyes but surely they should have been in a position to produce the current risk analysis??????????????

Lads I appreciate you have a different view point and as a pigeon fancier I find it sad how so many are content to lie down and let civil servants ruin chanell racing, without a fight.

 

 

 

[Guest]

Htyacinth yes you are quite right it is imperative that people write to their MP to, which I think most of us who have written to the secretary of state have; to contact your MP go to  www.locata.co.uk/commons/

[AlanWilkins]

a sprinter ummm won picauville 6 times n messac 4 time channel averages 2005 and by the way this year i set up a new section for 8 pairs of naturals just for channel racing due to the ban i have to wait another 12 months before i can try these birds out, as a club secatary president fed delgate and committee menber i do whats best for every one in my club fed and asssociation.

Albear If you had 600 letter from the same ppl about the same thing through your letter box how would you react.

I fly sprinters i enter every race.

[Guest]

Alan, sorry but you have given yourself the title of sprint specialist......but no offence intended. Alan if I was a politician I'd be bloody inconvenienced and would be wondering what the hell was going on. Alan believe me it works politicians are always afraid of the status quo shifting, they live a precarious life and they will do anything to proytect their position.

 

Let me tell you a story at the age of 22 I became secretary of the largest workingmen's club in Wales with a turnover in excess of £1million in 1974. This club was on a housing estate of 4,000 council houses which I lived on. In about 1979 I applied to join the local ward labour party. I got turned down as 'unsuitable'. I asked what I could do and was told nothing, it was final as a non member I had no rights??? On the basis of this thread and the reaction of a lot of you here, you would have accepted this and said nowt can be done and let's not upset the people with local power. Well surprise surprise I didn't I went to my MP and to the Labour Party HQ. Eventually I was allowed to attend a ward meeting in which the local Branch secreatry attended, the next most powerful man to the local MP. IT was alleged that I had been part of the Tenants association (I had been) and that I had proposed a vote of no confidence in the local Labour party!!! Not true, but I did tell them that if I felt the need I would not have hesitated!! I got accepted but I found out, the upshot was that the local ward councillors thought I was joining because I was going to stand against them to be nominated to stand for Council!! Wasn't true and I didn't..........but it illustrates the point that they thought they were going to lose their power..you see I was abig fish in a small pool and would have got in if I had decided to stand. So Alan 600 letters to Miliband and local MP would be fantastic and would make a huge difference and yes we would get some movement I guarantee it!!!!!! The trouble is none of us pigeon fanciers will stick together, we can't even stay in the same bloody clubs!!!

[Mike Lycett]

Allen

 

Bloody hell mate give me a minute to respond!  Far from popular belief I do have a life away from pigeons & pigeon forums you know!!

 

Yes, I think it ill-advised to be honest. I haven't got the time, will, or inclination to go into depth with my reasoning, but I will say this.  If I were receiving email(s) like that, then i'd certainly be antagonised. I don't think it does our cause any good at all. We have a process & the people representing us are trying their hardest I'm sure. To act on one's own initiative like this - although well intentioned is, I believe, not appropriate.

 

I now don't believe that DEFRA will make a decision that favours us in time to get OB's across the brook. They only have to stall a bit longer & the issue will go away for 12 months. If you were DEFRA, can you tell me you wouldn't do the same? What the rest of Europe are doing Im' afraid is completely irrelevant.

 

Sometimes, we as pigeon men have to accept that we have to bow to certain regulations & not try to bend every rule in the book just to get what some want.  It is "some" too - I know bl88dy loads that aren't in the slightest bit bothered.

 

Not nice, & I aint saying I agree, but its' the way it is.

 

Feel free to email if you so wish, all I was saying was that, in my personal opinion I thought it not appropriate

 

Mike

[Guest]

Thanks for the link Albear, I see Janet Anderson is still the sitting member for Rossendale and Darwen.

 

Janet is well aware of pigeon people and pigeon racing, in fact she presented the prizes at the Rosemount a few years ago. If there is anyone on the forum from her constituency I'm sure she will give you a good "hearing"

[Guest]

Mike, yes if I had a wadfull of e mails I would be atagonised cause I'd want to know why..............we are talking here about politicians, they ain't got day jobs besides, this is their day job, that is what they do, I can't beliebve how nieve everyone is being. I have worked in political environments all my life and I can assure you that the one thing that makes politicians jump is publicity and uncomfortable situations. No Mike I shan't e mail, because I think you should share your reasons on here, but from what you've said there is in my opinion no sound reasoning in your advice and frankly I think it is poor advice.

As to letting it go away for another year, what a slippery slope, scientifically next year may be far worse, this year is perhaps the better chance to fly the chanell. It all depends on what starin of flu appears in next year's batch, if H5, mutates in to next year's strain, which there is more of a chance than this year, then we are in trouble. Don't forget every year the strain of flu changes even if H5 is part of it, until the new strain appears no vaccine can be produced and it takes 6 months to produce a new vaccine, that's why the Government ordered a stack of genetic anti viruls.

But let me ask all the doubting Thomases a question, cause I don't understand this 'fear of DEFRA' logic. Jimmy Bulger on another thread has mentioned that there is a possible mutation in Romania.........now I wasn't aware of this but I am aware of a problem case in Indonesia, several people from the same family, which at present is not giving huge concern but is puzzling for the scientist because they can not yet find its source.

We have the greatest tournament in the Worlsd starting in a few weeks and we have perhaps the first sign that the flu has mutated, so that it can be carruied from human to human. Do I hear anyone calling for the World Cup to be stopped because people from the far east where there have ben the most cases will be attending in Germany and possibly spreading the virus??? Do we hear of any ban on people moving througout the world, is there any means of stopping migratory birds travelling from infected areas to our shores, isn't poultry and livestock from countries that have had cases of avian flu still comimg to our shores?

But pigeon Fanciers are telling me that we should accept DEFRA's view and that it is for our own good and that the people in high office in the sport are doing everything for us. Read again the report at www.rpra.org, it says we put our case and DEFRA are going to consider it, I'm being bloody thick, I thpought we had put our case months ago.....and I thought DEFRA had come up with a risk analysis that showed that there was a risk...........there was no mention of a fresh risk analysis.

Well I've voiced my opinion, to anyone I might have offended by my directness, it is not my intention to be personal and you have my apology if it has seemed that way but I do not change my view at all because no one has come up with an intellectual arguement to change my view, nearly every arguement has been based on fear of what DEFRA can do to us and wat a pain we'd be to the Minister. Hey let's all be bloody pains.

No more posts on this matter from me, you've had plenty.If anyone wants any info/support on writing to their MP etc please don't hesitate to contact me.

Otherwise good racing to all

Albear

 

PS Sorry Mike forgot to address two point s you made. Is it important what other countries are doing, of course it is we are members of a huge community and you should know that that community can put us in our place if we do not work in partnership, the other members can be a huge leverage, of course we went over on metric measurements for fruit and veg out of our own free volition, like hell we did! Yes Mike you may know loads that aren't in the slightest bothered, that's cause your in the Midlands a hot bed of sprinting, you can still get 200 miles under your belt. What about those down South Mike, who don't have the luxury and want 200 miles. I can tell you down in the South West it has ruined the season for many, especially the NFC about turn to Sennon Cove. But that's pigeon fanciers according to you Mike, don't give a toss about each other I'm all right Jack and that's ok.

And let me declare my interest, I've moved down year just over a 12 month and this will be my first season, I'm only flying YB so from a personal point of view it don't really matter to me either......but I care about the sport and the way we are moving forward and the way we seem to be destroying it

[Mike Lycett]

Allen

 

Im' a sprinter & loads around me are. So what?  Am I less worthy??   I represent a continental club & that should tell you that I'd be more than happy to race the water too.   As for knowing loads who aint bothered - aye I do - and they're from all over the place  - not just the Midlands.

 

If you feel so aggrieved by what's going on, then email Bryant and enquire whether you can see the evidence that's been put forward - better still, ask if you can go too?

 

The best bloke we have on our side in terms of producing evidence that pigeons don't carry or contract the disease is Gordon Chalmers in canada who has been invaluable. Now, put 2 + 2 together.  Where do you think gordon came "into the loop"??  Who do you think made it happen?    And you're trying to tell me I aint bothered!!!!!!

[Guest]

Your wrong there Mr. Lycett, before you came on this forum I was putting people in touch with Gordon Chalmers through my English friend Kevin Ball of Abbotsford British Columbia. Gord and Kevin took the Canadian Government on 2 years ago and won in High Court, when they had a form of avian influenza in BC and were about to destroy some 19 million birds including racing pigeons.

[Guest]

Mike, no you aint any less worthy, but neither are the distance men, email Bryant? I have, it's presumptious of you to think I haven't.

But like I say your advice in my opinion is poor it only serves to protect those with the attitude, that they are happy racing inland and they don't want that risked because of those who want to fly the chanell. Being a Press Officer of a Continetal club has nothing to do with what should be done to progress chanell racing.

Can you clarify are you claiming that the scientific arguement about the resistence of Racing Pigeons to H5 and the work done in North America was brought to the attention of Western Europe and particularly the RPRA by yourself?

[Guest]

http://www.pigeonbasics.com/forum/blah/m-1124999952/s-0/.

 

This was back in August of last year.  You will see that I brought the subject up on the old forum.