The moult and flights

[REDCHEQHEN]

I would like advice on two things please, one pair of young birds - nestmates, have been casting flights two together at once, one of them early in the season - so wasn't sent to many races, and the nest mate cast the two end flights together, is this likely to happen as older birds?

 

The second, is we would prefer not to have prisoners but we do, and we have been cutting the flights down and letting them out. One hen managed to get up and away with 4 cut down flights on each wing. It was suggested that only one wing should be cut down, what affect would this have on the bird?

[Wiley]

for your cutting down flights it is all to do with balence i believe,if youve cut 4 flights in each wing the pigeon is evenly balenced however if you only cut one wing down the bird is not balenced hence the reason it cant get up.Also you should cut down the one wing on all of the secondaries in practice ive always found theyd never get up that way

[REDCHEQHEN]

Thanks for the reply - would they still be able to get up to boxes? Or do they need bottom boxes?

[Wiley]

the box could be lowest possible 2 feet of the floor

[Mike Lycett]

soap one wing down with washing up liquid.  Makes em off balance - can't fly yet washes off easy & has no lasting damage

[Guest]

The best way is to use cellotape on one wing only, its hard to explain by writing but you can call me on 01754-880870, but not before 8pm and after Wednesday

 

Frank Tasker

[Guest]

;D Blimey Frank , you may find the phone red hot now youve offered advice??                               ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D                     andy

[Guest]

I would like advice on two things please, one pair of young birds - nestmates, have been casting flights two together at once, one of them early in the season - so wasn't sent to many races, and the nest mate cast the two end flights together, is this likely to happen as older birds?

 

Would say the birds are in exceptional condition when this happens. Have only had it happen in young birds, and like you wasn't able to race the bird because of it. Have no experience of it in old birds, nearest I've had to it is one flight less than half way up and next dropped.

 

The second, is we would prefer not to have prisoners but we do, and we have been cutting the flights down and letting them out. One hen managed to get up and away with 4 cut down flights on each wing. It was suggested that only one wing should be cut down, what affect would this have on the bird?

 

Wondered why they remained prisoners if you were letting them out like this, as surely the pigeon will become 'broken' to your loft?

 

Cutting flights is not something I would recommend as in today's predator climate the bird needs to be able to get itself out of trouble. Think you'll find the [no] 'mutilation' provisions of the Animal Health & Welfare Act also prohibits it.

 

 

[REDCHEQHEN]

 

I'm not even going to reply to that Bruno, cos you don't half p*** me off at times

[Guest]

I'm not even going to reply to that Bruno, cos you don't half p*** me off at times

 

chinn up susan some can go ott at times,you done really well this year,good luck for next year

[ribble]

bruno, i know a guy who had a cock drop two flights in each wing two days before basketing,he thought his chances of winning had gone.he sent the bird and won 1st open north west classic club 430 mile.

[Guest]

I'm not even going to reply to that Bruno, cos you don't half p*** me off at times

 

 

Explain please what p****ed you off now and earlier?

[Guest TAMMY_1]

 

 

Explain please what p****ed you off now and earlier?

 

I KEN BUT I'M NO TELLING YOU :P

[Guest]

If its 'multilation' government term, not mine, Heading for section 19 of the act. Try this link, look for 3.13.

 

http://www.scotland.gov.uk/Publications/2006/10/12104247/2

[REDCHEQHEN]

3.13 Wing pinioning of birds other than poultry

 

85. Wing pinioning is a permanent way of stopping birds flying which involves the removal at no more than two days after hatching, of the metacarpal and phalanges on one wing, which is the area where the primary feathers grow. It has strong welfare, management, conservation and restraint of non-native species arguments in its favour. For example, it prevents non-native water birds escaping into the British countryside. It is considered to be a humane, effective and safe method of controlling captive water birds, and wildfowl to enable them to be exhibited. It is a common practice in zoos throughout the world.

 

86. We intend that wing pinioning will be permitted (Schedule 3 to the Regulations) for all species of birds other than farmed poultry. These birds must not be kept for the production of food. The wing pinioning of farmed poultry is currently prohibited, and we consider that this prohibition should continue.

 

1. Bruno - its Scottish law

2. Its a consultation document

3. ITS PERMITTING THIS in ALL BIRDS except poultry

4. Nowhere on here does it say MUTILATION - am I reading it wrong, or have you ?

5. I would not do the above - it sounds barbaric and totally different from what I HAD done

6. The birds are not settled, it allowed them the freedom to roam the garden, get fresh air, sunshine, a bath and to dry in the sun. They were never out unsupervised and were no more at risk than flighted birds. The flights have now moulted out altogether, and since one bird managed to fly out with cut down flights I was asking for advice as to what to do as I didn't want any more to disappear, they are at the moment not allowed out - AND THEN I GOT YOUR REPLY

[Guest]

Thanks for your reply Susan. The reason I posted the Scottish Act is that it is the only one available, DEFRA website gives a broken link. England & Wales each have their own Acts, all are essentially the same.

 

Got the headings wrong, 19 is Unnecessary Suffering, 20 is Mutilation. The link below is for the Act as it is just now (lots of page-downs to reach 19 & 20, if you want to check out the headings).

 

http://www.opsi.gov.uk/legislation/scotland/acts2006/60011--c.htm

 

The previous link is as you say for an amendment to the Act ["20, Mutilation"] which as far as I can see has only one 'bird' exception, and I agree, a pretty barbaric one at that. .

 

You asked for advice on cutting flights. I don't know if this Act stops this [Hope that our Unions are part of the folks being consulted] and this is one reason that I couldn't advise you to do it,  the other of course you disagree with, your call, but up here at least you'd need eyes in the back of your head when the bird was out.

 

Hope this puts the 'po' away.  ;D

[Guest]

bruno, i know a guy who had a cock drop two flights in each wing two days before basketing,he thought his chances of winning had gone.he sent the bird and won 1st open north west classic club 430 mile.

 

 

That's because he knows what he is about racing pigeons, while I've said repeatedly I don't ... yet  

 

Redchequerhen's post was about a young bird, as was mine, and quite honestly I wouldn't be confident in sending a yb away like that. I try to make sure that their moult doesn't stop them getting home, and I check them over every week before I send them.

[jimmy white]

I would like advice on two things please, one pair of young birds - nestmates, have been casting flights two together at once, one of them early in the season - so wasn't sent to many races, and the nest mate cast the two end flights together, is this likely to happen as older birds?

 

The second, is we would prefer not to have prisoners but we do, and we have been cutting the flights down and letting them out. One hen managed to get up and away with 4 cut down flights on each wing. It was suggested that only one wing should be cut down, what affect would this have on the bird?

 

hi r, ch h, hope all is well,in your first paragraph ive had birds throw two flights like that and as obs no prob at all, ,,,,but did have one pigeon [in 50 odd years ] that moulted strangely every year , the flights moulted out most irregular , sometimes 3 at the end or 3 at the beginning even miss one moult one miss one moult one , never ever seen this since all its parents , family were ok even its ybs and g children , so never ever got to the bottom of that one , the bird was allways shining, i asked armand scheers, he said [bird prone to false moult] but as i say never really found out yet, im not suggesting yours are like that , in fact i would say quite normal, but this one of mine seemed to be a one off,

the second one , to cut the birds flights on the one wing is what the vets do to the parrots ,[when asked] it gives the bird more freedom than being locked in asmall cage , i did that with my parrot but left it as it moulted its new flights and has now been flying free for years now, mind hes old now and doesnt go far, but as far as the pigeons go , i would prefer[ if i couldnt break them] to" soap" their flights , and once theve been out for awhile and seen round about they usualy stay, when the soap washes off, but off course youd have to have them in the bottom nest boxes, but whichever way you choose , the bird is still having more freedom , than being stuck in the loft,,,,,,anyway wish you all the best with them [ :'(sorry didnt mean to go on so long ]