LATEST FROM PETER BRYANT

[Guest]

So are we not entilted to our oppinion Rolland and are you trying to get my posts cut out just because i think it should be handled by the officials of the combined unions who arein receipt of all the information and after all they are the ones who should be fighting our corner so why complain to Bruno (like FrankDooman) grow up!

 

Saw nothing wrong in your previous posts, Frank. Obviously neither did other moderators, as the posts are still there.  

 

And I wouldn't edit a thread that I was posting frequently on, like here.

[Guest]

Thanks Bruno nither did i but it just looked as if Rolland was complaining to you to side with him and stop me from freedom of speach now i think thats wrong i dont dissagree with what he is trying to do nor do i want to stop him i just think we need to watch what we say as any body can read this and some might jump the gun like in Cellardyke last year within hours of the story breaking one fancier in the town killed all his young birds news papers need to build it up into a frenzie to sell papers but we dont need to help them we need to be calm and let the right people talk for us iam sure if they needed our help then they will ask and then is the time to act (to many cooks spoil the broth)

[Guest]

Bruno, your answer shows these are not cyclical but extremeley rare, evidence has shown that lastyears H5n1 strain, is an exact copy of the 1918 Spanish flu. However the problem as I see it is your daliance with scientific evidence, nothing wrong in a logical world.....but politicains aren't logical, you should know that from last years escapade with DEFRA. My biggest critiscism was our lack of political nowse and people can write about the fantastic job done, I don't believe that was the case and neither do I believe at the time did the classic clubs. It's time again to pull together and I'm glad to se the clubs have and everyone has stuck behind Peter Bryant, he is the GM and he deserves that. It still however should not stop voices of concern or opinion, once people start telling people they should not voice concerns we lose balance, perspective and democracy, good leaders have no need to be dictators, they can take critiscism and carry the majority.

[Pompey Mick]

It's a pity that DEFRA is not a bit more like their Irish counterparts.  They currently have a much less stringent licence and are allowed Channel racing.

Also their risk assessment would seem to substantiate our claims that the threat of pigeons mechanically carrying the virus on their body from across the Channel is non-existant.

 

www.agriculture.gov.ie

[jimmy white]

h5n1 first reared its head in 1997in hong kong ,,,,nothing whatever to do with spanish flu 1981 pandemic,,,,differant type of flu,, i think we should read peter briants letter more carefully and abide by it,,,,,,,no rumours no scaremongering or well defeat ourselves,, ,

[Roland]

Frank if you re - read my posts I am sayin nothing of the sort.

Maybe that it caused a twinge, I know not, but that is not my intention. I am saing that for a long time now, and like Bruno says it is too late now. I tried several parties etc. when the Canadian had their hiccup. That fell on deaf ears. Likewise I am saying simplely that 'Decisions' have all ready been taken and that will be finalise in concret shortly ... then whatever they have decided will be worse if another out break hits us, or any route our pigeons may fly, and any lobbying or spouting up now is long gone past the relevant time.. Simply that! No more, and no less.

Further, I am not seeking any confrontation, and if I was I certainly wouldn't be asking ANYBODY to side with me. I am more than capable, willing, and big enoyugh and ugly enough  to hold my own. So may I suggest you untangle your knickers and rerad my posts and take in what is Actually said!

[Roland]

May I also state Frank - as I have many times on here and everywhere else, I am a fervant believer in free speech, and if I didn't agree with any Post which I didn't agree with personally I'd still defend the right of that poster to voice their oppinion(s). I know many gave their lives believing that 'Free Speech' and the right to voice it was a right. So I am dang sure I'd never eneter a party to try that. Peace go with you Frank. And my namr has only one 'L' in roland, have graded yet to be honoured with two lol.

[Guest]

Bruno, your answer shows these are not cyclical but extremeley rare, evidence has shown that lastyears H5n1 strain, is an exact copy of the 1918 Spanish flu. However the problem as I see it is your daliance with scientific evidence, nothing wrong in a logical world.....but politicains aren't logical, you should know that from last years escapade with DEFRA. My biggest critiscism was our lack of political nowse and people can write about the fantastic job done, I don't believe that was the case and neither do I believe at the time did the classic clubs. It's time again to pull together and I'm glad to se the clubs have and everyone has stuck behind Peter Bryant, he is the GM and he deserves that. It still however should not stop voices of concern or opinion, once people start telling people they should not voice concerns we lose balance, perspective and democracy, good leaders have no need to be dictators, they can take critiscism and carry the majority.

 

 

My reason for joining in this thread was to try and put some of the misinformation being posted recently to bed. Misinformation that could spread fear and alarm like the fear in the post that an 'unknown flu is coming that no-one's seen before' and posts that confuse avian flu with pandemic flu.  

 

That unknown flu is a human pandemic and pandemic flus are cyclical in that they are said to occur every thirty years or so. The worst one recorded is as you say the 1918 one, and was H1N1 not H5N1 as you infer. H5N1 was only created in Aberdeen, Scotland in 1957, and not in a wild bird, but in a farmed chicken. H1N1 spread like wildfire between humans and killed around 50 million people in  just over a year. H5N1 has been around for 50 years, has only gained the ability to jump from birds to humans in the last 10 years, and has (thankfully) killed less than 200 humans in that time. So how can these two viruses be identical?

 

Any scientific evidence I have has been exactly that, and brought to the proper authorities and always used in a responsible way e.g. to reveal misunderstandings, not to create them: e.g. (1) on how H5N1 affected pigeons, and from this 'dialiance' our vets realised that they had misinterpreted what the researches were saying (refer to the vets round-robin in November 2005); and (2) that there were different strains of H5N1 some more lethal than others as far as pigeons were concerned.. and (3) to question and cast doubt on the 'racing pigeons as mechanical carriers' theory which stops us from racing the channel. PompeyMick was the first to uncover evidence on the DEFRA website and reported that to Peter Bryant, and I had a paper on the 'mechanical carriers' experiment, published in German translated, and sent on to Peter Bryant, and Gordon Chalmers, for the 14th December meeting with DEFRA.

 

As I said previously, pigeonbasics members have been working with others, not working against them. The information was collected for that purpose and a sticky thread created so that it is alawys readily available for all that need it. Judging by the number of views, its well used.

 

 

 

 

 

 

[jimmy white]

must agree with bruno on that one,, there is a thread for this and for the  ,,,,,,facts

[Guest]

I am saing that for a long time now, and like Bruno says it is too late now. I tried several parties etc. when the Canadian had their hiccup. That fell on deaf ears. Likewise I am saying simplely that 'Decisions' have all ready been taken and that will be finalise in concret shortly ... then whatever they have decided will be worse if another out break hits us, or any route our pigeons may fly, and any lobbying or spouting up now is long gone past the relevant time..  

 

Roland I've cut your original reply to Frank down, to show clearly the bit I'm picking up on.

 

I think it is never too late Roland. My point was that I felt the best time to act was August 2005 when we knew what was in the AI Contingency plan, BEFORE it was suddenly put into practice later that year and cancelled all the Shows.

 

Having read your post tho, I now realise you are 100% correct in what you say that the Canadian 2004 AI outbreak was the best time. Slaughtering racing pigeons  was on the cards over there, so could quite easily have been on the cards over here too. Unfortunately, probably like most UK fanciers, I didn't know about this outbreak, first hearing about it summer 2005 when Hyacinth posted up detail on it here on the forum.

 

My last point is International co-operation. If our governments' thinking is out-of-step with other countries or the best scientific evidence available, then I think we shouldn't be rolling-over and accepting it, as was definitely the case in years gone by. And that is where, in my opinion, the current team led by Peter Bryant appear to be breaking new ground. They don't appear to be there to be told what we are going to be doing by the Government. They appear to be negotiating a case based on knowledge: of what other countries are doing and what the scientific evidence is saying. Information that is being passed to the team from many quarters, including members of this website.

 

 

 

[Guest]

Roland  i have no wish to fall out with you either but sometime i think that some fanciers might take fright when people start talking about stock pileing flu drugs i aggree that we proberbly havent done nearly enough to try and stop bieng overrun by officaldom but thats pigeon men for you most just cant be bothered then the old saying comes in I ONLY WANT TO RACE MY BIRDS but if they cant they will ask why did SOMEONE not do something i like you will get up off my a--- and try and help if necesary so maybe we aggree on the end result but have different ways to get there

[Roland]

Never in doubt Frank.

I will admit though that when I write of the cuff I do tend to come over a bit strong, and over emphasise too. - When I set mye stool out and take time, and use a bit of forethought I ain't too bad. Worse when I rabbit off after a touch of the ole amber nectar lol.

One only has to look at the 'Topics' and the Views total. Obviously mine are normally way down on others, so I can't come over well lol.

Still don't care much really lol.

[Guest]

Jimmy, just read your post. Spannish flu of 1918 is an exact replica of H5N1 today. In the US they have a lab that holds samples in secure areas of all known viruses. They have the Spannish Flu virus and hit has the exact same signature. I've no idea why you think this is not the case. Bruno just raead your post, I reiterate Spannish flu was the exact same starin as today's

[Guest]

I know thats the ones i start to read and get fed up lol ps dont stop at least give us the chance to bin them

[Roland]

Lol,

[Guest]

Jimmy, just read your post. Spannish flu of 1918 is an exact replica of H5N1 today. In the US they have a lab that holds samples in secure areas of all known viruses. They have the Spannish Flu virus and hit has the exact same signature. I've no idea why you think this is not the case. Bruno just raead your post, I reiterate Spannish flu was the exact same starin as today's

 

We have quite a lot about the 1918 outbreak on the main avian flu board. Bill Bennie from Canada was the first to post up on it. There was research in 3 countries during 2004 and 2005, and samples included human tissues preserved from the time and held in London, and probably for me the most frightful, from an 80 year old burial ... in the Alaskan permafrost ... of an Inuit woman . Frightening to think that any viral particles can survive 80 years’ deep freezing.

 

There is a comprehensive article on it in Wikipedia. This is the shortest extract taken from it, which details both H5N1 of current concern, H1N1 of 1918, and their important differences.

 

Recent research of Taubenberger et al has suggested that the 1918 virus, like H5N1, could have arisen directly from an avian influenza virus.  However, researchers at University of Virginia and Australian National University have suggested that there may be an alternative interpretation of the data used in the Taubenberger et al. paper. Taubenberger et al responded to these letters and defended their original interpretation.

 

Other research by Tumpey and colleagues who reconstructed the H1N1 virus of 1918 came to the conclusion that it is was most notably the polymerase genes and the HA and NA genes that caused the extreme virulence of this virus. The sequences of the polymerase proteins (PA, PB1, and PB2) of the 1918 virus and subsequent human viruses differ by only 10 amino acids from the avian influenza viruses. Viruses with seven of the ten amino acids in the human influenza locations have already been identified in currently circulating H5N1. This has led some researchers to suggest that other mutations may surface and make the H5N1 virus capable of human-to-human transmission. Another important factor is the change of the HA protein to a binding preference for alpha 2,6 sialic acid (the major form in the human respiratory tract). In avian virus the HA protein preferentially binds to alpha 2,3 sialic acid, which is the major form in the avian enteric tract. It has been shown that only a single amino acid change can result in the change of this binding preference. Altogether, only a handful of mutations may need to take place in order for H5N1 avian flu to become a pandemic virus like the one of 1918. However it is important to note that likelihood of mutation does not indicate the likelihood for the evolution of such a strain; since some of the necessary mutations may be constrained by stabilizing selection.

 

Full article at:

 

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Spanish_flu