Pigeons and space.

[paul l]

So all, we have a wire cage 3foot 6inches wide, by 6 foot long and 8 foot high. Then adjoining it we have some boxes 12 inches deep for the birds to sit in enclosed, which is adjacent to another foot square of wire. My 16 birds are Happy… why the wired frame, just so we have control of them. Like wise we also have replicates 10 foot high and 24 foot long! Then we have 50 Rabbit hutches like nest boxes that are 2foot long where one half is just wire mesh, whilst the other is just a box to shelter the birds from the elements… So how high and long can we stack these?

  Now Sammy and co… just where does the problem lie? Air circulation is paramount. The parimeter is no mor than to contain the birds for easy managerment!

As you say Pigeon Scout ... then by the same token as Natural are beat W/Hrs' even on the sprints and especially from 300 miles upward I'd tend to take natural as the better proposition. But this isn't really the site topic here so We'll have to make another thread I guess lol.

 

 

 

                      any pics mate

 

 

 

[Ronnie]

Got to agree with roland on this one its all about airflow and ventilation.Likewise with the youngbirds being exposed to germs early to create a good imune system.Dont get me wrong i dont think you could pack em so tight as they cant move but pigeons do group together and are very touchy feely animals that love close interaction and contact with others of there own flock.

[Guest]

Still think we may be confusing two topics, air space per bird in cubic metres (Length x Breadth x Height) and physical space for each bird.

 

Little benefit if the bird has plenty of air space, but limited physical space,             i.e. it needs to breath in to get into the space left by the birds above below and either side of it.        

 

Just the same as the hen and her nest box. Spends 18 hours a day sitting, so don't expect her to sit there too when its her spell off during the day, she needs another physical space as far from her box as possible, a perch in an aviary or in another section.

 

On ferals / rock doves and physical space: same applies, when the colony gets too big, there's breakaways looking for a better less-crowded spot for them. And as for disease-sharing between ferals and homing pigeons, well horses for courses, ferals are adapted to meet challenges you would expect to find in their  natural home - out in the wild. Homing pigeons are adapted to meet the limited challenges in their natural home, the loft and garden, and as we know sometimes they can't meet the challenges in a strange loft, or from a strange pigeon in their own loft, or when they have been AWOL in the wild for a few days. Thats why we practice quarantine and isolation, correctly so, in my opinion.

 

 

[Tony C]

Roland, I would like to hear your views on the cause of flyaways.

 

Thanks.

[Roland]

Maybe Bruno, but I doubt it as I have never ever seen a colony of pigeons that didn't attract and expand. Only ever got bigger till culled or removed.

[Guest]

Sammy Wrote

and that is why feral pigeons carry every known disease and they dont have to fly home at top speeds maybe if there was not as many ferals about then we would not have as much problems with hawks and or pigeons would not be reffered to as rats with wings ,however its your choice how many pigeons YOU keep in a small confined space

Ferals eh! If one young one ever comes into your Loft Sammy, let it in! Make your Water yella  and stella, then send it up the road with your y/ b's, yours will always be behind! Hawks have a job catching street wise pigeons. Flying rats by Livingstone had nothing to do with ferals etc. Just a slant to clear Trafalger out. Mind he has always been very anti pigeons.

The best anti dope for any bird is - like a jab - is to catch a dose.(That is innoculations work)

Many flyers encourage y/b's to get infected and the sooner the better. Sooner mended and raced. And the NUMBERS in any vacinity has nothing to do with Numbers, but how cleanse your loft and feeding and water habits are! Water is a main carrier... so oe places after feed and gri and removes. Birds have to be content, that is why generally speaking a Natural contented bird beats Widowerhood etc. on hard and distance races. Especially the hens. Birds have to be cont and happy and feeling safe or you will never break one in. Birds love and feel safe in numbers!

Still every one to their own.

dont think so roland were i work the sparrow hawk and the perigrine are there every day well especially the sparrow hawk this past week i have noticed it is sitting on top of the roof at grey dark  waiting on the ferals comming out and as soon as they are making a beline it is catching them i think these birds are quick learners as there dont seem to be any crows about at this time in the morning so they get to eat withoput being mob by crows who steal the carcass for themselves ,and no my loft is not sqeaky clean infact just cleaned out young hens section today my perches are like boxes 1 foot sqaure with grids on them all there was that much droppings under them they were lifting up ,roland was not having a pop at you i strive to keep my pigeons in perfect health my way as i see fit and i would rather go into a loft were you have to look to find pigeons in rather than fall over the top of them ,cheers roland keep up the posts

 

[Roland]

Fly aways eh! I believe that that is just an unexplain phenolemon that happens from time to time. The nearest belief I have in this regard is that for breeding purposes nature lends a han. Lion etc. take over a pride... cull the young and bring the al important fresh blood in that is needed. The Mubuna fish, the Males stay and the females move on and are courted and spawned with fresh blood. Nature doesn't allow for any close mating. We do, and that I believe is thge single most reason for 'Poor homing' etc. Yes ok the first may throw... but to do that proper is to saturate a certain blood / relation and then bring in the out crosses. Too many don't understand that. And a pigeon, like any thing else can't improve on the fundemental basic. Only deteriate. Hence the need for out crossing.

[pigeonscout]

Got to agree with roland on this one its all about airflow and ventilation.Likewise with the youngbirds being exposed to germs early to create a good imune system.

 

 

Where does it say that keeping birds in on clean conditions makes a good immune system?

Will this build an immune system that will kills Worms Canker and Coccidiosis? I don't think so.

[Roland]

Cocci is normally down to a laspe in management ... the other two aren't a neccessary to deal with... have birds in my loft where the person I had them off has never treated for either ... and I seldom do ... just when from time to time I listen and am persuade to... Don't know why really either. So yes there do and are immuned then!

[Guest]

Think there's a general misunderstanding about a young bird and its immune system.

 

It doesn't need or want to be exposed by us to germs 'to build it up'. The youngster, while still in the egg, inherits the chemical knowledge of how to beat off eveything its mum was challenged with (and by definition its grannie too); and soon after hatching, when it takes its first cropful of milk from either parent, gets another selection of antibodies ('chemical soldiers') including against paramyxo (created to challenge the vaccination) and probably some live trich & stuff as well as some dead stuff too, for a wee bit practice on, nature's way.