loft cleaning

[deeman]

hi all

 

how often should you clean out loft once a day twice a day or what

also how often should you disinfect loft

 

ps have kilpatrick black minerals & beyers grit with redstone how much & how often should i give to birds all tips appreciated

[THE FIFER]

clean out every day is best, also grit etc should be available all the time, and changed often, dont give to much grit etc so to have it lying for days just give enough so it is changed daily as it collects dust etc.

[jimmy white]

agree with fifer, but would maybe add ,just to give a small amount of black minerals,[kilpatricks] as this tends to draw the dampness, and when damp, can have a detrimental   use, as can be a haven for oocysts,  if left lying, same as the grit.

as far as cleaning its better if you can do this daily as it only takes a few minutes really, and .if left becomes a big job.i use the empty household plastic spray containers filled with a strong solution of vircon  s  , and spray this around the loft freely , it dries very quickly this way , there are many other good disenfectants, but after receiving some info from preston powerblast, ive found that virkon s is the daddy of them all,, all the best jimmy

[snowy]

loft cleaning! wow just read my mind! thats answered my question. thanks "VIRKON S" i was just about to ask, is normal bleach in a spray bottle good enough or jeys fluid or disinfectent, but i suppose not?

[jimmy white]

these things would be ok snowy but  bleach and jeyes fluid would have to be bone dry when you get the birds in ,as if it were still damp would it would actually burn there feet , but after reading the litratire on virkon s, would have no hesitation recommending thi

 p.s  hope the 2 latebreds are doing well [ the 2 sirs]

[PIGEON_MAN]

PERSONALLY I DO NOT THINK IT MAKES ANY DIFFERENCE AT ALL  WHEN YOU CLEAN THE LOFT OUT.I HAVE A SECTION WITH 12 WIDOWHOOD COCKS IN AND I CLEANED THEM OUT EVERY MORNING AND EVERY NIGHT WHEN THEY WERE OUT FOR EXERCISE WHERE AS MY YOUNG BIRDS HAVE NEVER BEEN CLEANED OUT SINCE I PUT THEM ON DARKNESS AT THE BEGINNING OF THE YEAR.

[jimmy white]

no offence meant pigeon man,  but i personally would not give this advice to a beginner, i think deep litter is ok if your a bit experienced, but this has to be utterly bone dry, any dampness at all would cause problems,the droppings alone under the perches would give off a lot of ammonia, which would rise to the birds above , breathing it in, i understand what your saying , that this could possibly build the birds immune system, but cannot see that this thick layer of droppings would do any good.i myself have a deep litter system, this is mainly due to dissability, but it is shavings  , sprayed every day, raked every day, and perches and boxes scraped and sprayed every day and the worst of it binned every day and i try and change it as often as possible, but one thing it is bone dry, as i said pigeon man no offence is meant, and this is only my opinion   ,  jimmy

[PIGEON_MAN]

AS YOU SAY JIMMY THE LOFT MOST CERTAINLY AS TO BE BONE DRY I THINK THIS IS VERY IMPORTANT ANY WAY IF YOU USE DEEP LITTER OR NOT.I CERTAINLY DONT TAKE OFFENCE IN FACT I LOVE TO READ YOUR POSTINGS IN SOME WAYS YOU REMIND ME OF MY LATE GRANDFATHER I USED TO SIT AND LISTEN TO HIM FOR HOURS TELLING PIGEON STORIES E.T.C.  

[showman]

This is what keeping pigeon is all about DEEMAN. Many ways of doing things, and at the end of the day....who is right, and who is wrong? Agree with Jimmy White, that you probably are best cleaning the loft regularly, until such times enough knowledge has been gained to allow you to try a deep litter system. Hopefully not to complicate things in your mind, Pigeon Man has a point in what he is saying, but I would suggest he has the experience to know if a deep litter system will work or not. My experience is that a good deep litter system depends on 2 factors :  climatic conditions and the design of loft. Not knowing either of these, I would tend to clean regularly rather than take a chance on deep litter. Again, as Jimmy White has said.....only my opinion !!!!!

[deeman]

hi all thanks for all the advice much appreciated especially about grit & minerals as i was tending to leave to much out

i clean out morning & night it's just that someone told me it was a bit much which could go along with some advice depending on experience.

i'll stick to twice dailly gets me & birds into a routine

 

jimmy what is vircon s & where do i get some

[Guest speckled]

Well i clean out every day,as this time of year with the pigeons going thought that moult,the feathers & scale, can cause a prob with ya breathing, if ya leave then to long,so if it affects you, what affect will it have on the pigeons.Good venterlation this time off year is a must,As for the mineral grit ect i agree with the rest.I was told that as well Deeman,but ya birds need to build up there immunie stsytem,so sometimes it dont hurt to leave for a few day.I also use a spray bottle to spray the loft out with, but i use a house hold consentrated disinfectant called "IBCOL" kills 99% of bacteria including E Coli, Salmonella,& Listera.Once a month  if the weathers fine i will get the old fashioned "Blow Tourch " out, & give the loft the one through better to be safe than sorry ah.Speckled

[Guest]

Well there you go Jimmy, you remind someone of their grandpa!  ;D  And that someone is probably around 60.  ;D ;D

 

Remember I used to have moustache and beard until workmates started calling me Paw Broon (after the Broons characters). Didn't mind much until the penny dropped - Paw Broon disnae have a beard!  >  But Grandpa Broon hiz.  :'(

 

Needless to say beard came off next day. Skin on my face has never recovered though.  

 

 

 

 

[Guest]

Deeman, I think your cleaning chores will be decided by daylight hours and the time you have available to attend the birds.

 

Just now, twice a day seems reasonable as it fits in with 'summer' routine of getting birds out twice a day.

 

Come winter's short daylight hours though, I doubt you'll manage a daily clean... it'll probably be just once a week.

 

Provided the areas you want to put a litter down are dry and the loft is not affected by dampness, you could start experimenting now with 'small' areas. It also takes a while (6 months) to get a deep litter system working properly and as Jimmy says, you've got to have a good 'nose' so that you instantly pick up any smell that shouldn't be there - ammonia for one, and anything 'unpleasant' for another. By unpleasant I mean that anything dry will soak up natural moisture from the atmosphere and if your mix isn't right, it'll bloody stink.

 

And Jimmy is right about the work involved. Between getting the right mix, daily raking, howking out feathers and the like, it's quite a job. But worth it, in my opinion.

 

As for perches and nest boxes, I continue my litter into them, so that anything that 'drops' does so onto dry litter. And I have a dry disinfectant mixed in too - Stalosan F.

 

So while you speak of keeping the loft clean, perhaps keeping a hygienic loft environment is a more appropriate aim.  

[rlez]

hi all

 

how often should you clean out loft once a day twice a day or what

also how often should you disinfect loft

 

ps have kilpatrick black minerals & beyers grit with redstone how much & how often should i give to birds all tips appreciated

 

what a good question,its down to the individual i think with all the lofts that are closed in with no ventilation and spraying this and that cant be good for the birds.air change within the loft is number one.if we keep on treating for this and that the birds need to build up their own immune system.in this day were we have double glazing,cental heating so many are comming down with breathing problems in the days i can remember going to bed with an old army coat on top of my blanket.getting back to your question,deep litter is ok but only if the ventilation is ok.

[pigeon]

i clean out at least 3times a day morning dinner and tea time i hate 2 c a dirty loft

 

all the best lads

[THE FIFER]

all good reading, i use bleach and water in a spray bottle ,but as jimmy said be careful, if floors ar wet and cocks brush their tails they get in some mess feathers just go too powder, so be carefull, i use strong garlic water in the bath and sometimes spray the loft, keeps birds clean try it in ur bath no lice on birds.

[Guest shadow]

There are many ways to success, find a system that suits you and your time available and your birds if possible stick to a routine as pigeons are more content when they are kept to a routine eg .  cleaning out and feeding at the same time every day. I personally clean out twice a day and feed once per day in the afternoon.  They only get tit bit after their morning fly and main feed after their evening exercise. Good luck  

 

fly hard fly fair

[deeman]

don't know anything about litter systems wouldn't know where to start as i am new to this game can see the problems with daylight hours as i am normally away to work by 6.30am & somtimes not back till 5.30-6.30pm so will just have to get the wife to clean out & feed them

[Guest Doostalker]

Good luck to you if you have a wife that wil clean out and feed them! My wife has done both on plenty of occasions when I have not been able, but in speaking with lots of other fanciers, this seems to be the exception and not the rule. That's why being a member of a club and helping others is paramount in this sport, because if you do you will always get a favour returned.

 

It is best to remember that for every fancier there is a different management system. You should work out what suits you and stick with it. Always make sure that the system manages the birds and the birds do not manage the system, and therefore you. Make time for other things too.

[showman]

Terrific advice from Doostalker, Deeman. Take note ....especially the second paragraph. Agree with this 100%.

Paul.

[Guest]

Hi Rose, interested to know what your white powder is.  

 

The grid floor seems quite popular too. Wondered if there was any 'side effects' of having a metal grid in the loft. Thinking of (1) birds' feet and (2) condensation. What was your experience there?

 

Also, how often did you need to clean out under the grid? And was it a bin-bag job?

[Guest Doostalker]

Rose/Bruno, I think you will find the white powder is Blanco or floor whitening. I use it too and it dries up the droppings really well. I think it is more used by the showmen and less so by the racing fraternity.

 

Ideally I would do the same as Rose and use grills on the floor, but I think you might have to set out constructing your loft with that in mind.

 

I remember reading a loft report in the Pictorial, where the loft was on pillars about 10 feet in the air, and the droppings fell through the grilled floor into the area below. This was cleaned out once a year with a tractor blade! Seems the nearest thing to perfect to me apart from using the conveyor belt system many of the Belgian fanciers use. If I win the Lottery I might get that!!

[Guest]

Just wanted to check, because if you are using floor white, then you are paying £1 a kg for crushed limestone (calcium carbonate, agricultural lime, which your local granary will probably stock) which retails at £4 for 25kg.

 

Used bags of the stuff to get my mix working, and also found it was good for the slabs on the garden path / patio to keep snails and slugs at bay.

[Guest Doostalker]

Hi Bruno. I know what you mean. I buy mine in 25kg bags at £7 and think this is a lot to pay for what it is. Having no local granary I will probably stick with my present supplier though.

 

However I note with interest your alternative uses for it. Must tell my wife about that as she is always going on about the slugs we have in the garden. She uses salt to get rid of them and that is no cheap method. Better than pellets though, as I think other creatures can pick these up.

 

Just being nosey, but what mix are you referring to?

 

Rose, we were looking at a video of one of the conveyor belt systems in a Belgian loft and my wife said that she though it was a great idea and why didn't I look at something like that. So I did, and told her the likely cost.....she then suggested that I make one for myself out of a Meccano set.... :D

[Guest]

Doostalker, the mix I was referring to was deep litter for the loft (not for the path!   ).

Keeping to the path, my wife was using the same salt 'remedy' for slugs and snails, and like yourself between wild birds in the garden and pigeons in the loft I am very reluctant to put down anything which might harm them. Interesting snippet on slugs / snails - even more expensive than salt I think, is coffee. Mad scientists found that a weak spray keeps them away but stonger mix makes them explode. Hope the local yobs don't find out about exploding snails though.  ;D  And of course spraying coffee is going to stain everything too.  

 

Back to the litter: started with sharp sand, just to keep things dry and rake off daily. Didn't like it (smelled wrong) and suspicious of its storage prior to bagging for Homebase - rodent excreta? etc. So did a bit of search on the web for lime. Had almost fallen for Old Hand's slaked lime & sharp sand deep litter until I found out what slaked lime was and the health & safety notes attached to it - steer well clear of calcium hydroxite 'hot agricultural lime' - it burns on contact and reacts 'violently' when water gets at it.  >

 

So agricultural lime got the thumbs up, mindful the dust could irritate eyes and throat (thats why floor white says 'brush in'). Also used in industry to 'scrub' noxious gases and in sewage to 'clump up ra solid matter'. But at times, I got ammonia from it (don't know how, I am not a chemist but thought it may be absorbing water vapour from the air?) in the oddest of places - usually in the middle of the floor rather than under perches as you might expect. So after using about 4 x 25kg bags of the stuff over 3/4 months, I started looking around for something else and came across Stalosan which the makers said could be used in deep litter, so added that by the handful, on a weekly basis, or when there was anything other than a 'neutral' smell. Reckon there's 3 x 5kg bags of that in there too, and now everything is being reduced to a reddish-brown fine powder, although when I rake it every day I can see the lime dust - clouds of it - before it gets sucked out by the ventilation.