Starting a family

[Roland]

I stated earlier that true long lasting great families of pigeons must be built around winning pigeons from 600, 700 and 800 miles. I have been giving this a great deal of thought, and I think most would agree with that. This of course does not mean that all pigeons in one’s loft must fly these distances or that pigeons that win at 200-450 miles and get lost at 500-700 miles cannot be great pigeons, just not the right type to build an entire family around. Since it is impractical and in all likelihood foolhardy to ship all our good combine winning pigeons to these extreme distances, the question becomes, how do we identify these great performers at 600-800 miles without throwing the baby out with the bath water. I think the key may be a specialty long distance club where the members would keep a separate group of birds with the sole purpose in mind of testing them at the extreme distances on a regular basis to try and identify those few key foundation breeders. Anyone have any thoughts on this idea?

I often believe when I see how the greats blended the 'Families' and just how much distance birds are incorporated, that it has been widely acknowledged that these birds are mainly the very essence of any improvement in pigeon terms.

Therefore it stands to reason that these birds which can only fly competitively from 350 to 400 miles are lacking the original long distance qualities that they're predecessors once possessed. The ability to fly the ultimate longer distances. 6 to 800 miles or even 1000 miles! And because this is advised has been proven correct many many times, the 500's are merely a sprint.

I also say that any and all good Strains / Families, regardless of the fanciers preference to what distance he prefers, also needs to proven ‘Distance Blood’ to form one.

For instance remember the great distance champions of say Jim Biss also, won sprint races likes of 'Natrix' from 50 miles. Indeed Natrix did it every year for 3/4 years AFTER his great exploits at the distance.

 

[Roland]

On a further note, reading exerpts from a book written by Jerome J. Platt, a retired pigeoneer of the US military and published in the July 15th R.P. Digest.

 

The military certainly has no interest in long distance homing. Their purpose is to get messages from the front or just behind enemy lines to mobile lofts just a few miles away. Certainly rarely if ever over 100 miles. This is what caugt my eye.

 

"Another important event in the company's history was the birth of our first pigeon. A silver cock and a blue hen donated to the army by Roland D. Birch of Salem, OR hatched a healthy baby. These birds were of a breeding line developed in Oregon and called "Old Line" strain. Later we discovered the "Old Line" strain of birds could outfly most any of the strains developed in other parts of the country. It was the result of "survival of the fittest" in Oregon's perpetual rain and fog along the coast.

 

Mr. Ralph E. Warren of Portland Ore is credited with the origin of the "Old Line" strain of homing pigeons. He started with two pairs of birds in 1908 and carefully selected his breeders for succeeding generatiions from birds THAT HAD FLOWN FROM 500 MILES AT LEAST TWICE. As recently as 1971, I talked with Ed Johnson, a buddy from the 281st Signal Pigeon Company days, and he told me the "old Line" strain was still winning races in the Portland club."

 

So the military, intersted in "sprint" flights only, found their best birds came from a family with a mandatory performance testing standard of a minimum of two 500 mile races in the mountains of the west coast of North America.

[Guest cloudview]

there,s   only  one  way   to  do  it  buy   winning  bloodlines  off  national  winning  lofts  who   suceed  from  600  plus  miles regularly   and  send  them as and  when  ready

[carlsberg]

how many loft's in england succeed regulary at 600mls not many if you want true distance bird's just go to scotland because if you fly a racepoint like say messac for me it is 299mls but for some fanciers in scotland it is 500 mls you see some lofts saying they won bergerac to me 586mls to them it is only just over 300 mls so if you want to start a family of true distance birds ask the scottish fanciers for help in aquiring a family to start with

[Guest chrisss]

a bit off topic but thanks to defra not many people are flying any distance [unless you go north?]

[jimmy white]

i must agree with rolands postings,, apart from more fanciers taking up sprint racing due to the avian flu scares in recent years,,, these pigeons that are capable of flying 15 hours on the wing , and even carrying on  the next day,, are really special pigeons ,,,but i have also seen these same pigeons win at 280 miles , which were put in as trainers [but found this to be a great sign ,winning their third race of the seson ,,,then ready for 5-600 miles , but as for clubs for this we have this in scot ,,in fact two clubs ,, but in my opinion not only  the birds should be bred for the job,, more importantly they should be conditioned for the job,,ive seen so many fanciers say that particular bird is no good at 5-600 mile ,,,when its had about 10 races previous to the big one ,, this is not fair to the pigeon and no way to find out if their any good at the distance,, in my opinion , the bird must be bred for the job, the experience [age] for the job and conditioned for the job , then found out if its capable for the job, and as roland says also there are birds that can do 500 mile but not the 600 mile , maybe me being biased but i think the best distance pigeons come from scotland or northern ireland ,as these are very difficult routes for pigeons ,, only my opinion  

[Michael J Burden]

Roland I don't agree with you on most points.

There are good distance birds out there, in fact every where at the moment. The trick is to reconize one and aquire it and send the ybs to those races you dream to do well at.

At one of Brian Longs sales this year the birds were given away! I got a grandson of the Red Barcelona for 50 quid and a Stoffle hen for 50 quid too. I am breeding from them and there will be no excuses for the ybs. At one year old they have at least to fly 400 miles race in a national event, then a 560 miles race or a 674 miles race.

 

At Blackpool I got a yearling cock of Mike Youngs breed for 25 quid.

My friend has a grizzle hen he uses as a feeder, I did some enquiries and found out it was bred by Jim Emerton, and is his family crossed with Jim Donaldsons Remis girl lines. She is now at my loft and cost me nothing.

 

Their ybs too will get the same treatment as above.

 

So to conclude apart from my own distance birds I have two pairs for a total of 125 quid. All it needs is the racing man to do his part.

 

The NFC or BICC are already in place to fulfil your racing question.

[Guest j.bamling]

the way things are with this Defra thing and Bird Flu most likely going to flair up every year not to mention Foot & Mouth again, building a family of Long Distance birds might not be the best thing to do ... For one thing we might not get any channel racing you know what the French are like ? then if the long distance birds are not getting tested it is impossible to make a good winning family

i know a lot of lads in our federation etc have parted with a lot of distance birds

[Merlin]

Would think its somewhat easier to get a distance bird to perform at sprint rather than vice/versa,its already proven to have heart,conditioning then being done by fancier,with distance racing its more to do with bird,though the right system has also to be in place,bird has to have qualities like tenacity,the spirit to keep going regardless,heart,the birds with these qualities are what makes best distance performers regardless of strain name. The hardest road in my opinion on this side of the World has got to be the North Road and birds flying into the S/S.W of Ireland and also S/S.W of Wales from North Rd racepoints at the distance have got to have these qualities in abundance, Again only  my opinion.

[Michael J Burden]

Merlin,

they sound hard places for Norh roaders but I think warm head winds against wet cold NE winds are the most difficult for a pigeon.

SW winds usually mean good weather.

[Guest Paulo]

the way things are with this Defra thing and Bird Flu most likely going to flair up every year not to mention Foot & Mouth again, building a family of Long Distance birds might not be the best thing to do ... For one thing we might not get any channel racing you know what the French are like ? then if the long distance birds are not getting tested it is impossible to make a good winning family

i know a lot of lads in our federation etc have parted with a lot of distance birds

 

shame as well cause distance racing is real mens racing

[Guest]

I don't agree that you can buy in a distance family and succeed with them. Distance racing IMO is 50% fancier 50% pigeon, therefore with the best 600 milers in the world but a fancier that cannot fly a kite, what chance success???

 

Have also found over the years the best 600 mile families are "creatures of habit" the fancier treats the birds the same year in year out therefore they become used to it and are contented thru the generations. Then along comes Joe Public and buys some, but treats them totally different with no success.

[Roland]

Roland I don't agree with you on most points.

There are good distance birds out there, in fact every where at the moment. The trick is to reconize one and aquire it and send the ybs to those races you dream to do well at.

At one of Brian Longs sales this year the birds were given away! I got a grandson of the Red Barcelona for 50 quid and a Stoffle hen for 50 quid too. I am breeding from them and there will be no excuses for the ybs. At one year old they have at least to fly 400 miles race in a national event, then a 560 miles race or a 674 miles race.

 

At Blackpool I got a yearling cock of Mike Youngs breed for 25 quid.

My friend has a grizzle hen he uses as a feeder, I did some enquiries and found out it was bred by Jim Emerton, and is his family crossed with Jim Donaldsons Remis girl lines. She is now at my loft and cost me nothing.

 

Their ybs too will get the same treatment as above.

 

So to conclude apart from my own distance birds I have two pairs for a total of 125 quid. All it needs is the racing man to do his part.

 

The NFC or BICC are already in place to fulfil your racing question.

 

And your point being?

 

[Roland]

I once paid £80 for 12 ... got ten, from a lovely ole boy in Scarborough, Mickb,  these fly any and all distances ... well did as I am phrasing them out.... and only ever had other people 'Cast Offs' before and since / freebies infact. I have always sent these as far as I could, and have always had some left for the next season ... eveing winning some.... But a consistant family I've never had, and why, well simply one swallow won't make a summer, and the foundations are bluntly not good enough.

Everyone has, and has had some great birds in their loft... But very few have birds where you can count on them nigh before being born. P.s. Good luck with your new arrivals.

I also believe  this thread was 'Starting a family'. and certainly nota quick fix to a hit and miss regime.

[Michael J Burden]

You have answered your own question without realising it Roland,

The distance family as you call it don't exist where you know the eggs are good. Not many 'ACE' birds are born which ever distance birds you have. The trick is to find one the only way is to breed as many as you can handle and start looking for them. The basket is the way to find them.

[Merlin]

Im sure like all Good distance birds Rec Barcelona is just one of the many who set some kind of legacy regarding himself,likewise I am sure he produced many C/Sons,how many has got his capabilities,and how many would ever show his ability,this being the same for all named birds, methinks it might be done a lot easier if a fancier concentrated on his own birds using distance flying methods,each year selecting and concentrating on ones showing best after longest time on wing,and possibly using established distance crosses on occassions, history has taught me that all distance families have been created in this manner  I really beleive  a distance family can be built from within with these methods,they already have ingrained two very important things,tried and tested on hard races,enviroment,and love of home bred in them.

Once again its my opinion only.