Myths with no Credence.

[Roland]

Myths with no Credence.

Let's have a reality check on some silliness often spouted with no substance whatsoever. Indeed, when one puts a little fore thought to many, they are rather stupid.

I'll start of with some pet hates I hear often repeated and I just can't believe that anyone can repeat, let alone believe. Sure it is often the norm, so persons take it as read, especially novices and new comers. Strangely also it is most (95%) of the ones doing a 'One Swallow summer' that spout the crap. A wise fancier in canada that grew up with the Jansennes etc. states a very simple truth when he says 'You usually see newcomers shine, win well withn 3 years if they are ever going to be any good as fanciers"! Because they smile and let crap scenarios fall to the ground and pay no attention to them. So lets get real on some of them

 

Liberation usual moans:

What time did the transporter set off?  Answer: In, plenty of time … unless of course a break down.

Did the birds get time for a drink? It was placed before them in plenty of time!

Was they Fed watered (Fed) Answer: As above.

Was there another Fed nearby? Most likely, there are more than a few close MOST weeks! AND 2/3 from the same site at least every week.

Did the birds Clear / Clash? Answer: EER umm er weer…  Birds going different directions fly at different heights for starters, if not then they may well join up of course if going Samish way (Drag). But mostly they DO have break every week or there would never be a result!

Most Race controllers / liberators have their’ birds, on the transporter and their’ and your, plus and the sport at large interests at heart. So let’s get real here, of course they are doing their humanly utmost to ensure the best for ALL the birds … s**t happens, that’s why there are sewage.

I lost my 90% of my race team (Old birds) this season in one race. Only 6 even now in Fed / Amalg… who’s fault? Mine. I knew that it was going to be rough week - end. In fact I made arrangements, in the week, to go out that Saturday night as was certain it would be held over that week – end, indeed to possibly the mid week. They went up at 11 for a nigh 500 miler. Never a moan from me, means another 2 seasons possiblely, to get up to strength again. Was actually giving my new strains their chance as 2 year olds.

 

Certain strains eat more / differently:

They won’t eat certain corn. They need feeding heavy and racing hard etc.

Answer: Pigeons are flipping pigeons… some individuals vary of course as every creature does. But they like the same feed and water.

They like the Freedom, and the safety feeling of their’ loft.

They all like their’ own PERCH full stop.

 

Over crowding the biggest lame crutch of all… they thrive on company, and only need pecking room, the more the merrier. OK diseases may spread quickly and rife… But that is a good thing also for the immune system.

Needs: Good Air flow, and dryness.

Loft needs to combat the varying climate overnight and the seasons. I.e. just look to the droppings at different times of day / night etc. I.e. looser droppings earlier in Morning / day and firmer droppings later.

 

Breaking points: Just a better feeling for the fancier! It does no harm as long as the birds are getting mileage under their’ wings. How much and when is of course up to the manager …

Personally I believe the more directions trained the better, and certainly find it better when training opposite direction for coming race. I feel it makes their ‘homing Instincts or whatever that bit sharper.

I fly both routes, and find no difference whatsoever when swapping their route / Race points. Y/b I tend to swap their races points regularly as I feel this give them the ‘Honing’ of their ability and gives them greater confidence. Of course this again is a whim, and probably holds no credence.

Have many more, but would love others to put some up.

 

[ChrisMaidment08]

yep fanciers who no everything no nothing learn nothing  hows that one i hear that all the time i know everything and you dont

[Roland]

know what you mean lol.

 

hated by some, for the truth hurts. Loved by many who like the truth though...

I never get into trouble for fibbing ... get loads though for telling the truth lol ;D ;D

[DOVEScot]

I never get into trouble for fibbing ... get loads though for telling the truth lol ;D ;D

 

Snap!!!

[ChrisMaidment08]

8) 8) 8) ;D ;D ;D ;)

[Guest peter.j]

the dirty dozen lol 8) 8) 8) 8)

[Roland]

Any more? ! I have few, so if one thinks about the reality I'd bet you all there are a lot more.

May from time to time post them afterthey have been put up in a topic eh. ;D

[Guest peter.j]

a classic ive heard is ;i wouldnt have pigeons they breed rats ; when in reality just in case your daft and dont know lol rats breed rats  ;D ;D ;D

[OLDYELLOW]

hmmmmmmmmmmm now lets see where did the Bird Flue Virus start ?      overcrowded bird market !!!!!!!!!       one loft race virus struck ? wonder how many birds per foot was in there

[Roland]

Jumping birds:  A good few fanciers I know , and three are the best in this area, never went / go above 20 miles. Gary Edmunds, as JAK JAK could verify, was one of the best Fed flyers this fed ever had. Never trained any bird past 20 miles. Hes said, home from 20, then a race, can home from any where. Two top flyers , National winners to boot have their 'Articles' for all to see. Not even traned as y/b's. A couple of training tosses, 150 - 250 miles first race! Another, never trained his y/b's, nor as yearlings, 2 races and topping Pau. Seems to me, it is another wagging the dog by the tail.

There is only assumptions, like in answers to Blackswans quieries. Alann, a newly married lad has some youngster bred him. 6 in fact. He didn't have time - couldn't afford to train, so never ever tosseed them any where. Decides to pack up. rather than cull he sent them to Berwick, 239 miles 5 in top ten of the fed (Dropped just the one, and beat some good boys in the Kettering club, days of 40 members nigh.

The list is endless, but it smacks again of what WE feel is right, and is often related to human terms.

[Roland]

Well if you have 2 pigeons in a 45foot long x 26 wide with a 100yards x 1000yards avery and the Birds fly out well regularly does that mean that they can't catch Para etc. !!! :-/ :-/?

Of course not, likewise they don't catch Avian... carry it eh! So that's that little one sort lol ;D ;D

[JSTOON]

Couldnt have put it better, when im getting the channel team ready, and its a string west wind (which we all know it usually is), ill take my birds to Hull, East of my lofts, flying into Pontefract. Bang head wind, and ive never lost one yet. And i dont do too bad at the cahnnel, though ive never tried it with the sprint team :X :X

[OLDYELLOW]

2 pigeons wouldnt be overcrowded now would they!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!  stale air ammonia feaces and racing and flying out will all be contributing factors in the health of a pigeon , how does your suggestion disprove over crowding ?

[Roland]

Overcrowding as you state is not overcrowding at all. It's down to bad managerment. As long as they have a perch that allows them to breathe easierly, then it's not overcrowding. How many pigeons could roost in a tree till they became over crowded? Indeed three trees?

[OLDYELLOW]

a Tree is not an enclosed artifical envirioment is it ? unless its a bonzai in a solarium , birds that roost in trees are in open air with shelter and there territorial instints will predict how many will roost in said tree , still this doesnt answer my original post:

 

now lets see where did the Bird Flue Virus start ?      overcrowded bird market !!!!!!!!!       one loft race virus struck ? wonder how many birds per foot was in there

[nagid]

i think in reality we pigeon fanciers would like to think we know a bit about them but after years of keeping pigeons we dont really know much at all.I dont know about you guys and girls but they sure make an ass of me at times :)

[jimmy white]

i think in reality we pigeon fanciers would like to think we know a bit about them but after years of keeping pigeons we dont really know much at all.I dont know about you guys and girls but they sure make an ass of me at times :)

 

yes ., agree   no matter how long youve kept them, youll never get to the bottom of them , maybe thats why their so fascinating :) we can  but    try ;D ;D ;D [and their very trying  sometimes ;D]

[Roland]

Don't understand the question! Where as in Place, from Enviroment?

But certainly hasn't anything to do with overcrowding pigeons.

 

now lets see where did the Bird Flue Virus start ?      overcrowded bird market !!!!!!!!!       one loft race virus struck ? wonder how many birds per foot was in there

 

 

[OLDYELLOW]

you claim that overcrowding is a myth , as i can clearly give you 2 examples that it is a problem and you even said that more birds housed then viruses spread quicker so even you admit that it's a problem , so i cant understand why it's a myth ?

[Roland]

One thing for sure, mother Nature proves every single time... some time ole Big head the scientist with spout telephone numbers and scenarios and fool us some times for a little while, but then lol and behold Nuture proves correct.

Now just when ever has anyone ever seen pigeons not flock together? clam closer to build their' nest?

It is their' nature, and try as one might, as soon as one nest is up, others join, and you know what, there may well be stacks of better - in our eyes - places and ledges etc. Stacks of room! And where do they go... you've got it, as close as possible to another nest and on it goes. IT is their nature, their very essence.

Droppings, in a dry enviroment serve as the best nesting material there is. IT hardens and gives warm. Lice when need bes clean feathers and keep them spot on... as most parasites have their role... never see larger fish eating or stopping their cleaners... WE do, and try to copy and make out it's better ... more like someone is making money.

In Canada the law say that pigeons must has 1 square foot of air to each bird. Nigh every one say, great so they should have, and that is taken as granted to be ample.

Now a loft of 12 ft x 9 foot wide, by 8ft high could hous a lot of pigeon ... 72 would be nothing in reality!

[Roland]

you claim that overcrowding is a myth , as i can clearly give you 2 examples that it is a problem and you even said that more birds housed then viruses spread quicker so even you admit that it's a problem , so i cant understand why it's a myth ?

 

So in nature just what is wrong with that? In my loft, and many named lofts it is deemed a good thing! The quicker it spreads, and they all have it - whatever it is - the quicker they become immune to it. Sure some things need a little help due to man's silly interferace, but that is no more than give a innoculation!

On a sadder not, some may die... But the rest become better stronger for it, and more importantly so do their off spring.

Going bed, be up at 5 in morning, but will look straight off.

[OLDYELLOW]

In this 12ft x9ft x 8ft how would you catch all these pigeons to basket they would fly round you till your exhausted a smaller more managable area will keep your birds tamer and be less stressfull to them , but still you have not answered the question ( why is overcrowding a myth ) but clearly you wont because your opinion is flawed as overcrowding causes most of our pigeons health problems

[OLDYELLOW]

nature is completely different as our birds are far removed from its rock dove state , there in a false enviroment , we race them which is not was intended for them we are manipulating the migratory instincts , we are there sole provider not mother nature , if you want to look at nature it's survival of the fitest but even the fitest can secum to illness , yes pick up a ferial they be lice free wont secum to paromixo virus , but you get it to fly 500+ mile , nature will be survival of the fittest not fastest or one that home

[Roland]

In this 12ft x9ft x 8ft how would you catch all these pigeons to basket they would fly round you till your exhausted a smaller more managable area will keep your birds tamer and be less stressfull to them , but still you have not answered the question ( why is overcrowding a myth ) but clearly you wont because your opinion is flawed as overcrowding causes most of our pigeons health problems

 

Are you just being phefacious?

The Loft was just a example.

Mine for instance is 6 .6 feet high, 4 ft x 4 .6 I can, and do, house 16 pairs comfortablely and raise a round of youngster.

I agree that a smaller loft makes it A. more manaeable, B. Tamer pigeons C. Far better for the pigeons. It gives them a natural constant 'Jealousy' protection of their perch.

And as one can relate to, Jealous is the main ingrediants of most 'Motivation' in some form or another.

The realistic fact as to why overcrowding is a myth is that many, as indeed our top Fed flyer Barry houses many birds - like many more, in a small back garden loft. His old bird loft is now 10 x 6 with 24 pairs, his y/b houses the y/b's in around 6 x4. Used to be just an 8 x 6 till he tried widowerhood, where he split to house the hens seperately.

At a moot where the panel was all household names, they were of the impression, which they did, that if the was a sickness, like y/b for instance it was far far better to let the other eat any vomitted feed so it spread quicker, and they all had their immune shot at once... As to letting it happen ove a season and knackering up most weeks with weekened birds being sent.

So the simple answer is as I stated Overcrowding is a math, a 'Lame crutch for A. Bad managerment.

B. Further proveded adequate air FLOW is constant, it is better by far to have more, than less birds  asthis heighthens their' naturual instinc. . This also augers where for a more contented loft.

Besides when their are spare perches, / Nest boxes, hey are skitting about or the time trying to claim more perches / nest boxes.

But when AL slots are taken in a proper controlled 'Pecking Order' birds quickly settle down and relax, undisturbbed and thus giving them all important rest.

Rest, feed and exercise, then more rest is fundemental to any loft.

Strange that the three best distance flyers in past to present worked hat system. And - For me argueably a great flyer that would have held his own anywhere *Worldwide* even had them always a nest box short... And when you walked in Gary's back garden his widowerhood cocks just laid there basking in the sun with wings out, and you had to litually step over them. One in ALL in'...

A great national winning flyer from Derby had just nest boxes on poles in a circle. Jealousy astounded. All flew up together, as soon as one landed they all did. Now just how many Nest boxes,  - like say Gary Motts lofts, which are also like rabbit hutches stacked on top of each other where the wind / air just passes through can you place in a Garden / field till they get overcrowded?! Likewise with boxes in a wire gage... with slot on side parts to combat the elements when need be. Of course a over lapping roof is needed to keep out the Rain...

How Many birds, or pair of birds till over crowded?

That is why there is no such thing as over crowding providing their is ample ventilation!

If not then that is bad Managerment!

[bewted]

Jumping birds:  A good few fanciers I know , and three are the best in this area, never went / go above 20 miles. Gary Edmunds, as JAK JAK could verify, was one of the best Fed flyers this fed ever had. Never trained any bird past 20 miles. Hes said, home from 20, then a race, can home from any where. Two top flyers , National winners to boot have their 'Articles' for all to see. Not even traned as y/b's. A couple of training tosses, 150 - 250 miles first race! Another, never trained his y/b's, nor as yearlings, 2 races and topping Pau. Seems to me, it is another wagging the dog by the tail.

There is only assumptions, like in answers to Blackswans quieries. Alann, a newly married lad has some youngster bred him. 6 in fact. He didn't have time - couldn't afford to train, so never ever tosseed them any where. Decides to pack up. rather than cull he sent them to Berwick, 239 miles 5 in top ten of the fed (Dropped just the one, and beat some good boys in the Kettering club, days of 40 members nigh.

The list is endless, but it smacks again of what WE feel is right, and is often related to human terms.

 

as a point of interest roland,,,,approx when did this happen,just curious !!!!