To make money?

[Guest]

SORRY YES I HAVE GIVEN TOP CLASS BLOODLINES AWAY FOR NOWT

[jimmy white]

i think you will allways get buyers and sellers,, the honest sellers can be an advantage ,

 

but unfortunately there are dishonest sellers ,but fortunately these  are usually found out very quickly

,

its really a case, if buying pigeons , do your homework [mind you , you can get good pigeons free ,if you do more homework ]

[rooster]

try to buy from a racing loft , not a stud as these are just business pigeons , paper tigers,  plenty of top class fanciers on here sell pigeons at a modest price , try buying late breeds or around of eggs if money is that little bit tighter , buy young stay young ,

[just ask me]

i think you will allways get buyers and sellers,, the honest sellers can be an advantage ,

 

but unfortunately there are dishonest sellers ,but fortunately these  are usually found out very quickly

,

its really a case, if buying pigeons , do your homework [mind you , you can get good pigeons free ,if you do more homework ]

 

about doing your homework this is what its all about lads good birds wont fall in your lap i spend hours apon hours lookig at results seeing where pll are living it can surprise u what u will find out a lot of the time the best birds in the race are not even in the top 10 and for national racing well they can be anywhere on the sheet

[Guest Paulo]

try to buy from a racing loft , not a stud as these are just business pigeons , paper tigers,  plenty of top class fanciers on here sell pigeons at a modest price , try buying late breeds or around of eggs if money is that little bit tighter , buy young stay young ,

 

Come to me I'll give you all a good deal or Jim Bambling

[peterpau]

I'm trying to sell a few YB's to help me out with me costs next year. Got no time for all these con merchants who sell old birds all the time through. Half the time they are getting rid of their crap unless its an entire clearance

 

Mate I don't normally have a stock loft so have no prisoners. We moved here last year and all the stock I bought will be moved on. I will not sell any crap though. People some times do part with good birds, I will cos I don't have the room to keep 'em.

 

 

[Merlin]

 

 

My own interpretation is when people buy birds,its their money ,and they are entitled to go wherever./whoever they like for birds,as for those who wish to point them in a different direction,by whatever means,this is usually down to their own vanity,unless its a warning about a feather merchant, always remember every time you buy a bird,you are taking a chance, also of the opinion there are more competent birds than fanciers.

[Guest Paulo]

 

Mate I don't normally have a stock loft so have no prisoners. We moved here last year and all the stock I bought will be moved on. I will not sell any crap though. People some times do part with good birds, I will cos I don't have the room to keep 'em.

 

 

People do and I appreicate that but a lot of people aren't as honest as yourself.

[Guest Paulo]

found this good advice about buying birds on ad shaerlackens website:-

 

ADVICE

 

Therefore I will give only some pieces of advice for foreigners:

 

- Slogans such as ‘the best breeder ever’ or ‘the best Janssen hen in history’ or ‘a pigeon that only gives winners’ mean nothing.

 

- Never buy youngsters off birds of which neither the band number nor the breeder’s name is mentioned.

 

- Be careful when you read about results that are too good to be true.

 

- And most importantly, in case you buy a bird be sure you get it directly from the fancier. What some Europeans, especially those that are in charge of a website do now is buy pigeons of popular fanciers INDIRECTLY and offer them for sale.

 

The late Klak had a so called ‘black list’ on which the names were mentioned from fanciers that could not buy his pigeons any more.

 

What they did was buy say 10 birds from Klak and when after some years 2 turned out to be good the remaining rubbish was offered for sale. They were original Klak birds with correct pedigrees indeed but had proven to be no good. Therefore people here do not understand why some pay so much for birds that are 3 or 4 years old.

 

Only a fool will offer such birds for sale if they were any good.

 

What they may have is a breath taking pedigree but don’t we want good birds instead of nice papers?

 

[Guest Paulo]

Pedigrees don’t fly

 

 

 

A bird that had been my favourite for some years had died.

 

I did not feel bad for one second since this bird had fooled me too long.

 

It was a special bird though.

 

At a very young age it already caught my eye, since it was such a beauty: ‘Eyes like bullets, softly feathered, a solid backbone.’

 

But… already at young age it had all the odds against him as well, apart from its good looks.  

 

It was the last one to find the drinker and later on the last one to find out how to get out of the loft when I released the birds.

 

The bird was only good at one thing: demonstrating its immense stupidity.

 

It already became obvious that it wasn’t born to win at the first training tosses.

 

When it got home I could close the lofts, since I knew all birds were home then.

 

In the young bird races it failed to win one decent prize but I thought, or better I hoped, it might get better when it got older. So it ‘survived’ the selection.

 

 

 

WINTER

 

Winter came and that dandy kept on demonstrating its stupidity.

 

First I had a hard time moving it to another loft.

 

In its new loft it could not settle and frequently it went in through the wrong ‘sputnik’ to a section that was not his.

 

When he did enter the right one, he often flew into the wrong box.

 

Till finally I was fed up with it and I decided the bird should move.

 

Why I had had so much patience with such a bird?

 

That was not only because of its beauty, but its brother was my best racer and its parents were my best breeders.

 

Furthermore it looked almost identical to his good brother, I had to check the ring numbers to know who was who.  

 

Fortunately I had neither given it away nor sold it.

 

The new owner would have felt he was cheated for sure.

 

Since a perfect good-looking pigeon with a nice pedigree is still no guarantee for

 

quality, I have my financial limits when it comes to buying babies.

 

 

 

BUYING

 

It must be said though that buying pigeons does have its charms. Even when later on it turns out you wasted your money.

 

The illusion alone that you bought a good bird may make you feel good.  

 

Some people say ‘good pigeons you mostly get free’.

 

Indeed, there are lots of examples of people that got a good bird for free, but there are also many examples of fanciers that purchased birds that turned them into champions.  

 

But if you are the kind of person for whom it is hard to get rid of birds that had cost  money, you shouldn’t buy any pigeons at all.

 

The traditional mistake many fanciers make is that they give expensive birds too much credit, not only since they had cost money but such birds mostly have a nice pedigree as well and mostly come from a great name.

 

Serious realistic fanciers should evaluate pigeons they bought the same way as their own.

 

You sometimes hear people say: ‘good blood does not lie.’

 

But that IS a lie, thanks Heaven.

 

If not, all the good birds would inevitably fall into the hands of a limited number of fanciers; the guys with money.

 

So we may conclude that, if you can afford to buy expensive birds, this has both its advantages and disadvantages.

 

 

 

A STAR DOWN-TO-EARTH

 

Once someone asked Klak how much he charged for babies off his best breeders.

 

Jos replied:

 

‘You do know the price, don’t you? It is the same for all birds, regardless the origin. To breed that good bird you need a lot of luck. All my birds may produce both good and bad babies, therefore I charge the same price for all.’

 

So no rubbish about ‘Golden couples’, just the truth and nothing else.

 

If you have a good racer it often happens that one of the parents is gone.

 

Some people think they have a simple solution.

 

They ‘replace’ the cock of the couple by its full brother.

 

How wrong they are.  

 

I am the last one to deny that off some pigeons you have better chances to breed good babies than off others.

 

I also prefer a youngster off parents that already produced good birds, but breeding good birds is not a mathematical issue.

 

Since there are no standard rules, you better forget all those theories on inbreeding, line breeding and crossing of two inbred strains.

 

 

 

ANECDOTE

 

I want to tell you an anecdote.

A guy wanted pigeons off a champion that lived far from him.

 

He went to that champion and asked for youngsters off the best breeders.

 

The champ charged 1,000 euro, since this ‘golden couple’ only gave supers.

 

At least, that was what he said.

 

The guy got interested when he heard the word ‘supers’, since it was ‘supers’ that he wanted.

 

He replied: ‘Money doesn’t matter as long as they are good birds. I will even give you 10,000 provided we go to a notary to make an agreement.

 

If in the end the bird I buy doesn’t turn out to be a ‘super’ you get it back and I will get my 10,000 back.’

 

The sale never took place. The champion felt this was ‘no way of doing business’.

 

 

 

STUPID BLOND

 

Let’s get back to that stupid bird I started this article with.

 

“Why didn’t you put it in the stock loft?’ people asked me, since the origin was good and the bird looked great.

 

‘If a bird is real good and its brother is not, the latter is a good breeder’ they claim.

 

Right or wrong?

 

Hmmm, I don’t know, but…I prefer babies off the good racer itself and leave breeding off the brothers of good racers to my competitors.

 

A friend compared my favourite with ‘a dumb blond’ like you can see in commercials.

 

The dumb blond repeats the text she learned by heart and tries to sell us a product that she herself doesn’t know anything about at all.

 

Mostly there is an immeasurable stupidity behind her breathtaking appearance and killing body.

However, advertisers know that it is the ‘packaging’, as I like to call it, that sells. Shining bright teeth, a sexy smile and big boobs are always helpful means to seduce people to buy whatever stuff that the advertisers want to sell.

 

[Tumley Lofts Stud]

Hi All, just joined this forum. As a stud I would like to add a bit of advice from my side! So here goes and I'm sure some of you are ready to rip me to sreads!

 

You don't need to buy a pigeon to get a winner! I know people who win with pigeons off the chirch roof! BUT this doesn't work for everyone.

 

We don't buy names we TRY to buy winners if we can afford them. The apple doesn't fall far from the tree is my point.

 

What pigeon/strain wins for one person maynot do the same for another!

 

The only way  to find out is to try. We give breeding stock 3 years to produce the goods if no reports are heard by then they are usually distroyed and yes we have killed excellent breeders but know one tells us till it's too late!

 

A pedigree is only as good as the person who writes it. As said earlier on, the basket will sort out the good from the bad.

 

Not sure if this is much good advice or me just rambeling.

 

Cheers, James.

[OLDYELLOW]

Hi All, just joined this forum. As a stud I would like to add a bit of advice from my side! So here goes and I'm sure some of you are ready to rip me to sreads!

 

You don't need to buy a pigeon to get a winner! I know people who win with pigeons off the chirch roof! BUT this doesn't work for everyone.

 

We don't buy names we TRY to buy winners if we can afford them. The apple doesn't fall far from the tree is my point.

 

What pigeon/strain wins for one person maynot do the same for another!

 

The only way  to find out is to try. We give breeding stock 3 years to produce the goods if no reports are heard by then they are usually distroyed and yes we have killed excellent breeders but know one tells us till it's too late!

 

A pedigree is only as good as the person who writes it. As said earlier on, the basket will sort out the good from the bad.

 

Not sure if this is much good advice or me just rambeling.

 

Cheers, James.

 

 

Had a similar discusion with Frank Sheader and he recons you need to take 3 rounds of each pair each year for 3 years to know if a pair are going to be of any use  

 

 

[Guest Paulo]

Hi All, just joined this forum. As a stud I would like to add a bit of advice from my side! So here goes and I'm sure some of you are ready to rip me to sreads!

 

You don't need to buy a pigeon to get a winner! I know people who win with pigeons off the chirch roof! BUT this doesn't work for everyone.

 

We don't buy names we TRY to buy winners if we can afford them. The apple doesn't fall far from the tree is my point.

 

What pigeon/strain wins for one person maynot do the same for another!

 

The only way  to find out is to try. We give breeding stock 3 years to produce the goods if no reports are heard by then they are usually distroyed and yes we have killed excellent breeders but know one tells us till it's too late!

 

A pedigree is only as good as the person who writes it. As said earlier on, the basket will sort out the good from the bad.

 

Not sure if this is much good advice or me just rambeling.

 

Cheers, James.

 

So when you sell birds to people you are either selling them direct children off proven winners or sires or dams of proven winners?

 

If thats the case then fair enough.

 

Its when people do as Louella do and breed birds off the winner and don't test them via racing and keep them for stock. Then your buying pigeons off grandchildren that have never even been trained as YB's that hacks me off. Plus all this brother sister bollocks no bird is worth anything unless:-

 

A. Its won

 

B. It breds winners

 

I see your selling your YB's for £30.00 I'd say thats a fair price for birds direct off your winners.

 

Personally I introduce my pigeons as youngsters from proven racing men who race and have good results and good reps for supplying birds. That way I can test them throughly as YB's and see if they have what it takes.

 

For stock birds I try and buy winners from entire clearance sales that have multipile chalks. I'll also take YB's from my racers by paring performance pigeon to performance pigeon.

 

Nones disputing that sometimes you have to spend money to get decent birds howver you can save yourself a lot of money by buying intellegently.

 

Just out of interest what moviates a man to set up a stud? Do you race yourself or do you just enjoy having the birds around and want to make some money by breeding guys good pigeons?

[Guest Paulo]

 

 

Had a similar discusion with Frank Sheader and he recons you need to take 3 rounds of each pair each year for 3 years to know if a pair are going to be of any use  

 

 

Thats what I got told as well by a few of my mentors. Obviously it depends on whose racing the finished product as well.

[Guest Paulo]

 

Everytime i have seen your birds, they have been a real credit to you - I will look out for you at Blackpool and discuss the discount for the good feedback lol  ;D

 

 

get me one as well lol you creep!

[gangster]

well done to tumley lofts on there recent top result in s/african 1 loft race.......

[Tumley Lofts Stud]

If you look at my results page www.tumleylofts.co.uk/results you will see pictures of what we have won and what other people have won with our birds.

 

We have had a break in racing to our lofts mainly due to moving, also it is 1 hour drive to the nearest club! And we have very local raptor trouble! BUT I am going to get a young birds race team together 2009 fingers crossed.

 

Our stud doesn't make money otherwise I wouldn't be working as and Electrician and Builder 6 days a week!

 

If you look at our home page you'll see what pigeons we have just bought in they are either direct off winners or are racing birds themselves. I have just purchased back a 2004 bred Aarden that was bred by us and raced in Scotland winning from 60 miles through to 600 miles!

 

We love hearing about how our pigeons get on and how excited people are when they do well with them. Some people are satisfied with Club results, others want more but we are always striving to improve on what we have/have bred. We were all over the moon on Saturday morning at 6.45am when a South African friend phoned and congratulated us on a 3rd Hot Spot win in the Sun City race, even though its not flying to our loft, to think we have chosen a bird that has beaten all those others from around the world I can't describe how good it feels.

 

The stud is my mums fault when dad was spending so much money on buying birds to beat the other fanciers she said how about trying to recoup the money by selling a few and thats how it started 25 years ago! We have made some fantastic friends from all over the world doing this, not often you get the chance to meet such a wide variety of interesting people

[Tumley Lofts Stud]

I only found that thread today and that's what made me join because I wanted to thank the people that left great comments about us and I've learnt a bit more about how our birds are doing for other people.

 

Good feedback can only help

[Guest Paulo]

I only found that thread today and that's what made me join because I wanted to thank the people that left great comments about us and I've learnt a bit more about how our birds are doing for other people.

 

Good feedback can only help

 

well thats the key to success I suppose If your are honest with people and breed them good birds they will come back.

 

The bloke I buy Yb's off doesn't need to advertise he gets repeat orders every year. It took a lot of homework and a familly connection to get an introduction

[Silverdale Lofts]

I visited Tumley Lofts many years ago when they was in Devon  Jamie was only a young lad then if i go to Blackpool i always make sure i visit Derek and Joys stand both hard workers and some good pigeons i dont know if you still do loft visits Jamie but if anyone ever wants to see some class stock birds visit Tumley lofts Jamie give my regards to your mam and dad for me Tommy.

[Tumley Lofts Stud]

Hi Tommy, will do. See you at Blackpool.

 

Yes anyone is more than welcome to come and visit there's always a cup of tea and piece of cake awaiting!

 

No pressure to buy, it's always good to just meet other fanciers.

[john@formula 1 lofts]

I think dishonest sellers get found out very quickly as word of bad birds go around a lot quicker then good birds. The reason we sell birds is to keep improving our stock loft which in turn makes us better races (hopefully) and makes the birds we sell even better. the only birds we sell are y/b's direct from the stock we have brought. In a very short space of time the amount of winners we have been told of is great. but as Tumley said they don't all bred winners just last weekend we disposed of a cock we paid over a £1000 for because he did not bred the goods. I could have took him to Doncaster a couple of weeks ago and sold him for £300-£400 but for me that is not right and very unfair to any buyers.

 

 

[OLDYELLOW]

 

Thats what I got told as well by a few of my mentors. Obviously it depends on whose racing the finished product as well.

 

very true , and birds tend to breed one round that are better than the others  

[Guest Vic]

A couple of half decent results, the in strain and they all want a £££££

PARASITES the game is full of them.

  Now c'mon you Guys!  This pigeon basic member is no slouch and can hold his head up to the very, very best ! 700 and odd miles on the day, BRILLIANT to say the least. This years NFC  (by the way). Most of us are novices in comparsion. Vic.