Aged Stock Birds Be Aware

[slinky slitheroe]

 

i will only buy an older bird at a clearance sale that has bred the goods ,apart from that i will buy youngbirds only .

Preferably latebreeds from the best if possible.

 

[Guest IB]

Think the most expensive 'aged' pigeons I've seen were a couple of 12 y-o Kirkpatricks, a son and a daughter of Stan the Man, which an elderly Welsh fancier had advertised in BHW a few years back when I was first starting up again. Phoned up, but there had already been an offer for £400 for them, out of my league.

 

I've a few thoughts on breeders: I agree few are offered for sale, and those that are, the adverts are meaningless as they concentrate on what they are off (wrong in my view) instead of what they have produced, (very important in my view). I don't subscribe to the 'age' view either, a pair that breed winners should breed them no matter their age as sperm & ova are ageless. Those that talk about yearlings being best bet only give part of the picture - they leave out the numbers: apart from YBs yearlings form the biggest single group of pigeons; of that group, what's the ratio of pairs that breed winners, to those that don't? And of course, by the time you find that they are producing the goods, how many are still there and not been lost on the road?

 

[Guest numpty01]

cock 13 years old his youngster was 3club 4th fed saints flying 400plus miles as yearling and countless other positions so age really matters little god even older peaple can still ???? birds are the same just takes longer which keeps hen happy ;D ;D ;D

[Merlin]

No problems breeding from older birds ,which for yourself has done the business,obviously it wouldn't be about if it hadn't,but as for buying in older birds,unless they have a very good racing career,but based solely on its lineage,would myself be very wary.

[Guest numpty01]

really noone would get rid of older stock if they were any good lets be fair we all know that but keep on buying in the hope we will get something the old saying well it musthave bred something as it would not still be alive comes to mind

[hotrod]

No problems breeding from older birds ,which for yourself has done the business,obviously it wouldn't be about if it hadn't,but as for buying in older birds,unless they have a very good racing career,but based solely on its lineage,would myself be very wary.

 

well mate i would slightly disagree with you ,just because its a good racer doesnt meen that it will breed the goods , i have multi winners in my loft and have had plenty in the past and dont and have never bred from them ,and if i have its one or two to try them if the do alright then i will try more, i pick out my stock pigeons by hand and eye ,if they are what im looking for and bred right  then in they go  and give them a go , even so i only breed between 2 and 4 off my stock birds each year as i dont keep many youngsters.

[Guest]

 

well mate i would slightly disagree with you ,just because its a good racer doesnt meen that it will breed the goods , i have multi winners in my loft and have had plenty in the past and dont and have never bred from them ,and if i have its one or two to try them if the do alright then i will try more, i pick out my stock pigeons by hand and eye ,if they are what im looking for and bred right  then in they go  and give them a go , even so i only breed between 2 and 4 off my stock birds each year as i dont keep many youngsters.

 

i would tend to agree that good racers or some stock dont breed the goods

but have found that they sometimes skip a generation

and are worth keeping as their grandchildren produce the goods

i think it takes about 3 of years to see what works (jmo)

 

ive 4 children out of a multiple winner including 4th and 1st sec snfc

but their children are far better

 

dave

 

 

 

 

[chaz]

I have used older stock birds, to get the lines I want and you then have young virile pigeons off them with which to race and breed your next lot of young birds, my old Shore cock was 9 when I got him his first round for me produced a cock who flew the water well and he in turn produced me a cock in his first nest that scored from 500 only bird on the day in the club,

 

Old stock birds are fine for bringing in lines and families but if you are having to rely on JUST old stock birds then you may find yourself in trouble a few years down the line when they are dead and gone IMO

 

Chaz

[Guest]

Remember very few lofts have older birds left to breed. Most lofts today breed on the principal of winner to winner, invariably the winners get lost for being pushed too far or very often the winner is not the breeder but it's nestmate. After breeding several pair of poor birds the winner is disposed of before it can get to 7. Then you have the champion birds they last until 14 / 15 those that can breed are fantastic breeders but there aren't many derby winners that breed Derby winners!! But their pedigree keeps them breeding, many of us are happy to buy yb out of a 10 yo national winner.

My opinion ... it's down to stockmanship if you have the ability to select the breeder then it doesn't matter what age. I have been to Massarella's for redundant stock three times, the ifrst time i picked three pigeons, the one bred fed winners, the other two paired together bred a hen to score three timnes across the channel as a yearling. The next year I picked two hens 10 & 11. The ten year old laid soft eggs so I disposed of her, the 11 yo bred 10th open BBC YB.

This autumn I went up again, for some long distance hens, pulled out a ch had asked the attendant if I could go outside to see it's eye in natural light, wow! Came back in asked the attendant to hold it for me whilst I lookedat another I'd fancied took that out and must admit I was wowed again. Anyway the attendant said to me you sure you want the first one? I said yes she's fantastic, he asked me if I'd seen her age, she was a 96 hen. I bought her , a risk but at £30 worth taking, I could not afford her like as a 2 / 3 yo. The upshot well her first pair look empty and were just under normal size (I have not checked since I floated them, I mated 5th March. Floated all my stock 25th). She laid again last night egg looked perfect and she has laid in good time, so  I am hopefull and she is paired to the KO Nip cock I had on here from Cottonheat.

If her eggs are full I'm confident the young will do 500/700 providing they get past the hawks.

Don't get me wrong I would be much happier rearing out of a much younger equivalent but I can't afford them, so I back my judgement on the eye, especially when I believe the only man who knows more than me in the world is Bill Carney, indeed he is the only man who knows the secret of the eye (besides me ;D)

[hotrod]

chaz i have one or two from each of my stoack birds put by i mean the bee's knees the best one i have ever had off them so they will take their place when they stop laying or fertilising the eggs , i usually pair these pigeons to my best racers so that there mate is always waiting when they get home. im not that silly mate. and albear you were luck when you went to maasi's ,i went years ago when they first advertised older stock for sale ,three of us went down from scotland nearly 5hours including stop off for breaky, and seen nearly 200 birds for sale in that wee room , i asked who was in charge and told them under no uncertain terms that i had drove all that way and not ONE OF THAT $HITE WOULD GET A PERCH IN MY LOFT to which he sent me over the car park to another building to speak to michael mass, and told him off so to speak about the quality, he sent one of his messingers up to the lofts and brought a basket of jan Aardens to the side gate for me to get the pick of and these were the business , ALL BECAUSE I COMPLAINED  and all the numpties in that wee room were buying them as if they were going out of fashion ,ps they never bred a pigeon to score even a minor prize ticket,

[Guest]

what do members think is a fair price for an older stock bird ? , when u see some of the add s about  for these birds  it does  feel like a lot of ££££   , tractorboy

 

I was delighted to pay £35 for 8 yo birds at Louella

[Guest]

would u sell ur best lol no matter what its age a widni

 

If it enabled you to get better

[budgie]

what do members think is a fair price for an older stock bird ? , when u see some of the add s about  for these birds  it does  feel like a lot of ££££   , tractorboy

Tractorboy

Quality is priceless and the 2% of good stock pigeons are not for sale. I have asked previously if there is anyone who can sell a pre-potent pair i would by them provided they were under Five years old.Dont pay any more than you can afford and keep clear of older pigeons that are no good to their owner and certainaly no good to yourself.

Youve Been Warned

Dont buy Shi-e and remember the 98% Rule. :(

 

 

[Guest]

 

Dont buy Shi-e and remember the 98% Rule. :(

 

 

So do you have 100% pre potents and how do you pick the non shyster?

 

[budgie]

i dont care how old the birds are as long as they breed the goods ,i have at stock just now 8 pairs ,i have   cocks  2 x 13 year olds, a 12 yr  old ,a 10yr old,2 x 7yr olds,a 5 yr old, and a 3yr old-----hens  i have a 13yr old , a 10 yr old, a 9yr old, 2 x 7yr olds, a 5 yr old ,a 3 yr old and a yearling , so will i not breed any winners this year ?

 

Stuart

What do you class as a good Stock Bird and how many winners would you expect in one season.With 6 out of your 8 pairs over the age of 7 they must be somthing special and good Luck on the Oncoming Season. ;) ;)If they are not paired up with Latebreds/Yearlings we have found out that they just dont survive ;)

[budgie]

 

So do you have 100% pre potents and how do you pick the non shyster?

We have some cracking racers but at present we do not have a pre-potent pair.And the only way you will ever Know is by the Basket not the Auld Wifes Theory Eyesign.

 

 

[Guest youngzimmy]

What do you class as a good Stock Bird  ONE THAT BREEDS WINNERS ANY THING ELSE IS A WAST OF SPACE AND GRUB

[budgie]

What do you class as a good Stock Bird  ONE THAT BREEDS WINNERS ANY THING ELSE IS A WAST OF SPACE AND GRUB[/quoteI had a chat with the Great Rod Adams and his Top Pair only breed 1 out of 6 each year that is any good. I asked him for a youngster out of this pair and he said that i would have to take the 6 as there was no way of picking the winner. :-/ :-/ :-/

 

 

[Guest]

Would you sell them if they were any good.If they dont breed winners within four years with a couple of mates bin them dont sell them to try and get your money back.

 

:-/yes i have sold birds that breed winners,one pair have bred many winners CLUB,FED AMAL,ONE SON HAS WON 11 1st CLUBS AND TOP FEDERATION RESULTS,HEN BRED OUT OF THEM WON 2 1st FEDS 1st AMAL,ONE OF THE MEMBERS ON THIS SITE BOUGHT HER ,I HAVE CHILDREN IN MY STOCK LOFT WHICH WILL BREED WINNERS

P,S NOT PICK BY THERE EYE ;D ;D ;D ;D.

 

[Guest]

We have some cracking racers but at present we do not have a pre-potent pair.And the only way you will ever Know is by the Basket not the Auld Wifes Theory Eyesign.

 

 

Agreed eye sign is a load of b**l*cks as is thinking the basket finds them

[Guest]

i recently broght a 10 year old cock he is top class in evry way.he has been in ireland breeding for a top national flyer all bred from him are in his stock loft,i have let all his young go to a few flyers to try out,i will have a bet with anyone that he will breed winners,and no he wasent cheap :'(

[Guest]

i recently broght a 10 year old cock he is top class in evry way.he has been in ireland breeding for a top national flyer all bred from him are in his stock loft,i have let all his young go to a few flyers to try out,i will have a bet with anyone that he will breed winners,and no he wasent cheap :'(

 

Good luck with him, no reason why he shouldn't!

[Guest youngzimmy]

you dont see many pemsioners running the mile in four mins either

[Guest]

you dont see many pemsioners running the mile in four mins either

 

No but there's still plenty that can fill their eggs ;D ;D

[Guest youngzimmy]

show me a champion winning pigeon with a bad eye