in breeding

rich · November 22, 2009

Hi ,

stupid question time, please help, in my loft i have a mother and son which have paired up,

will the off spring be weak or deformed birds thanks

November 22, 2009

no should be fine

November 22, 2009

not quite sure but wasnt Champion Millenium Superstar from a mother to son or father to dtr mating ??

November 22, 2009

Once off is unlikely to cause any problem

November 22, 2009

Usually there would not be a problem with the health and strength of the offspring. However, if there is a reccesive gene for something bad. About 50% of the young will inherit the problem, a further 25% will probably carry the problem and another 25% will be clear. Some people deliberately pair close relitives to test for hidden problems.

An example of unwanted side effects of inbreeding can be seen in Texel Sheep where they often suffer with ingrowing eyelashes. Dalmation dogs carry the deafness gene and any breed like the Australian Sheep Dog that has Dalmation blood will also have the deafness gene. And there are many breeds of dogs that can inherit the gene for hip problems. Border Collies can have eye problems leading to early blindness.

So inbreeding can give you benefits but there are often side effects that no-one would want to be bred into their family of birds.

As for me, I will continue to follow nature and out-cross using selection and progeny testing all the way.

ALF · November 22, 2009

I had a brother /sister pair together this year (nest mates) ...... ( i never tried to pair them they done it themselves ) but in the 1st nest they only filled the 1 egg and the doo looked ok but was late from training quite a few times and the next nest the only y/b in the next never opened it's tail feathers ok (they were piped and it was never right :-/ ) needless to say that pair were parted and wont be together next year i can tell you that much but they are very well bred so we'll cross them and see how we go next year :-/ :-/ :-/ :-/

chaz · November 22, 2009

If you worried just float a pair of eggs off another pair under them

November 22, 2009

ALF

you have got some valuable information there. Although you may not have planned to pair these birds, they have demonstrated what I was trying to say earlier. The birds have hidden (recessive) factors in their make-up that are detrimental.

As you say, you should pair these birds with differant partners. If I were you, I would avoid any bird that is likely to be related to them. Whatever the outcome of the future pairings, you will be able to learn a lot about the way that inheritance works.

Some think that it is good to pair relatives in an attempt to get better birds. In my view this is a mistaken belief. At best you will get the same as before and at worst you will get a build up of detrimental factors. The best way to get variation and the occasional superb individual is by crossing tried and tested birds together. It is the old chestnut, "Best to Best", I'm afraid. But the only way this really works, in my view, is when you have the raw material to work with. In other words, birds that have won on several occasions from similar race points.

ALF · November 22, 2009

We all live and learn where pigeons are concerned Owen i've paired nest mates together before and won with y/b's off them but not this pair and they will be paired to other birds next year mate

November 22, 2009

2 great posts owen

November 22, 2009

rich you now have the whole picture that pairing! can produce great champions, and also birds with very bad defects maybe owen has some details regarding the odds of each?

rich · November 23, 2009

many thanks

dwh · November 23, 2009

ALF
you have got some valuable information there. Although you may not have planned to pair these birds, they have demonstrated what I was trying to say earlier. The birds have hidden (recessive) factors in their make-up that are detrimental.
As you say, you should pair these birds with differant partners. If I were you, I would avoid any bird that is likely to be related to them. Whatever the outcome of the future pairings, you will be able to learn a lot about the way that inheritance works.
Some think that it is good to pair relatives in an attempt to get better birds. In my view this is a mistaken belief. At best you will get the same as before and at worst you will get a build up of detrimental factors. The best way to get variation and the occasional superb individual is by crossing tried and tested birds together. It is the old chestnut, "Best to Best", I'm afraid. But the only way this really works, in my view, is when you have the raw material to work with. In other words, birds that have won on several occasions from similar race points.

playing devils advocate here owen wat if bestt2best is brother & sister

jimmy white · November 28, 2009

have topped the fed b4 with yb bred off brother /sister mating,,[accidentaly paired] both parents topped the fed,, i had one, a friend had the other,, [both from the same resource],, it wasnt until the yb topped the fed, we looked at the peds, they were in fact brother and sister,

allthough i believe inbreeding can be very usefull, there are times [in my opinion] when a cross is needed,,,,,,hybrid vigour ,

November 28, 2009

this is somethink im very interested in got an cracking cock today going to pair it to another cracking hen both have done well on the road what im going to do is when i got some youngsters of the pairing put the dad over one of his daughters then but brother and sister together see how i get on with them so im keeping the blood strong all being well

all the best.