Guest Posted October 22, 2007 Report Posted October 22, 2007 were abouts does the money come from to place adverts in thwe localpapers ,your idea sems logical and good ,but come on reality it wont work were all on here moaning about it all the time who is doing what and who is going to start it,TALK and TALK thats all you here , no deeds ,so you know so much about birds of prey you start then and we can all back you
EAGLEOWL Posted October 22, 2007 Report Posted October 22, 2007 were abouts does the money come from to place adverts in thwe localpapers ,your idea sems logical and good ,but come on reality it wont work were all on here moaning about it all the time who is doing what and who is going to start it,TALK and TALK thats all you here , no deeds ,so you know so much about birds of prey you start then and we can all back you im sure the shu -whu nihu the rpra and others could raise money for this cause charity starts at home ,instead of giving thousands away each year .
Guest dogeon Posted October 22, 2007 Report Posted October 22, 2007 i believe the hawk problem was proven when the Rpra went and looked in the hawks nest down in wincanton, there was over 300 rings in one nest
jimmy white Posted October 28, 2007 Author Report Posted October 28, 2007 wonder if they returned the rings to the owners who purchased these rings ,,,,,or did they steal them :-/
DOVEScot Posted November 4, 2007 Report Posted November 4, 2007 Here is your eagle owl for sale http://www.birdtrader.co.uk/birds/BT04364
Guest Posted November 15, 2007 Report Posted November 15, 2007 Scotsman on-line Thu 15th November 2007 'The Scotsman Article (2) + comments Breeders ask for a cull as birds of prey kill 70,000 top pigeons SHÂN ROSS (sross@scotsman.com) THE greatest pleasure Norrie Marsden used to enjoy was watching the hundreds of racing pigeons he looks after flying freely above their loft. But now, as so many have been killed by sparrowhawks, he locks them up during the close season in September to March, when they should be out keeping fit, free from the pressure of racing. Such a prospect for Mr Marsden, 63, a loft manager on the Gartur estate in Cambusbarron, near Stirling, has made him consider giving up his job. The issue is being addressed today when the Scottish Homing Union (SHU), which represents 3,700 pigeon fanciers, meets Mike Russell, the environment minister, to ask for a cull of sparrowhawks. The SHU says it has lost a fifth of its members in the past four years after sparrowhawks targeted their lofts. Prize pigeons worth up to £100,000 have been killed. Fanciers say up to 70,000 prize racing birds are eaten alive every year in Scotland and are calling on the Scottish Government to license the trapping and humane culling of sparrowhawks. Since the sparrowhawk became a protected species under the Wildlife and Countryside Act of 1981, the numbers in Scotland have increased to around 21,000. Mr Marsden has cared for racing pigeons since 1966, some with pedigrees dating back to 1912. Describing his working day prior to the sparrowhawk problem, he said: "It was absolutely perfect. I used to open up the loft when I arrived at 7am and let them get the freedom of the skies. They could be out all day until I went home at 6pm. "It was a pleasure to see them spread out across the grass, carrying a twig or building a nest. Now it is so different. I remember going away one day and when I came back I could see them all up in the sky and knew a sparrowhawk had gone for one. And then I saw her tearing one to bits. I once timed how long it took for a pigeon to be killed - it was a long 11 minutes." Dr Philip Lynch, chairman of the Save Our Sport group of the SHU, said: "We want Mr Russell to allow us to trap sparrowhawks in our gardens and dispatch them humanely. If he won't agree to that, we want to relocate them to the north-west of Scotland, where there are not many pigeon lofts." The Royal Society for the Protection of Birds in Scotland opposes any cull. ROYALTY AMONG UNLIKELY FANS PIGEON fancying may be seen as the realm of the old man in flat cap, but the sport has some unlikely fans. • The Queen has continued her family's tradition by keeping pigeons at the Royal Lofts at Sandringham. They are ringed with the initials "ER". Occasionally, one or two are auctioned for charity. • Former heavyweight boxing champion Mike Tyson keeps hundreds of racing pigeons at his home in Arizona. He refers to them as his "babies". He once commented: "A pigeon fancier is very caring. There is a great gentleness about them when they handle the pigeons, and it is a very sensual thing." • Footballer Duncan Ferguson is a keen pigeon fancier, as are managers John Lambie and Gerry Francis. As a child, Francis was a steward at races with birds belonging to the Queen. She once presented him with a couple of pigeons. This article: http://thescotsman.scotsman.com/index.cfm?id=1804882007 Last updated: 15-Nov-07 00:35 GMT Comments Add your comment 1. Euan, Edinburgh / 1:32am 15 Nov 2007 If only these birds of prey could target the scummy, flea-ridden flocks of pidgeons around Edinburgh.. ..then again, from this article they appear to have better taste by only going after the quality ones. If there is going to be a cull of any birds, city pidgeons and seagulls should top the list by a country mile. 2. Charles Linskaill, Master of pre·cog·ni·tion / 1:57am 15 Nov 2007 Don't get all 'Bird-Flu', news on me, Scotsman news! If you had, read my comments 2-3 weeks ago and listened to me, Your Paper would of been, No1 for excellence, for the' GREAT-PREDICTION!! 'Charles Linskaill' told you all! 3. JP2, Censored by the scotsman for telling the truth / 2:01am 15 Nov 2007 Better that we cull ill-informed, hypocritical and selfish humans. It defies belief that a man who keeps hundreds of birds caged, bred for his own enjoyment, see's fit to suggest that we kill wild birds, who are doing what comes naturally, because his precious pets are being brought back into the natural way of things. 4. Beth Boyle, Allegany Highlands / 2:19am 15 Nov 2007 Anyone who allows domesticated animals to roam free has to realize that preditors will eat them. It's insane to kill hawks so some individual can have a sport or hobby. Hawks are part of the natural world and far more important than any pigeons. It's hardly like this man is breeding these birds to put on the tables of humans or something useful. 5. Flemo / 4:55am 15 Nov 2007 Pigeons are man made vermon, nothing more than flying rats. How dare these fanciers suggest that we destroy protected wild species to protect supposed prize pigeons. But then again thanks. If the numbers are real, and goodness knows how anyone could come up with the estimate, it seems like the fanciers have introduced a welcome food source into the wildlife food chain. Seriously of the data was correct and we are being overrun by sparrow hawks, we should expect to see a rapid decline of the wild pigeon population, which probably out numbers the domesticated population by a 1000-1. 6. Tom M, Fife / 5:00am 15 Nov 2007 Pigeon fanciers put a lot of time, effort and money into the sport and to have some of that effort wasted by a bird that isn't even endangered anymore is silly. I keep pigeons myself, although I don't race them, and have suffered losses and i've heard some real horror stories about lofts being plagued by birds of prey. Just a little bit of common sense on this issue can really help save the sport. 7. Pilrig., Livingston / 6:47am 15 Nov 2007 1- Puir auld Embra ! 8. Pilrig., Livingston / 6:49am 15 Nov 2007 Let's here it from some poster - "marginalise the rspb !" The fanciers have been singing the cull song for decades. Time they lived with the alleged problem. 9. Boy Wonder / 7:14am 15 Nov 2007 Pigeons ... flying vermin, that's all they are. We have hawks in this part of the country and it is a pleasure to see the raptors out hunting the feathered rats. I just wish they could hunt them and their seagull friends to near extinction levels! Then my seed beds would flourish in peace!!! 10. Chris W, Argyll / 7:58am 15 Nov 2007 Sparrowhawks eat pigeons, lions eat zebras, crocodiles eat buffalo. It's called life. Get over it. 11. sam the god / 8:21am 15 Nov 2007 not only do the hawks kill pigeons but they also kill the song birds if the numbers of hawks is increasing then the number of other prey species will start to decline as for #9 boy wonder here is a practical use for his pigeons (very tasty). STIR-FRIED PIGEON WITH MUSHROOM AND PORT (SERVES 4) 25g/ I oz dried porcini mushrooms 4tbsp port 2tbsp sunflower oil 4 spring onions. finely sliced 50 oyster mushrooms. finely sliced 8 pigeon breasts. cut into thin strips Soy sauce I tsp fresh ginger. Grated 1tbsp runny honey 150ml/1/4pt cream Salt and pepper METHOD Soak the porcini mushrooms in port until soft, then remove Heat the oil in a wok and cook the onions, garlic, mushrooms and pigeon for two minutes, then remove to a warm dish. Tip in the remaining ingredients and cook for a few seconds, then add to the pigeon. Serve with pasta. 12. Sinnerman, Another Planet / 8:23am 15 Nov 2007 Sparrowhawk catches racing pigeon means that pigeon was not quick enough. The hawks are actually providing a beneficial service by removing the slower racers, thus saving on the cost of feed for the lazy birds. So, obviously, the so-called prized pigeons were not worth the £100,000; they were too slow. 13. Boy Wonder / 8:30am 15 Nov 2007 #11. Sam TG ... as you know, we Scots are suppose to like unhealthy foods ... so just for you ... DEEP FRIED PIGEONS 2 x pigeons each weighing about 350g 2 slc fresh ginger 900 ml groundnut oil 2 tbl dark soy sauce 2 tbl light soy sauce 150 ml dry sherry or rice wine 2 tbl honey 1 tsp salt 2 piece fresh orange peel finely chopped or dried citrus peel soaked and finely chopped cinnamon stick or Chinese cinnamon bark 1 x star amse (optional) 1/2 tsp white pepper 1 tsp sesame oil Cooking; Bring a large pot of water to the boil. Blanch the pigeons in the boiling water for about 2 minutes. This method helps to rid them of impurities and tightens the skin Remove the pigeons from the pot and discard the water. Cut the ginger into 7.5cm slices. Combine all the braising sauce ingredients together in a large pot and bring it to the boil. Add the pigeons and the ginger. Lower the heat to a simmer and cover the pot tightly. Let it simmer for about 11 1/2 hours until the pigeons are just tender. Remove them with a slotted spoon and let them dry on a plate or hang them up in a cool dry airy place for at least 2 hours. The braising liquid once cooled can be stored in a plastic container and frozen for future use. After two hours the skin of the pigeons should feel like parchment paper. Just before you are ready to serve them heat the oil in a deep fat fryer or large wok. When it is hot lower in the pigeons and deep fry them until they are crisp and deep brown in colour. Turn them over frequently with a slotted spoon so that all sides are thoroughly cooked and browned. This should take about 10 minutes. Drain the cooked pigeons on kitchen paper and let them cool for a few minutes. Using a heavy cleaver or knife chop them into 46 pieces and arrange on a warm serving platter. Serve it with rice Braised Spicy Aubergines and Roasted Salt and Pepper. Pigeons have a rich gamy taste. The southern Chinese like to braise them quickly let them dry and then deepfry them just before serving. The result is a moist highly flavoured pigeon with crisp skin. The secret to this dish lies in the braising liquid which is used over and over again. In some restaurants it is used for years like a vintage stock. This dish takes time and patience but it is not difficult to make and much of the work can be done several hours in advance. It is an impressive dish for any special dinner party. Serves 2 Enjoy! 14. bluebottle, cumbernauld / 8:41am 15 Nov 2007 I think pigeons played a major part in saving many lives during the second war. At that time the government actively culled sparrowhawks and other predators of pigeons. Interesting to see the allegiance of the scots public lies more with the thrill of the chase and the kill with no thought of the past. The repeated reference to survival of the fittest does not stand up. If this were the ethos then nothing would be protected. 15. GP / 9:22am 15 Nov 2007 Most of the posters on here have no idea whatsoever about either pigeons or hawks. this is clear from their statements. 12# Sparrowhawks DO NOT catch slow pigeons. They cannot catch them in flight. They attack them by using surprise and being unable to carry them off must kill the by pecking and plucking at them until death. This is a very slow process. The sparrowhawk is so named because it predates on our song birds in the main. It is responsible for the massive decline in these over the past 20 years. To talk about racing pigeons as human food then given they are quite small in comparison with a wood pigeon it would seem like a lot of work. Racing pigeons did save many lives in the past 2 wars, no raptor has saved any life ever. More Dickin medals (animal equivalent of VC) were won by pigeons than any other animal during the wars. A couple of Scottish birds being very prominant. It's a pity these birds did their job so well, as no doubt some of the posters here would not have been born into a free society otherwise. It was a homing pigeon that NOAH released not a hawk. The wild street pigeons would not be there in such numbers if people were cleaner. They live of our waste, so blame yourselves and think just how much more rubbish would be around without them. Remember if there are lots of pigeons above ground how many rats are then on the ground? It is you lazy wasters that create the problem, the street pigeon only reacts to the availability of food and breeds accordingly. To reduce street pigeons simple contraception should used or alternatively the councils could ask their local racing pigeon fanciers to control the numbers. The fanciers being experts could reduce numbers humanley and quickly if requested to do so. Seagulls are not predated on by hawks and I doubt that they will reduce until streets are cleaner. 16. Farmernot, oan ma traictor / 9:30am 15 Nov 2007 #10 Chris....spot on and you could add man eats chicken and red meat.....moan the speug hawks !!!! Get intae thae doos !!!!! 17. Wini, Scots in England / 9:51am 15 Nov 2007 I remember watching a sparrowhawk kill a pigeon many years ago in a park close to our town centre. They were in flight and the agility and sheer speed of both were astonishing. The pigeon made a mistake and tried to fly through a window, hitting it with a loud bang. He almost recovered but before he could recover his flight the hawk hit him with cruel talons extended. Badly wounded the pigeon, a beautiful creature, fell and was seized on the ground by the hawk which savagely plunged her cruelly sharp beak deep into his neck. I was horrified and ran over shouting and drove the savage hawk away. But the pigeon remained on the ground. As I examined the poor creature I could see no obvious wound until I gently moved the feathers on his neck, and there was a deep puncture. But as I looked, a bead of bright red blood appear from his beak and he died. I was very upset by this experience and I have never had any liking for carnivores, which, to me, appear as a type of parasite. A non-symbiotic one. I cannot understand those that do. The creature I most admire is the African bison/cattle, which is very strong, intelligent and courageous. It will attack and kill the parasitic big cats to defend itself and it’s young. There was a video on Utube showing just that. The BBC also showed lions attacked to the obvious horror of the commentator, who clearly had a great admiration for big cats, which I did not share. Will evolution produce a savage sparrowhawk killing pigeon ? Look what evolution did for us monkeys ! 18. Partan, Fife / 10:05am 15 Nov 2007 #15 GP Lot of truth in what you say there, but some might argue that raptors employed by falconers have filled manys the belly over the millennia. Should we judge other creatures solely on their usefulness or recreational value to man? #17 Wini Bit florid, is it not? Loaded with words like "cruel" and "parasite". These beasts obviously cannot do anything other than what they are designed to do. 19. Wini, Scots in England / 10:25am 15 Nov 2007 They were in flight and the agility and sheer speed of both were astonishing - the pigeon, clearly a racing one, swooped into a steep dive and then suddenly extended his wings wide to come to an abrupt standstill, at about ten foot above the ground. He then spun in mid-air and again diving in the opposite direction at full speed with terrific acceleration to the ground skimmed across the grass almost touching it, I could see his track as the grass moved under him, then suddenly straight up to around ten foot again, flipped over, and, diving, raced towards what appeared to be a narrow aperture in a building wall. But it was not. It was a window, and a fatal mistake. The hawk was no less spectacular. Following the pigeon so closely that several times they almost touched, I could see her partially extend her claws several times. The sight of her spreading her huge wings to follow the pigeon’s abrupt mid-air standstill, with the massive main flight feathers spread wide to grip the air is a sight that I shall never forget. She could not have got through the small aperture safely and was already turning away when the pigeon hit the glass at full speed. How the glass stood the blow, or why the pigeon was not killed outright I just do not know. If the window had been an open aperture then he would of escaped for the hawk, built for short bursts of energy, could not have caught the high endurance and agile racing pigeon. I remove his little body and placed it in a sheltered corner so the Hawk could not eat him. I felt he deserved to escape. 20. Wini, Scots in England / 10:26am 15 Nov 2007 18. Partan, Fife A real life personal experience. 21. Tweedmouth / 10:29am 15 Nov 2007 The idea that predators and prey are in any way 'separate' is an illusion. In reality all predators and all prey species have evolved together over hundreds of millions of years. Predators will always target the weak, the sick, the old, the mentally deficient - because they are easier to catch. Lions will always single out a weak or old wildebeest or gazelle - rather than waste energy trying to catch a fit one. Sparrowhawks have been around far longer than human beings and their 'relationship' with sparrows, pigeons and other birds has been established for many, many millions of years. It is a paradox but true that the speed and beauty of the pigeon has been 'created' by the sparrowhawk and the peregrine. Any pigeon which was slow was caught and eaten - so its genes were removed from the game. So only the faster pigeons survived to breed - and the species got faster and fitter. In response the peregrines which were too slow died off and even faster peregrines evolved - which forced the pigeons to become faster - and so on to eternity. Predator and prey and not separate - they are partners in an evolutionary 'dance' which makes both species faster, fitter, more intelligent as time goes on. Pigeon fanciers should really thank birds of prey since it is the predators which have created the fast birds they so admire. 22. fresian, EDINBURGH / 10:41am 15 Nov 2007 #12, I think in the SHU should be providing this information to all the Road Safety lobbyists. It can clearly be shown that Speed does not Kill. Or perhaps the SHU believe that by slowing birds down, the sport will somehow become safer in the same way the FIA and FIM have treated Formula 1 and Moto GP. 23. Wini, Scots in England / 11:00am 15 Nov 2007 21. Tweedmouth <<Lions will always single out a weak or old wildebeest or gazelle - rather than waste energy trying to catch a fit one.>> Weak - unfortunately this usually means a very young one, and it's vunerable mother. Which I find horrific. 24. Wini, Scots in England / 11:00am 15 Nov 2007 21. Tweedmouth That was a very interesting post. 25. Partan, Fife / 11:00am 15 Nov 2007 #20 Wini Wasn't doubting you at all, just felt it could do without the loaded words. Recently saw a young peregrine chase a migrating thrush in off the sea, stooping again and again, but couldn't follow through because the thrush was so close to the waves. When they reached land, the thrush promptly vanished in the rocks and the falcon was so close to us I could see it gaping. (panting) Quite something. 26. Nellie / 11:31am 15 Nov 2007 # 15. Tosh! There is no scientific evidence to support your claim that preditor birds like the Sparrowhawk are responsible for the decline in song birds. On the contrary, the evidence is very unclear. However, what scientific study HAS shown is that the most significant predator of garden birds - apart from Man - are domestic cats. Shall we cull THEM?! My own observations show this, too. Living in a dormatory town on the edge of farm land, we are frequently visited by a pair of Sparrowhawks as well as cats. By a good margin, the birds killed in my garden are victims of cats. It's easy to tell because the feathers are all around the garden. They don't descriminate in my garden, either - they'll take the garden birds if they can, although they seem to prefer Collared Doves. The Sparrowhawks mostly take Collared Doves, leaving the feathers in a neat pile or ring on the lawn. They also get the occasional Greenfinch. However, they have not killed any Blackbirds, Thrushes, Tits, Robins, not even House or Hedge Sparrows in my garden although last year I did find the remains of one Dunnock. That's it! The scientific study also found that a balance occurs - where birds are in abundance so are the predator birds AND the cats. Where the birds are not in abundance, the predator birds are rare to find ... but the CATS are ALWAYS there, picking off the Thrushes, Blackbirds, House Sparrows (fairly rare these days) and anything else that's got feathers. # 21 Quite rght. 27. Nellie / 11:39am 15 Nov 2007 Correction: I meant to say the Sparrowhawks visitn my arden have not killed and TREE Sparrows, not Hedge Sparrows, which (of course) are also known as Dunnocks, and one of these was taken by a Hawk. I might add that cat attacks frequently do not result in the instant death of a bird. If the bird escapes with a claw or tooth puncture, they almost alwasy die unless the bird can be given antibiotics to tackle the nasty bacteria cats carry on their teeth and claws. Trouble is the victims are generally too far gone by the time they can be caught to take to a vet. However, the highly adaptable Feral pigeons are great survivors, and they do better than most other birds after a cat attack. 28. Henpen, desk / 12:17pm 15 Nov 2007 Leave the sparrowhawks alone. Totally agree with #4 & #5. And have printed off the #11 recipe... (although we tend to shoot to control numbers rather than to eat!) How can the pigeon racers ask for a cull on this raptor when there are hundreds of young pheasants taken every year by other birds of prey & (the vast majority) of land owner have to just get on with it & count their looses - to their lively hood - not their part time hobby!!! 29. GP / 1:28pm 15 Nov 2007 21# You are completely and utterly wrong. The sparrwohawk does not take weak or slow flying pigeons. By stating this you show your lack of knowledge. the only major player in raptor terms for taking racing pigeons in flight is the peregrine. For the other posters who describe attacks by sparrowhawks on birds. The male sparrowhawk which is smaller needs to take an abundant amount of smaller birds because of it's small size. It therefore needs to kill many more songbirds than the hen which can kill a pigeon, but not during flight. The cock sparrowhawk cannot kill a pigeon. The hen however attacks by surprise as I explained their typical attack on all birds is that of sneak by flying low and swooping up over walls fences etc. To Nellie who lives in cloud cuckoo land I can assure you that predation by sparrowhawks and magpies have dealt the biggest blow on our songbirds. Most house cats wear bells etc. those owned by decent owners that is. Feral cats do kill an awful lot of birds and I would cull them. The Raptor Protection Society Brigade won't tell you any of the above you have to get off yer *expletive removed* and investigate. 30. Farmernot, oan ma traictor / 1:44pm 15 Nov 2007 Nature as it was intended......predator and prey in all walks of life. 31. Saoghal Beag / 1:58pm 15 Nov 2007 Oh where do we get them from? Nice pigeon, nasty raptor that eats other pretty birdies, for goodness sake that is the type of thinking that i'd hope most folk leave behind in primary school. raptors, as top predators in a food chain [play an important role in the regulation of that food chain as they temselves are also regualted by that food chain. Too many raptors means a drop in their food source which menas that the raptors start to starve and numbers reduce allowing the food source levels to increase. pingeon fanciers do want so many raptors then they should stop unbalancing the food chain. as for pigeons, feral pigeons leave rats standing. pigeons carry more diseases than rats and they are generally more infectious diseases. they can represent a significant health hazard and a bit of ocntrol on their numbers is no bad thing. 32. GP / 3:57pm 15 Nov 2007 31# List these infectious diseases that pigeons carry! Plus this is not in my mind only about pigeons it is about our song birds. The massive uncontrolled increase in sparrowhawks has meant that over the last 15 to 20 years we have witnessed a massive decine in our song birds or prey birds for those who like these killers. During this same period the farming industry reduced use of pesticides, increased non cultivated land by the largets ever amount, planted more hedgrows and trees all this and yet the decline in our song birds has been down to cats. Utter nonsense. Your children and their children will soon not know what a song bird sounds like or looks like. Their numbers have dwindled from previous highs created by man through raptor control down to new lows again created by man (RSPB) through protection of raptors. None of this is difficult to understand but if people are afraid to face the truth then so be it. Personally I prefer the song birds to be plentifull at the price of some of the raptors and many magpies. The sparrowhawk is NOT in danger whilst most if not all our song birds are. For confirmation check with the BTO. 33. GP / 4:00pm 15 Nov 2007 for those in doubt. Peter Tobin is a raptor! 34. Farmernot, at hame / 4:04pm 15 Nov 2007 #33 GP....you are a complete moron.......you should be ashamed of such a remark 35. GP / 4:13pm 15 Nov 2007 He is a parasite who has killed and adds no value to this world. He should be culled. 36. sam the god / 4:46pm 15 Nov 2007 #28 henpen here is some more recipies for you. PIGEON AND BEEF CASSEROLE (SERVES 7) I large onion, diced 2tbsp olive oil 2 cloves of garlic chopped 900g/2lb stewing beef cubed 8 pigeon breasts cubed 50g/2oz flour 3 large carrots sliced 2 sticks of celery sliced 225g/1/2 lb mushrooms halfed 1 tin chopped tomatoes 1tbsp tomato puree 1 tbsp fresh rosemary 275 ml/1/2 pt red wine 2tbsp redcurrant jelly 12 pitted prunes Salt and pepper METHOD Fry the onion in olive oil until soft. Add garlic and fry for two minutes, then remove to a plate. Coat the beef and pigeon in flour and then brown in the remaining oil. Remove the meat to a plate and add the carrots, celery and halved mushroom Fry off for three minutes. Transfer the onion, meat and the rest of the ingredients to a casserole. Season well with salt and pepper: Put on the lid and pop into a pre-heated oven at 180°c350°F/gas mark 4 for four hours. Check and stir occasionally Serve with ma' potatoes and winter vegetables GUIDWIFE’S PIGEON SOUP (serves 6-8) 1litre 1 3/4pt pigeon stock 2 large onions. finely diced 50g/2oz butter 2tbsp chutney I tbsp cornflour Sherry Salt and pepper METHOD Make a rich stock out of pigeon carcases, celery, onion, carrot and bouquet garni. Saute the onions in the butter until they begin to caramelise, then add the chutney and cook until it begins to look like toffee. Pour in the stock and b to the boil. Mix the cornflour a little sherry, and stir into, the soup until it thickens. Season to taste. STUFFED PIGEON BREASTS (serves 4) 8 pigeon breasts 8tsp of garlic cream cheese 5g/2oz flour 1 egg. beaten Breadcrumbs Oil METHOD With a sharp knife, make a pocket in each pigeon breast and insert the cream cheese. Coat in flour dip in the egg and then cover in breadcrumbs. Deep-fry the breasts in oil for three or four minute shallow fry in a mixture of and butter for three minute on each side. SAUTEED PIGEON BREASTS (serves 4) 8 pigeon breasts 1oz seasoned flour 50g/2oz butter 1 tbsp redcurrant jelly 1 tbsp red wine 1tbsp cream 1 garlic clove crushed a few drops of balsamic vinegar salt and pepper METHOD Cut the breasts into thin strips and coat in flour: Saute in foaming butter for one minute on each side. Remove to a dish. Add the remaining ingredients to the pan and allow to bubble for a few seconds, then pour over the breasts. Serve immediately 37. bluebottle, cumbernauld / 5:03pm 15 Nov 2007 I seem to be missing something here. what is natural about an organisation with the resources of the rspb assisted by the legislature artificially protecting raptors? this is not natural this is assisted and active species extermination. any bird in the food chain is being used artificially to ensure the overpopulation of our countryside with raptors. who decides the line of destruction? one species is more important than another. the desperate need for the rspb to ensure kills are available for the fundraising voyeuristic bloodsport and experiencing the kill that is provided by the extermination of other species is sickening. natural no. 38. fjw1972, stirling / 6:14pm 15 Nov 2007 Sparrowhawks? I say kill them all. What's the World coming to when a chaps sport is ruined with all this wildlife that seems to be infesting the British countryside. It's disgusting! Why now that they've banned dog fighting, bear baiting and tearing foxes to pieces the only sport left is that of pointlessly flying prey items around the sky and then complaining when they get eaten. 39. fjw1972, stirling / 6:20pm 15 Nov 2007 number 15....what are you on about? Dickens medals....? What the dickens. If we didn't start wars in the first place....you get my point (possibly not). Raptors do prefer to take weak or slow birds (as with any carnivore) as it takes less energy to catch them. Heres the biggie though, the sparrowhawks were here first and are an integral part of the eco system. Not like your utterly pointless, flappy, domestic winged rat. You want to cull a spieces because it ruins your fun. I'd call it inhumane except that it's entirely human. 40. GP / 6:46pm 15 Nov 2007 Not my sport or fun. I was in the main defending a cull of a useless species that predates on our songbirds. Dickin medals awarded to racing pigeons through the two wars - none of these birds asked to go to war *expletive removed*. their owners didn't vote for war either. These birds were sequestrated from their owners to go on and save many lives. A pity your parents didn't educate you a bit more. Pity your parents had you in fact, what waste. 41. fjw1972, stirling / 7:38pm 15 Nov 2007 Nice guy. I'm probably better educated than you, certainly better informed and without a doubt far less biased. Why is a sparrowhawk useless? May as well call songbirds useless, although maybe a robin once won a 'what the dickens' medal for flapping down to the local shop for a Sun newspaper for your household thereby justifying it's existance in your eyes. Pigeon owners? How do you know their owners didn't vote for war? Did you conduct a pigeon owner survey covering both world wars? Wow. You've even made it sound like the poor pigeon got packed off to the war with a flat cap and sandwiches to defend us against the hun. Thank God for percy pigeon, without whom Mr Hitler would be in 10 Downing Street. 42. fjw1972, stirling / 7:50pm 15 Nov 2007 There's also the small matter of songbird decline. No-one knows for sure (not even you). And if you think for a second that 21,000 sparrowhawks in a country the size of Scotland are responsible for 70-90% decrease in some birds then you must be madder than you sound. Farming methods have probably got more to do with it. I've also heard a rumour that with no Huns to fight, racing pigeons have been throwing their 'what the dickins' medals in the bin and turned to eating garden birds. I suggest we cull them. 43. fjw1972, stirling / 7:56pm 15 Nov 2007 Sorry Gp, Hard to let this go. In comment 15 are you suggesting that we give pigeons condoms to limit their numbers? How will they get them out of the wrapper? 44. fjw1972, stirling / 8:02pm 15 Nov 2007 GP? Where are you GP? This is the most fun i've had in ages. I don't generally get to have anything to do with societie's unfortunates like yourself unless ITV news shows clips of The Jeremy Kyle Show. More pigeon sexual health wisdom please, i'm getting withdrawl symptoms. 45. Haleakelaman, Auld grey city / 8:12pm 15 Nov 2007 Can't they cull the seagulls, crows and pidgeons in our cities? They are a hygiene risk. While they're at it poison all the rats as well. We used to get a load of racing pidgeons waiting for me to leave for work after feeding my flock of hens. Not any more thanks to a faithful old BSA. 46. Haleakelaman, Auld grey city / 8:15pm 15 Nov 2007 #17 So you'll be starving to death then? 47. Haleakelaman, Auld grey city / 8:27pm 15 Nov 2007 #17 Are you suggesting the sparrowhawk should have turned away because the pidgeon flew into a window? Damn smart sparrowhawk then. Remember other animals on this Earth don't reason like humans. 48. wildminx, Perthshire / 8:58pm 15 Nov 2007 So let's re-cap here - Mr Marsden wants to commit the crime of killing birds of prey in order that he can continue to "protect" the pigeons that he keeps captive in order to continue this historic hobby of pigeon racing. While he is lobbying for this, why doesn't he ask to waive the law on the crime of badger digging/baiting to allow the baiters to continue their age old sport. Or...just make it legal to kill all birds of prey so that grouse and other stock are never depleted. Did I just take that too far?? What we have all drifted away from here is the fact that it is a crime. It's against the law and the law is there for a reason. Why has it taken Mr Marsden and his fancier colleagues so long to realise that this hobby has no place in today's world. Give it up Mr Marsden! 49. bartholmew, lanarkshire / 9:45pm 15 Nov 2007 if you have never seen a sparrowhawk eat a bird alive it is very disturbing to see the bear flesh stripped from the poor bird while it screams in agony why does the rspb state a sparrowhawk eats three to four birds a day! to survive will that not take a toll on the songbirds try asking the ex rspb members who have set up save our songbird survival group 50. IanBr, Falkirk / 10:20pm 15 Nov 2007 Not everyone enjoys seeing a bird eaten alive. What is being requested is the right to protect their own birds from persistent attacks in their own gardens. Some of your ‘magnificent’ birds of prey don’t seem capable of hunting, or have become so used to being fed food scraps by so-called ‘conservationists’ before and after being released into the wild, that they just can’t be bothered hunting, so they pick on soft targets like pigeon lofts, game bird aviaries and garden bird tables instead. Noble savages? I think not. The real savages are the people who support that very one-sided state of affairs. The law provides for licensed removal of birds of prey where they cause problems for other classes of bird. What is being asked is that the law be applied.
just ask me Posted January 21, 2008 Report Posted January 21, 2008 i lost 6 cocks last year before season just let out my cocks today for first time and got hit im sick of it was a big hen falcon i cured the problem last year but no one else in my area seems to be doing a thing im so mad im down 2 cocks really thinking of leaveing the sport if members wont help them selves like i cant keep pigeons like this to much work goes into feeding these birds im in a build up area so limted to what i can do really something has to be done pll think ets will kill our sport its a minior problem towards what were faceing in he sky
jimmy white Posted January 26, 2008 Author Report Posted January 26, 2008 can any body help perigrines are the ones that hit them in the air [amongst others] the sparrowhawks are the most dangerous around the loft [also many falcons,] allthough the rspb set up nest boxes for these birds in order they should multiply [totally against nature] but these birds enjoy the same protection as any garden bird,,,such as robins and sparrows, ironically ,,the ones they consume with such gusto unfortunately theres not a lot [apart from whats being done by some unions] that can be done unless the law changes????,, meanwhile , there are some , so called detterrrents such as a tape of the eagle owl [tammy would help you there] cd discs ,, rockets, arson traps to cartch and release them elsewhere? my advice would be to contact the" songbird survival group ", previusly mentioned in this thread
just ask me Posted January 29, 2008 Report Posted January 29, 2008 thank for ure reply jimmy but this one a falcon i know my birds at that she a big one real big i live in a esate with small back yard dont think the traps work in a build up erea if u think diff let me know will try anything really prob is its when birds fly over a football feild colse to me that when she strikes she will actually chase them to it and kill there im so pissed off with this any help u can give please have rockets going to try these heared they work if they dont work sum more extreme mesusers might have to come in to play
wings Posted February 1, 2008 Report Posted February 1, 2008 i have seen on a regular basis a perigrin flying over my house it just seems to fly over and not bother . but the other day when the birds were out it did the sme thing flew past but 10 mins later it was back but with another one, luckly they didn't take any of the birds but scaredthem enough to have them in bushes under the loft and all over the place. i wish i could say that this was an isolated occassion but it has happened about 4 times now, in the last 6 months,and the birds have only been out about a dozen time since the end of the last seaon. i also have a pair of sparrowhawks kicking about. one day the hen bird had one of my birds in its claws in mid flight, but it dropped it when i shouted and caused a commotion. after that my bird went under the loft, the hawk went over the fence turned and came back and just sat on the gate looking for the bird, maybe people should take the law into there own hands.
Ady Tanase Posted February 9, 2008 Report Posted February 9, 2008 I am Adrian Tanase from Romania and I am pigeons owner. I send you this mail because I have a problem and I want to help my. In august 2003 I was in Dunkreqe city (France) and I rescue a pigeon from the death with number SU 02 S 2561. I want to find the owner addres of mail or a phone number if you want to help my. Thank you ady_tanase2006@yahoo.com
raptor Posted March 3, 2008 Report Posted March 3, 2008 Why is it that you all seem to condemn birds of prey in the wild?.............. when you release your pigeons you must know that there is a chance that a raptor will if given the opportunity try to take one out...............We as falconers try to deter our birds from chasing pigeon as they will take the hawk to far away and it may result in a lost bird. I don't and never have trained a falcon to take out pigeon and few falconers ever will. Wild Peregrines will take out racing pigeons flying across there territory but they are only doing what nature intended them to do............. Sparrowhawks will learn where easy prey is kept and will get quite brave in trying to take them out............. to the point where they will ignore humans in the hope of an easy meal. We also have to watch out for spars when we weather certain birds on the lawn as spars will and have killed raptors on the block/bow. I see there is a post on here that wishes bird flu would kill all raptors!!........ well imagine a bird flu that would kill all pigeons and falconers wishing it to happen!.....not a nice thought really is it? If you release pigeons to fly in the wild then you have to expect casualties as that is par for the course.
Tony C Posted March 3, 2008 Report Posted March 3, 2008 If you release pigeons to fly in the wild then you have to expect casualties as that is par for the course. Is wild birds being hunted for fun and not food par for the course also?
Merlin Posted March 3, 2008 Report Posted March 3, 2008 Raptor Peregrines are essential in the natural order of things,and no sane fancier would wish for their total demise,they are actually in my own opinion a beautiful bird but sadly to days scenario is anything but natural,with sparrow hawks and peregrines vastly overpopulated in all areas,consequently in such large amounts they are responsible for carnage amongst pigeons and native birds almost nationwide, very few predators have ever needed protection,nature decrees this,and the protection afforded these on an ongoing basis has and will have serious effects on all type of birds,especially racing pigeons,who are in the main responsible for their breeding explosion ,and its a matter of time I believe till again,its a them or us situation is realized,and sadly its possibly the hawks who will be the losers,as you know man is the supreme predator.
SakerSam Posted March 3, 2008 Report Posted March 3, 2008 Shouldn't WE as bird handlers care about all birds and NOT just what we deem as ours? I am a falconer and as Raptor stated earlier, I don't know anyone except Pest Controllers, that train and fly their raptors at pigeons. I have on several occaisions had 2 of my falcons grounded by local Peregrines whilst thw breeding season is under way. If my birds ever did get killed or injured by a wild Peregrine or Sparrowhawk, I would accept it as a natural occurance. Falconers DO NOT train and hunt with their birds purely and simply for 'sport' but for food for both the bird and for the table which is what falconers have done so for 4000 years or more. Our birds are normally trained on game and not 'vermin', with the exception of rabbits and corvids. There is also a fine of £5000 per raptor which has been killed, and threads like this one do your cause no good what-so-ever. A number of people have already noticed that a number of posts have been deleted today but the thread has already been copied :X I expect I will be banned after this post but you really need to wise up and lesrn the facts about raptors. Yes, I guess a few of your racers might get taken but the majority of your birds will more often than not be faster and considerably more fitter compared to their wild cousins and raptors will always opt for the easier quarry. A Peregrine is not going to expand energy chasing a fit racer compared to a fat Woody or ferral pigeon.
raptor Posted March 3, 2008 Report Posted March 3, 2008 Raptor Peregrines are essential in the natural order of things,and no sane fancier would wish for their total demise,they are actually in my own opinion a beautiful bird but sadly to days scenario is anything but natural,with sparrow hawks and peregrines vastly overpopulated in all areas,consequently in such large amounts they are responsible for carnage amongst pigeons and native birds almost nationwide, very few predators have ever needed protection,nature decrees this,and the protection afforded these on an ongoing basis has and will have serious effects on all type of birds,especially racing pigeons,who are in the main responsible for their breeding explosion ,and its a matter of time I believe till again,its a them or us situation is realized,and sadly its possibly the hawks who will be the losers,as you know man is the supreme predator. I agree with you and many other falconers would as well............. we need to get licences again to take from the wild but our hands are tied...........there are too many spars, peres and buzzards now in the wild causing it's own problems........I keep and breed fantail doves.they breed and fly free.......last year I had over 30 birds taken by a spar.......... carnage to say the least.............. but as a falconer I have to accept that letting my doves fly free they are at risk...heartbreaking but lawfully I can do nothing.
THE FIFER Posted March 3, 2008 Report Posted March 3, 2008 what do you class as in the wilds, ? is peoples back gardens in the wilds ? i dont think its nature for birds of pray being in towns and back gardens, in the country yes,
raptor Posted March 3, 2008 Report Posted March 3, 2008 Is wild birds being hunted for fun and not food par for the course also? That is a bit of a sweeping statement...............I personally have never hunted anything just for fun........... All I take is either eaten or goes into the food chain for my birds......I eat game and rabbit which is mainly what I hunt..............Most good falconers will only hunt what they eat..there are those that will kill for killings sake but that applies to those who shoot as well...........fact of life sadly.
SakerSam Posted March 3, 2008 Report Posted March 3, 2008 what do you class as in the wilds, ? is peoples back gardens in the wilds ? i dont think its nature for birds of pray being in towns and back gardens, in the country yes, They were there LONG before the towns and cities :K) like most things, man wants.....man takes 8)
Merlin Posted March 3, 2008 Report Posted March 3, 2008 Strange things facts,we as people in the know Falconers,Gamekeeper,Shooters,Pigeon Fanciers,Grouse Breeders,Wild Bird Fanciers,or mostly any person with what I would term a hands on approach regarding birds,hobby,sport,earning a living,and all the relevant expenditure involved with same,why cant we get together as one,tell these headless ^bodies^ its wrong for so many reasons,even for the reasons they are protecting,who are these people making such unwise decisions,where is their monies to implement their decisions come from,the status quo will not prevail indefinitely,what happens if racing pigeons becomes a no no,and wild birds are wiped out,whats left then skies full of raptors,no there will come a time when people realize enough is enough,now you tell me what happens.
raptor Posted March 3, 2008 Report Posted March 3, 2008 what do you class as in the wilds, ? is peoples back gardens in the wilds ? i dont think its nature for birds of pray being in towns and back gardens, in the country yes, I class everything as in the wild..................when a bird takes to the air it doesn't matter whether it is over the countryside or a town or city............ A lot of habitat has been destroyed over the years and driven lot's of animals towards towns and cities like the fox etc,.......... one of the main causes of birds like sparrowhakws etc coming into towns and cities is bird tables..people feed wild birds and create a dinner table for raptors.............a spar will revisit a bird table often as it is easy kills for it.....so it is inevitable that it will come across pigeon lofts on it's travels..........
SakerSam Posted March 3, 2008 Report Posted March 3, 2008 If there is no quarry for raptors, they will not breed......................then they will die out. This is natures way, lots of species have made a decline over the past 30 years, the Barn owl was one but now because of farmers and land owners leaving a few meters of left ground around the feilds the mice, voles and other critters re-establish and the population slowly builds up. Just like the Peregrines in towns and cities. Because of all the ferral pigeons, the raptors thrive; if over the coming years the ferrals etc. deminish drastically, the raptors will either die out or move on.
raptor Posted March 3, 2008 Report Posted March 3, 2008 AS REGARDS TO BIRDS OF PREY WE MAY HAVE SOME GOOD NEWS ARISING WITH THE BIRD FLU VIRUS BECAUSE IT HAS BEEN CONFIRMED ON THE 26TH MARCH THAT THE FIRST PEREGRINE FALCON HAS DIED OF THE HN51 VIRUS AND WITH A BIT OF LUCK IT WILL SPREAD TO ALL RAPTORS. What a sad statement that is................you do nothing with quotes like that to get anyone outside of the fancy onside................ :
raptor Posted March 3, 2008 Report Posted March 3, 2008 Strange things facts,we as people in the know Falconers,Gamekeeper,Shooters,Pigeon Fanciers,Grouse Breeders,Wild Bird Fanciers,or mostly any person with what I would term a hands on approach regarding birds,hobby,sport,earning a living,and all the relevant expenditure involved with same,why cant we get together as one,tell these headless ^bodies^ its wrong for so many reasons,even for the reasons they are protecting,who are these people making such unwise decisions,where is their monies to implement their decisions come from,the status quo will not prevail indefinitely,what happens if racing pigeons becomes a no no,and wild birds are wiped out,whats left then skies full of raptors,no there will come a time when people realize enough is enough,now you tell me what happens. Very true............. we or I for one anyway would love to be able to trap and fly wild raptors but we can't.............. I started mowing an 8 acre field last week and had no less than 22 buzzards circling waiting for rodents to appear..............they will starve these birds out of existence by their actions of protection and cause the same problem that they haveover corrected .....the protection for some species is well past it's sell by 'date............but those who decide these rules and regs can't see it as they dwell in city offices............. But I can't and won't condone the poisoning or killing of raptors by anyone as they are to all intents the innocents of democracy gone wrong..............
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