birds of prey

[jimmy white]

contact the shu they need some pics to give to local newspapers to highlight our problem

 

think i will do that bart ,, when i cool down a bit

[jimmy white]

 

TOTALLY AGREE-SEND IT TO THE R.S.P.B AS WELL FOR THEIR COMMENTS!!!!!!!!!!!!1

 

MAJORPET

 

and the same here debbie ,, but the rspb watch this as prooved b4 on my e mail to them ,,,,it was a private email to them from me ,,,yet the answer had pigeon basics on it????

[jimmy white]

       QUEENS PIGEON TRADGEDY.

A PRIZE PIGEON FROM THE QUEENS AWARD WINNING LOFTS. AT SANDRINGHAM IS BELEIVED    DEAD, AFTER IT FAILED TO RETURN FOM A 15 MILE TRAINING FLIGHT.     THE BIRD WAS IN TRAINING FOR A 238 MILE RACE FROM ST. MALO IN BRITTANY TO MALVERN IN WORCESTERSHIRE. THE 1003 ENTRANCE FEE FOR THE RACE , WHICH HAS A TOP PRIZE OF 120003, HAD BEEN PAID, BUT THE BIRD  FAILED TO APPEAR,AND IS BELEIVED TO HAVE FALLEN VICTIM TO A SPARROWHACK.    THE QUEEN, WHO IS PATRON OF  PIGEON ASS,  MAINTAINS A FLOCK OF ABOUT 160 BIRDS AT HER LOFT AT SANDRINGHAM. HER LATE MOTHER WAS ALSO A KEEN PIGEON FANCIER. THE ROYAL LOFTS WAS ORIGINALLY ESTABLISHED WHEN KING LEOPOLD OF THE BELGIANS GAVE SOME RACING PIGEONS TO ALBERT EDWARD, LATER KING EDWARD VII.

 

may i just reiterate my   second  post on raptors [how must they have multiplied since then]

[jimmy white]

     FALCON THREAT TO PIGEON RACING.

PIGEON RACING IS AT RISK OF DYING OUT IN SCOTLANDWITHIN 20 YEARS IF THE NUMBERS OF BIRDS OF OF PREY NORTH OF THE BORDER CONTINUES TO INCREASE UNCHECKED, ACCORDING A LEADING PIGEON FANCIER.   DR. PHILIP LYNCH,THE CHAIRMAN OF THE S,H,U, SAVE OUR SPORT FROM RAPTERS GROUP, HAS CALLED FOR A CHANGE IN LAW TO ALLOW INCREASING NUMBERS OF RAPTORS TO BE KILLED.      THE NUMBER OF SPARROWHACKS AND PERIGRINE FALCONS, WHICHARE CLAIMED TO FEED ON PIGEONS ARE AT RECORD LEVELS AND AN ESTIMATED    120,000  RACING BIRDS ARE BEING KILLED IN SCOTLAND EVERY YEAR.      THE SITUATION IS SO BAD THAT THE RPRA ASS. HAS LOST 2,000 MEMBERS AND THE SHU.300   SINCE THE START OF THE YEAR.   THERE ARE THOUGHT TO BE 4,200 PERIFGRINE FALCONS AND 120,OOO SPARROWHALKS LIVING IN THE U.K. WITH EACH EATING BETWEEN 2 AND 3 BIRDS A DAY.DR. LYNCH SAID  ,,THIS IS A PROBLEM WHICH IS GETTING WORSE.ITS A TERRIBLE WORRY BECAUSE, IF NOTHING IS DONE ABOUT THE UNPRECEDENTED NUMBERS OF RAPTORS, WE WILL SEE A MASSIVE DROP IN THE NUMBERS OF FANCIERS IN 10 YEARS AND WE WONT HAVE A SPORT IN 20 YEARS.   DR. P. LYNCH, WHO HAS BEEN RACING PIGEONS FOR ALLMOST 60 YEARS ADDED THAT HE HAD LOST HALF HIS BIRDS,,,,, THIS YEAR.       RAPTOR NUMBERS HAVE ROCKETED, WHICH HAS BECOME A HUGE PROBLEM FOR OUR SPORT. ,,,,,,,        BUT RSPB RAPTOR, SPECIALIST DUNCAN   ORR_-EWING SAID THAT INDEPENDANT RESEARCH SHOWED  THAT FANCIERS HAD FAILED TO TAKE PRECAUTIONS AGAINST RAPTOR ATTACKS.       PERIGRINES ARE BEING MADE A SCAPEGOAT HERE AND THE FANCIERS REACTION IS JUST GO AND KILL SOMETHING TO SOLVE THE PROBLEM, HE SAID.    IF THEY WERE TO KILL A RAPTOR, THEN, IT WOULD JUST BE REPLACED A FEW DAYS LATER, WITH ANOTHER ONE.       THEY HAVE BEEN GIVEN,,,,,ADVICE,,,,   SUCH AS NOT TO USE RACE ROUTES ALONG THE M74 CORRIDER WHERE THERE ARE LOTS OF PERIGRINES, TO KEEP TH THEIR LOFTS AWAY FROM WOOD LAND COVER,, TO PUT,,,,, MODEL OWLS,,,,,ON  THEIR ROOFS ,AND TO USE PIGEONS WITH A WHITE RUMP, BECAUSE RESEARCH SHOWS ,THEY ARE LESS LIKELY TO BE ATTACKED, BUT OUR EXPERIENCEIS THAT FANCIERS ARENT DOING THIS.

 

 

    MAY I POLITELY SUGGEST THAT MR DUNCAN ORR- EWING DO A LITTLE BIT MORE RESEARCH,, THE RSBP ARE A RESPONSBLE ORGANIZATION, AND SHOULD REALLY TAKE A GOOD LOOK AT, THESE REMARKS,,,       AND RECTIFY THEM,     JAMES     WHITE

 

may i also reiterate my first posting on the  problem in 1995    [how they have multiplied ,,,,,,,when does it stop????]

[jimmy white]

thats the pigeon b,g,l ,,,, a buzzard usually scavenges on dead birds , but the perigrine, sparrowhawk goshawk [which are plentyfull] are deadly

[Guest]

There are millions of  photos, but only one or two that really get the message accross..

 

For me, if ever there was a photo that really brings it all home Jimmy, and I suspect for many members of the public if they could see it, it is the blood-smeared window.

 

All the things that you and others have said about the sheer terror these attacks cause are in that photo.

[jimmy white]

after speaking with the s.h.u secy,   Mrs ,   Linda  brooks about this most recent hawk attack , she has kindly asked me to message all fanciers , that any hawk  attacks in the next six weeks or so , should be reported to her, with [if possible] photographic evidence, time , place, newspaper cuttings etc , as this could prove very helpful to ALL PIGEON FANCIERS through out the uk Mrs brooks has only a short time to complete this dossier, if any fanciers could assist her to complete this dossier, I'm sure she would be very grateful ,as all pigeon fanciers , should benefit from this.  

[majorpet]

after speaking with the s.h.u secy,   Mrs ,   Linda  brooks about this most recent hawk attack , she has kindly asked me to message all fanciers , that any hawk  attacks in the next six weeks or so , should be reported to her, with [if possible] photographic evidence, time , place, newspaper cuttings etc , as this could prove very helpful to ALL PIGEON FANCIERS through out the uk Mrs brooks has only a short time to complete this dossier, if any fanciers could assist her to complete this dossier, I'm sure she would be very grateful ,as all pigeon fanciers , should benefit from this.  

 

just been in touch with s.h.u.and suggested they should put this in B.H.W. AND THE R.P.as its too important just to ask one guy to " PASS IT ON" makes you wander if they really know how bad things are-only 6 weeks!!!!! why rush such an important job?

 

majorpet

 

 

 

 

[jimmy white]

 

just been in touch with s.h.u.and suggested they should put this in B.H.W. AND THE R.P.as its too important just to ask one guy to " PASS IT ON" makes you wander if they really know how bad things are-only 6 weeks!!!!! why rush such an important job?

 

majorpet

 

 

 

 

possibly reasons for this majorpet??,,

 

having had  a thorough look at all hawk posts etc, there's a couple of questions I'm not sure about?   firstly , looking back at defras ,e mail to me reply 161, answered by  Christine rumble, species advisor ,defra,, qoute part of e mail  " in the wildlife and countryside act  1981" the act", section 1 [6] of the act EXCLUDES any bird which can be shown to have been bred in captivity, the parent birds may therefore not be protected, if it shows these are captive birds escapees ,,,,,,the chicks of these birds are protected , as the eggs were laid when the parents were in the wild " unquote ,,,,now there are captive peregrines either released by the rspb or escaped by the rspb ,,or escaped by anyone,,,now according to this "act"  these peregrines are not protected [or cant be protected]  a very fine line here ??

 

secondly, after talking to various gamekeepers , they tell me that the rspb clear peregrines   nests  regularly of pigeon rings,, these rings are never returned to the various unions ,so that the owners, who PAID  for these rings, never get them back,, so in fact the rspb are stealing our pigeon rings ,,,now if this can be proved , can the rspb be charged with theft [as i believe i could prove this ]?? just a thought?

 

and thirdly after trying the" Scotsman " newspaper , about this recent hawk attack, it was fairly obvious , their all for the rspb ,, which does make you think how powerful they are [the rspb]

 

and fourthly i would strongly recommend, that any fanciers , that have any evidence at all , on hawk attacks , to report this , with as much detail as poss , to the s,h u  231a low waters road, Hamilton , ml3 7qn ,, we should be all "pulling from the same rope" when it comes to a situation like this , as this is for the benefit of all fanciers ,be it fancy pigeons , show pigeons, pet pigeons, or racing pigeons   and remember,,,David did beat Goliath

[jimmy white]

although the rspb are a most powerful organization , there are some organizations, more powerful,,,,,,cancer research ,,,, this charity have experienced pro. officers all over the UK,,this charity does have the public's support,,, now as i had mentioned earlier ,, helping a charity , of this strength would do many things,, first and foremost ,help the charity [which I'm sure many of our families have had some relative succumb to this disease]  

I'm quite sure it would be possible to have a" relay fly with pigeons" from north to south and back up again, the shorter the relay distance, the more cities involved, each doing their bit for this charity [and the more publicity] the daffodil is the cancer research logo [or emblem] one tiny daffodil petal pinned on to the rings of the competing birds with cancer research and phone no on it[or members phone no.?]   this, im sure would be a first of this kind, therefore bringing mass news coverage [letting the c,r pro officers do the work, and they would make sure this would have excellent publicity ,for their own good  ]   IF ANY OF THESE PIGEONS THAT WERE INVOLVED FOR SUCH A CHARITY, WERE FOUND TO BE HAWKED OR DEAD OR INJURED BY THE CAUSE OF HAWKS , IM SURE THIS WOULD BRING MASSIVE SUPPORT FROM THE PUBLIC ,,,,,,,,JUST A THOUGHT???

[majorpet]

although the rspb are a most powerful organization , there are some organizations, more powerful,,,,,,cancer research ,,,, this charity have experienced pro. officers all over the UK,,this charity does have the public's support,,, now as i had mentioned earlier ,, helping a charity , of this strength would do many things,, first and foremost ,help the charity [which I'm sure many of our families have had some relative succumb to this disease]  

I'm quite sure it would be possible to have a" relay fly with pigeons" from north to south and back up again, the shorter the relay distance, the more cities involved, each doing their bit for this charity [and the more publicity] the daffodil is the cancer research logo [or emblem] one tiny daffodil petal pinned on to the rings of the competing birds with cancer research and phone no on it[or members phone no.?]   this, im sure would be a first of this kind, therefore bringing mass news coverage [letting the c,r pro officers do the work, and they would make sure this would have excellent publicity ,for their own good  ]   IF ANY OF THESE PIGEONS THAT WERE INVOLVED FOR SUCH A CHARITY, WERE FOUND TO BE HAWKED OR DEAD OR INJURED BY THE CAUSE OF HAWKS , IM SURE THIS WOULD BRING MASSIVE SUPPORT FROM THE PUBLIC ,,,,,,,,JUST A THOUGHT???

 

think you might be on to something-i asked the s.h.u.and the r.p.r.a a few years ago to keep a tally of all the donations from shows etc that pigeon fanciers give to charity-but it was never done.

 

the problem is that the employees of these organisations are not really interested as long as they get their pay at the end of the week

 

majorpet

 

 

[jimmy white]

 

think you might be on to something-i asked the s.h.u.and the r.p.r.a a few years ago to keep a tally of all the donations from shows etc that pigeon fanciers give to charity-but it was never done.

 

the problem is that the employees of these organisations are not really interested as long as they get their pay at the end of the week

 

majorpet

 

 

dont think its the employees that are to blame , after all they are just employees ,, but the secy,s   the bosses  [which the shu secy has been very helpfull in doing her best] but still cant see why all organizations cant work on this together ,[including gamekeepers],,personally i will not rest until something is done, about this problem ,,and beleive me i mean that  >

[Guest]

http://environment.independent.co.uk/nature/article3030536.ece swatch this lot

[majorpet]

 

dont think its the employees that are to blame , after all they are just employees ,, but the secy,s   the bosses  [which the shu secy has been very helpfull in doing her best] but still cant see why all organizations cant work on this together ,[including gamekeepers],,personally i will not rest until something is done, about this problem ,,and beleive me i mean that  >

 

some of us should join the r.s.b.b. and work undecover to find out the real facts and expose them.

 

majorpet

 

 

[EAGLEOWL]

although the rspb are a most powerful organization , there are some organizations, more powerful,,,,,,cancer research ,,,, this charity have experienced pro. officers all over the UK,,this charity does have the public's support,,, now as i had mentioned earlier ,, helping a charity , of this strength would do many things,, first and foremost ,help the charity [which I'm sure many of our families have had some relative succumb to this disease]  

I'm quite sure it would be possible to have a" relay fly with pigeons" from north to south and back up again, the shorter the relay distance, the more cities involved, each doing their bit for this charity [and the more publicity] the daffodil is the cancer research logo [or emblem] one tiny daffodil petal pinned on to the rings of the competing birds with cancer research and phone no on it[or members phone no.?]   this, im sure would be a first of this kind, therefore bringing mass news coverage [letting the c,r pro officers do the work, and they would make sure this would have excellent publicity ,for their own good  ]   IF ANY OF THESE PIGEONS THAT WERE INVOLVED FOR SUCH A CHARITY, WERE FOUND TO BE HAWKED OR DEAD OR INJURED BY THE CAUSE OF HAWKS , IM SURE THIS WOULD BRING MASSIVE SUPPORT FROM THE PUBLIC ,,,,,,,,JUST A THOUGHT???

 

this idea didnt help jane tomlinson she raised thousands upon thousands for cancer reasearch but the nhs trust couldnt afford to give her tablets to help prolong her life.thats what i call helping charity there great accepting your monies but will not stand and fight your corner.

 

 

[Bilco]

EVERY Pigeon fancier CAN help if he or she wants to.  Shut your birds up for the winter, build a good strong 6 ft by 6 ft by 6ft aviary if you haven't got one.

[jimmy white]

 

this idea didnt help jane tomlinson she raised thousands upon thousands for cancer reasearch but the nhs trust couldnt afford to give her tablets to help prolong her life.thats what i call helping charity there great accepting your monies but will not stand and fight your corner.

 

 

i agree ,,,not good ,, i have a disability and receiving "anti tnf treatment" ,, another post code lottery to fit the criteria , this drug [self injection twice per week]has worked marvelous with me, but why should other folk still suffer, and have to do without ,, i had to near fight for this,,,,,,,,,however my posting has a deeper meaning,,

[DOVEScot]

 

i agree ,,,not good ,, i have a disability and receiving "anti tnf treatment" ,, another post code lottery to fit the criteria , this drug [self injection twice per week]has worked marvelous with me, but why should other folk still suffer, and have to do without ,, i had to near fight for this,,,,,,,,,however my posting has a deeper meaning,,

 

Too deep for me Jimmy ;D

No matter what your interest is, then we all fight our corner, the plain truth is just now the RSPB have more muscle in theirs

Pic your fights carefuly and damage them as best you can is the best chance you have of winning

[pj1001]

Raptors website  http://www.bbc.co.uk/northernireland/raptors/

 

Also Lifelife of Britain programe next Wednesday 25th October with Alan Titchmarsh is showing coverage of the relationship between pigeons and peregrines in cities in UK.

 

PJ

[jimmy white]

EVERY Pigeon fancier CAN help if he or she wants to.  Shut your birds up for the winter, build a good strong 6 ft by 6 ft by 6ft aviary if you haven't got one.

 

i agree with this post entirely , but feel this is only aiming mainly at sparrowhawks , which will even enter the aviary , i think the bigger problem is the perigrines , which are rife on the moors in the  borders , these birds are attacking the batches ,maybe killing one, but leaving the rest scattered ,hitting all and sundry [as the rspb say 38 pc of losses are due to "collisions",[this was their verdict 3 years ago,,,,,,,,,,,,, now the libs are less and the perigrines are more] its obvious a pigeon wont fly straight in to a glass window of its own accord??] the protection of these birds should now be altered since the days of ddt, as they have multiplied so much more now..., the rspb ,[ a mighty lot] have all the support from the public , and make a lot of money from the public, so its time we thought of getting the public on our side e,g my post ,,,,,,,and let them know their being duped[ in certain areas], they do a good job in some ways, but mislead the public in others

[Roland]

RSPB have public support ... but does the public know of the damaging effect they have raptures have deverstating the garden birds etc.

Need the PR firm...

[Guest]

Gamekeepers

 

http://www.scottishgamekeepers.co.uk/ well worth a look at this  specially raptors section  

[DOVEScot]

Aye especially this part

 

The SGA is asking for the right to protect our stock and the diversity of wildlife in the countryside and consequently the jobs of gamekeepers across Scotland. The SGA is not calling for raptors to be shot on sight or persecuted in any way.

 

The short-term solutions have been tried and found to be of little effect or physically or financially impossible.

 

Many devices have been used in an attempt to scare or deter raptors from predating our stock. These include: mirrors, tin plates, plastic bags and scarecrows hung up within the areas of release pens. None of the above has proved very efficient. Constant patrolling by a person possibly waving a flag is costly in man-hours and considering the distances required to be covered daily is physically demanding. Patrolling on the uplands to protect grouse populations is physically impossible and the setting up of scaring devices is a non-starter considering the areas in question.

 

The solution to our problem as we see it are changes in the law to allow for the control of raptors to maintain an ecological balance. Some form of quota system or relocation program needs to be seriously investigated if the raptor problem is to be solved to everyone’s satisfaction.

 

Any birds found to be over the stated quota could be controlled providing they are high number species such as buzzards, peregrines or sparrowhawks. For local populations to be assessed nests would have to be found and counted. One nest within the quota area would be left. All others removed.

 

For less numerous species such as kites, harriers, goshawks etc. the extra nest could be removed and eggs hatched elsewhere. The adults could be live trapped and relocated to areas where these raptors can be accepted. Another option would be to *expletive removed*/addle the eggs, thereby stopping the increase of chosen raptor species.

 

It is important to note that many areas of Scotland have no shooting interests and raptors could breed freely in these areas. The numbers would have to be closely monitored to ensure diversity of other species and interests, and local circumstances might dictate leaving pairs where it was sensible to do so.

 

Between the quota system areas and the free breeding areas raptors would continue to thrive and damage would be down to a minimum. All control measures and licences whether lethal or otherwise could be carried out by MAFF or some other body. Gamekeepers do not need to be physically involved in their removal.

 

We urge that ravens and cormorants come under a similar scheme.

 

In areas where raptor populations threatened other birds or pigeon interests a local group could make recommendations to the governing body concerned with this problem.

A copy of the SGA’s evaluation of the raptor working group report, which may illustrate some of our concerns not noted here, is obtainable on request from:The Secretary of the SGA

 

 

[Guest]

Sammy's link to  the Scottish Gamekeepers Association's  Website is a good one.

 

You may recall a series on wildlife crime  was shown on TV recently, and all the criminals featured were Scottish gamekeepers.  ??)   Reading the problems this profession has:-

 

their member's details listed on secret RSPB databases [which is against the law];

 

trying to convince academia that there is a bird of prey / predator balance problem;

 

their calls for lethal sactions authorised under the Act because economic animals are being taken.

 

I wonder if the TV programs were a deliberate attempt at character assassination?

 

 

[EAGLEOWL]

RSPB have public support ... but does the public know of the damaging effect they have raptures have deverstating the garden birds etc.

Need the PR firm...

 

 

http://www.save-songbirds.co.uk/

this is the group all pigeon unions should be backing make this our charity push it into the public demaine,

 

gamekeepers the rspb will not take these people serious and joe public will back the rspb they will throw at them all raptors killed by gamekeepers .

 

the way forward is to make the public aware through education of the destruction to our song birds by the sparrowhawks and peregrines .

 

like the latest news golden eagle killed by poision,now who they getting at with that one.

 

yes ive had raptors for years and studied them carefully ,but i also know the decline in our song birds and the damage they cause to pigeons .

 

as for the argument about pigeons the public are not intrested there flying rats so we are on a none starter there.

 

ive also read about firing rockets before a liberation only problem with that is it  will become like calling your birds in for tea by the peregrines .

 

the rspb love these raptors there great money spinners for them, its like these centres that rescue birds of prey  its easy money from joe public do they do it for  the love of the birds my opinion no ,it beats working charging people to watch you  fly a couple of birds then theres sponsor a bird then they breed and sell them inexperienced people buy them then lose them.

 

save our song birds is the answer to skin this cat ,take out adverts in local and national papers

showing the destruction there doing put pictures of pigeons in the picture then the public will become aware of whats happening get the rspb to reply to the adverts taken out onfacts like why will sparrowhawks kill over a million song birds and valuable racing pigeons a year can we sustain such a loss of wildlife .