Derby Council Cathedral Nest

[Craig05]

just a few of the emails going between myself and Derby Council regarding the nest at the Cathedral.  best to start at the bottom of the thread and read back to the top.  still no response to my email reply on 20th May!  saying that, i probably wont get one

 

Hi Jonathan

Thank you for your quick response, although I do not agree with everything you have said.  

Again this is only my opinion but birds of prey are wild animals and belong in the wild where they could hunt and quite easily survive on wild animals such as rats, mice and other wild birds, rather than being enticed into city centres where they are living off pigeon fanciers pets!  You make mention of allowing children to learn about the species!  I wonder how aware these children are of what racing pigeons did during the war, to not only save the lives of our ansestors but also help to us achieve everything that we have!  I am afraid that you have been miss informed regarding only very old or very young birds being attacked and caught, as on two occasions I have noted race rubber rings in the nest, and I can assure you that only the healthiest, fittest pigeons go to the racepoint due to the competitivness of our sport.   Your comments of over 40 different species of birds being found in the nest is a real concern, by saving and increasing the numbers of these birds of prey it is surely going to have a devistating effect on our song bird population and what are the councils  plans for when these birds become extinct?

 

And finally I agree that your camera's do not show graphic images of birds being caught, but they certainly do broadcast images of our beloved pets being ripped to pieces in the nest.

I am truly disgusted by your scheme and by what you are doing and based on what I have read on one of our pigeon chat sites regarding this topic, so are all the reasonable pigeon men out there.

 

I have every intention of going to the press with these issues as in my opinion by trying to save one species of bird by bringing them out of the wild and into city centres, you are slowly destroying much more than you realise.

 

Thanking you

Kind Regards

Craig Edwards

 

 

 

----- Original Message -----

From: Wallis, Jonathan <Jonathan.Wallis@derby.gov.uk>

To: Craig Edwards

Cc: Customer Services <customerservices@derby.gov.uk>

Sent: Wed May 20 16:56:46 2009

Subject: RE: Peregrine cathedral

 

 

 

*** Before reading or acting on this e-mail, or opening any attachment, please read Derby City Council's disclaimer and confidentiality statement at the end of this e-mail ***

 

     

 

Dear Craig

 

 

 

Thank you for emailing to express your concerns. I can understand your obvious frustrations when you see racing birds that have been specially bred being taken by a wild bird of prey. Whilst some may be active racers, I’m told that most are likely to be old birds or young inexperienced individuals which can be picked off far more easily than strong, fit racers.

 

 

 

Our site does not openly display graphic images of any bird being attacked – only the nest and ledges where prey items are brought back to. Sometimes photos of the birds approaching Derby Cathedral are generally shown. We would not wish to suggest that peregrine falcons do not take racing pigeons at all – yes, rings are seen on the nest cameras from time to time, and this is unfortunate. But you do need to know that over forty different species of bird have so far been taken as prey, including a number of species that many birdwatchers would be delighted to see on a nature reserve. But even though woodcock, golden plover and lapwing are taken in some numbers, neither we, our local ornithological society, our Wildlife Trust nor the RSPB have expressed concerns or made any argument for removing birds of prey from our cities, or for removing the webcameras. Whether the cameras were there or not, peregrine falcons are wild birds and will still hunt, and we cannot change that, nor by our support or interest in them are we promoting animal cruelty.  In fact we welcome the return of peregrines to their former haunts and see their expansion into some urban areas as a sign of an increasingly healthy environment after the disaster of 50 years ago when the species nearly became extinct.

 

 

 

Of course, we do appreciate that tens of thousands of pigeon fanciers up and down the country do put in hours of long hard work into their pigeons. But I’m sure that most are reasonable men and women, and do recognize the many and varied natural and man-made hazards that the birds from their lofts inevitably face. With less than two thousand pairs of peregrines believed to be breeding across the whole UK, and only a handful of nests with webcameras on them, many tens of thousands of adults and schoolchildren are able to get an insight into the lives of a wild bird of prey which would not otherwise be possible and are able to learn a range of valuable conservation and educational lessons.

 

 

 

I appreciate the time you’ve taken to express your concerns, and I hope my reply helps explain our position.

 

 

 

Best wishes

 

 

 

Jonathan Wallis

 

 

 

Jonathan Wallis | Acting Head of Museums | Regeneration and Community | External Tel. 01332 641920  Internal Tel. (424)1920| Minicom 01332 256666 | Derby City Council, Derby Museums and Art Gallery, The Strand, Derby DE1 1BS | www.derby.gov.uk <blocked::http://www.derby.gov.uk/>

 

 

 

Derby City Council - committed to being an Excellent Council

 

________________________________

 

From: Customer Services

Sent: 20 May 2009 10:37

To: 'Craig Edwards'

Subject: RE: Peregrine cathedral

 

 

 

Dear Craig

 

 

 

Thank you for contacting us.  I am forwarding your email for the attention of the management of our Natural History Museum.

 

 

 

Best Regards

 

 

 

Ruth Haywood

 

 

 

Customer Services

 

 

 

________________________________

 

From: Craig Edwards

Sent: 19 May 2009 14:19

To: Customer Services

Subject: Peregrine cathedral

 

 

TO WHOM IT MAY CONCERN

 

I would like to submit an official complaint with regards to your Peregrine web cam on the ledge at the cathedral.  I am absolutely disgusted in what I have seen today.  it is unacceptable for you to display openly how these birds attack and kill racing pigeons!  Two of the pigeons brought back to the nest today clearly have race rings on their legs!  As far as I am concerned this promotes cruelty to animals and who ever thought of this idea should think long and hard about what they are doing.   It is a disgrace and I am sure that pigeon fanciers up and down the country  who put hours of long hard work/money into their pigeons would really appreciate your scheme.

 

 

 

Kind regards,

 

 

 

Craig Edwards

 

[pigeonpete]

well done craig, nice to see you trying!

[OLDYELLOW]

should point out there natural habitat is cliffs not churches  

[Guest]

I hope all Pigeon Fanciers and members of this forum don't adopt the approach that I have been reading.

To say "What's the point of fighting the cause with the RSPB, your on a hiding to nothing" is a totally negative attitude and nothing will be gained if we just sit and do nothing.

As the saying goes "Every little helps said the old lady as she pi$$ed in the sea" and I think if each and every one of us went to our respected clubs and nominated a press officer who can write an article, or maybe contact a local newspaper reporter to arrange a visit. The purpose would be to explain in detail and make the general public aware of what the BOP is doing to the songbird population in the UK. I feel sure that a high percentage of the "Million Donators" (Joe Public) are ignorant and totally unaware of the real facts, and would probably withdraw their support in horror if they knew the real truth, and not the fabricated truth as given by the RSPB.

If we all (33,000 members of the RPRA) set ourselves a target of getting one of those "Million Donators" to withdraw their Annual subscription it would soon knock a big hole in the RSPB coffers.

[DAVIDL]

 

 

what, if anything are the rpra doing about the problem with the falcons/hawks that are having a free for all with our pigeons? :-/

[Leroy]

This is interesting now, because a lady from the RSPB was on radio Lancashire this morning saying that their figures were out about how many species are endangered, including cuckoos and lapwings. Specifically she was saying that part of the reason for cuckoos declining was the reduction in numbers of dunnocks whose nests they use to lay their eggs. We should try to help by encouraging catapillars for them to eat!!!

 

So, I hear this driving to work and decide to phone in, because it is JUST possible that the decline in dunnocks could be something to do with increased numbers of sparrowhawks...perhaps...

 

I also remembered Craig05's post about the peregrines and the RSPB admitting their prey includes lapwings - which this morning they said were also now endangered.

 

So I rang in, and managed about two minutes uninterupted telling the folk of Lancashire that the RSPB have created this problem by asking for money to protect BOP that are artificially high in number and killing off the song birds. I didnt get chance to go onto the pere's and lapwings but every little helps!!!

 

Lee

[OLDYELLOW]

well done Lee you might sound a barmpot to the general public but a voice in the ears of others might just get the point across

[breakaway]

the poor thrush is in decline because of a shortage of snails!!!!!!!!!!    well theres plenty in my garden and the gardens of friends ,just came in and theres a pile of blackbird feathers on the lawn? wonder what happened?

[Peckedhen]

This is interesting now, because a lady from the RSPB was on radio Lancashire this morning saying that their figures were out about how many species are endangered, including cuckoos and lapwings. Specifically she was saying that part of the reason for cuckoos declining was the reduction in numbers of dunnocks whose nests they use to lay their eggs. We should try to help by encouraging catapillars for them to eat!!!

 

So, I hear this driving to work and decide to phone in, because it is JUST possible that the decline in dunnocks could be something to do with increased numbers of sparrowhawks...perhaps...

 

I also remembered Craig05's post about the peregrines and the RSPB admitting their prey includes lapwings - which this morning they said were also now endangered.

 

So I rang in, and managed about two minutes uninterupted telling the folk of Lancashire that the RSPB have created this problem by asking for money to protect BOP that are artificially high in number and killing off the song birds. I didnt get chance to go onto the pere's and lapwings but every little helps!!!

 

Lee

 

Lee, I heard you and you didnt sound like a bampot at all!! Nor did you sound like a fancier trying to protect your racers, just a concerned member of the public, good on you. I sent them a text but they never read it out!

 

Suex

[Leroy]

Cheers  

 

I was fuming at how the woman came on and gave such a one-sided view, not once mentioning the increase in BOP.

[OLDYELLOW]

 

Lee, I heard you and you didnt sound like a bampot at all!! Nor did you sound like a fancier trying to protect your racers, just a concerned member of the public, good on you. I sent them a text but they never read it out!

 

Suex

 

well done both at least one was heard shame cant get to hear it , guess they dint put yours up sue due to lack of time or the great R.S.P.B COVER UP  

[Leroy]

 

Lee, I heard you and you didnt sound like a bampot at all!! Nor did you sound like a fancier trying to protect your racers, just a concerned member of the public, good on you. I sent them a text but they never read it out!

 

Suex

 

Thanks Sue, I was prepared to say I was involved in pigeons but didnt get much chance. The usual host Tony Livesey may have given me more time had he been on, in fact, we use the same gym and he is friends with one of my staff, so it might be worth getting some facts and figures together and seeing if he'd be prepared to give it some more air-time....not sure how much good it will do, but the more people that hear our side of it, the more likely it is that the public will stop lending the RSPB it's support...

[OLDYELLOW]

Well done Lee  , if you get even a few intrested in the plight of our song birds they may become more disalutioned R.S.P.B members that will cease to contribute  

[OLDYELLOW]

even prince Harry was meant to of shot Goshawk werent it perhaps we can get him to help remove the Royal from .R.S.P.B  

[Leroy]

even prince Harry was meant to of shot Goshawk werent it perhaps we can get him to help remove the Royal from .R.S.P.B  

 

i think it was a hen harrier or something similar, sadly they couldnt prosecute without direct corroborating evidence  ;D

[Guest]

Surely now is the time to really push the message home about the incapabilities of the RSPB, especially if they are now beginning to start admitting that they have got their facts wrong. With enough public pressure it wont be long before they start to crumble. Even they are not above ridicule.

[Peckedhen]

Good idea Lee. You've got the balls to go on the radio - I haven't!! : If it could be made good enough, you never know , he might even take it onto NW tonight.

 

(Same gym as me too, except I've slipped a disk so am laid up for a while )

[Leroy]

Good idea Lee. You've got the balls to go on the radio - I haven't!! : If it could be made good enough, you never know , he might even take it onto NW tonight.

 

(Same gym as me too, except I've slipped a disk so am laid up for a while )

 

Slipped disk sounds like an excuse to me!!!   If you need any help with the birds while you're laid up let me know, we are finally due to move house next week so I'll be nearer if you need any assistance, but only with the birds, I dont make a good nurse!!!  

 

 

[pigeonpete]

This is interesting now, because a lady from the RSPB was on radio Lancashire this morning saying that their figures were out about how many species are endangered, including cuckoos and lapwings. Specifically she was saying that part of the reason for cuckoos declining was the reduction in numbers of dunnocks whose nests they use to lay their eggs. We should try to help by encouraging catapillars for them to eat!!!

 

So, I hear this driving to work and decide to phone in, because it is JUST possible that the decline in dunnocks could be something to do with increased numbers of sparrowhawks...perhaps...

 

I also remembered Craig05's post about the peregrines and the RSPB admitting their prey includes lapwings - which this morning they said were also now endangered.

 

So I rang in, and managed about two minutes uninterupted telling the folk of Lancashire that the RSPB have created this problem by asking for money to protect BOP that are artificially high in number and killing off the song birds. I didnt get chance to go onto the pere's and lapwings but every little helps!!!

 

Lee

 

well done leroy! wish i could have heard it! heard on radio 5 live this morning, that lapwings, cuckoos, etc need to be protected due to there decline! mmm common sence? :-(

[Peckedhen]

 

Slipped disk sounds like an excuse to me!!!   If you need any help with the birds while you're laid up let me know, we are finally due to move house next week so I'll be nearer if you need any assistance, but only with the birds, I dont make a good nurse!!!  

 

 

Thanks Lee, that's a kind offer. David is helping out and I've just about finished breeding now so things are not just as hectic in the loft.

 

Good luck with your move, I hope you'll both be happy in your new house.   Now you're over here you'll have to be a Burnley supporter.  UP THE CLARETS!!!!

 

 

[Leroy]

 

Thanks Lee, that's a kind offer. David is helping out and I've just about finished breeding now so things are not just as hectic in the loft.

 

Good luck with your move, I hope you'll both be happy in your new house.   Now you're over here you'll have to be a Burnley supporter.  UP THE CLARETS!!!!

 

 

I kind of am now a token claret, went to wembley and everything!!! It hurt though being a preston fan, I couldnt decide who to shout for!!! and i now know im never going anywhere by coach ever again!

 

 

[pigeonpete]

 

Thanks Lee, that's a kind offer. David is helping out and I've just about finished breeding now so things are not just as hectic in the loft.

 

Good luck with your move, I hope you'll both be happy in your new house.   Now you're over here you'll have to be a Burnley supporter.  UP THE CLARETS!!!!

 

 

off topic there sue! mind wont be many burnley topics, so will let you off ;-)

[les]

so the RSPB tells them that there is only 2thousand breeding pairs [but admit to 5thousand breeding pairs ]  :X

[just ask me]

every little helps   good on ya

[OLDYELLOW]

Good idea Lee. You've got the balls to go on the radio - I haven't!! : If it could be made good enough, you never know , he might even take it onto NW tonight.

 

(Same gym as me too, except I've slipped a disk so am laid up for a while )

 

thats my reason for exercising only with beer never put yer back out drinking a few beers , as for 6 pack i'd rather have my full keg  ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D