fred smyth Posted August 31, 2009 Report Posted August 31, 2009 Page 29 todays Daily Mirror, David Bills speaks out about the perils of racing pigeons and the hawk problem, of course the R S P B insist the more birds are killed by cats than hawks...its a start, now Mr Bills needs to keep it in the national press...do your bit, E-mail the Mirror....mirrornews@mirror.co.uk Keep it clean, get your point across without sounding totally ignorant (which is how a lot of people perceive the racing pigeon enthusiast ) PS NOT MY WORDS COPIED FROM OTHER SITE,,
pigeonpete Posted August 31, 2009 Report Posted August 31, 2009 just read it, i suppose its a little step forward :-)
Guest Posted August 31, 2009 Report Posted August 31, 2009 Could someone cut and paste it here to save us buying what is otherwise a crap newspapers?
pigeonpete Posted August 31, 2009 Report Posted August 31, 2009 havent got a scanner here jamie sorry, and all newspapers are brilliant, keep buying them :-) go and buy 1 you tight git nowt much to read really, i will type it out for you when i get a minute,
fred smyth Posted August 31, 2009 Author Report Posted August 31, 2009 Pigeon fanciers say birds of prey are killing prized flyers - Exclusive By James Lyons 31/08/2009 Pigeon racing is under threat from rising numbers of birds of prey in towns and cities, enthusiasts claim. Peregrine falcons and sparrowhawks are colonising urban areas with the blessing of some councils to help control vermin. But pigeon fanciers say they are eating their prized birds, some worth more than £100,000. David Bills of the Royal Pigeon Racing Association claims they slaughter up to 270,000 pigeons and song birds a day and wants the right to cull them. He said: "The wild pigeon is streetwise whereas the racing pigeon is focused on getting home, oblivious to other things. They are easy prey." Salford MP Hazel Blears has raised the issue in Parliament but said the 50,000 enthusiasts are ignored because of their image. Advertisement - article continues below » She said: "With pigeon racing people think of cloth caps and clogs while falcons are beautiful." She refused to back a cull but said humane ways need to be found to stop them nesting. The RSPB said only a fraction were killed by birds of prey which are recovering "from centuries of persecution" and added: "We're privileged to have them." They claimed most pigeons had accidents when too exhausted or were eaten by cats.
pigeonpete Posted August 31, 2009 Report Posted August 31, 2009 title FLOCKY HORROR Pigeon racing is under threat from rising numbers of birds of prey in towns and cities enthusiasts claim. perigrine falcons and sparrowhawks are colonising urban areas with the blessing of some councils to help control vermin. but pigeon fanciers say they are eating their prized birds, some worth more than £100,000, David bills of the rpra claims they slaughter 270,000 pigeons and song birds every day and wants the right to cull them. he said the wild pigeon is streewise whereas the racing pigeon is focused on getting hom oblivious to other things. they are easy prey, Salford mp hazel blears has raised the issue in parliament but said the 50,000 enthusiasts are ignored because of their image, she said "with pigeon racing people think of cloth caps and clogs while falcons are beautiful. She refused to back a cull but said humane ways need to be found to stop them nesting. The rspb said only a fraction were killed by birds of prey, which are recovering from centuries of persecution and added were privileged to have them. they claimed most pigeons had accidents when too exhausted or were eaten by cats.
pigeonpete Posted August 31, 2009 Report Posted August 31, 2009 and i just typed all mine out!!! ;D ;D
Guest Posted August 31, 2009 Report Posted August 31, 2009 havent got a scanner here jamie sorry, and all newspapers are brilliant, keep buying them :-) go and buy 1 you tight git nowt much to read really, i will type it out for you when i get a minute, You got a vested interest in selling them Pete, lol, more sense in the sport than in the mirror and better eye candy. ;D ;D ;D ;D Just saw it typed so will read it now, thanks poster who helped.
fred smyth Posted August 31, 2009 Author Report Posted August 31, 2009 lol the old copy and paste :) :) did he mean 270000 a year it seems a lot for a day.. jezzzzzzzzzz thats 98,550,000 a year :) :) :)
pigeonpete Posted August 31, 2009 Report Posted August 31, 2009 You got a vested interest in selling them Pete, lol, more sense in the sport than in the mirror and better eye candy. ;D ;D ;D ;D Just saw it typed so will read it now, thanks poster who helped. sports a bout your level :-) picture books are your thing ;D ;D Will tell your wife you always looking at the sport :-) was interviewed i think, by james lyons, political correspondent
Fair Play Posted August 31, 2009 Report Posted August 31, 2009 RSPB record has stuck again,stuck again,stuck again same old rhetoric never the BOP always looking for scapegoats only thing positive I am sure as hell glad cats don't fly
Guest Posted August 31, 2009 Report Posted August 31, 2009 RSPB record has stuck again,stuck again,stuck again same old rhetoric never the BOP always looking for scapegoats only thing positive I am sure as hell glad cats don't fly I thought they did, with a toe up the rear end ;D ;D Latin name for cat is felinus perigrinus :-/ :-/ :-/
Fair Play Posted August 31, 2009 Report Posted August 31, 2009 David Bills must surely keep the momentum going and get the new image of pigeon racing out into the public domain .The amount of monies paid out to charities and other good causes I am sure outstrips any other considering our size and most important our way of life owes a lot to the pigeon without them it could have been "Zieg Heil" instead of "God Save The Queen"
Guest Posted August 31, 2009 Report Posted August 31, 2009 title FLOCKY HORROR Pigeon racing is under threat from rising numbers of birds of prey in towns and cities enthusiasts claim. perigrine falcons and sparrowhawks are colonising urban areas with the blessing of some councils to help control vermin. but pigeon fanciers say they are eating their prized birds, some worth more than £100,000, David bills of the rpra claims they slaughter 270,000 pigeons and song birds every day and wants the right to cull them. he said the wild pigeon is streewise whereas the racing pigeon is focused on getting hom oblivious to other things. they are easy prey, Salford mp hazel blears has raised the issue in parliament but said the 50,000 enthusiasts are ignored because of their image, she said "with pigeon racing people think of cloth caps and clogs while falcons are beautiful. She refused to back a cull but said humane ways need to be found to stop them nesting. The rspb said only a fraction were killed by birds of prey, which are recovering from centuries of persecution and added were privileged to have them. they claimed most pigeons had accidents when too exhausted or were eaten by cats. See, this is the problem we face, what a weak and unrealistic comment Mr. Bills put across. He has to back his comments up with facts or the fancy as we know it will never get heared because unsupported claims like this are absolutely crazy, especially with no evidence to prove it. Do the maths... If you are to believe that 270 thousand birds a day are killed, that's 96 million birds a year? Then you get the wild claim of a bird worth £100,000 getting eaten? Come on, who the hell is going to leave that expensive bird out of the very highest security? I'd have electric fences guarding that wouldn't you? The problem with Mr. Bills is he's not a pigeon man and doesn't listen to anyone especially his members, if he did care he'd stop making wild and unsupported claims like this which does us no favours. Let me enlighten you as to why I'm so annoyed at such a stupid claim. If you were to believe the 270,000 birds a day theory this would mean 96 million birds a year are killed, divide this by 50,000 fanciers and this would mean every single fancier would be losing nearly 2000 birds each every year, insanity. Fair enough he throws into the pot the point that in this 270,000 birds a day that are killed it includes song birds so that could certainly boost the figures up? but to 96 million a year? I'm not so sure? If a rough estimate were asked from say the RSPB on how many birds of prey there are in the UK they would come out with a maximum of 5000 birds, no more, maybe wrong on that one? So that equates to each BOP eating 19,200 birds a year. That would mean each and every BOP would be eating 54 birds a day, every single day of the year? Now I might have been pressing the wrong buttons on the calculator, (Well the wife was doing it while I threw the numbers at her so blame the misses) but seriously, there is no chance on God's earth that these facts would stand up to even the scrutiny of someone like me who used nothing more than a bit of common sense and a calculator. I noted the comment of cloth cap mentioned, when you have wild claims like Mr. Bills is alleged to have made its not cloth caps we should be worried about its cloth brains. There is definately a very serious problem out there and as a flyer who's not escaped the claws of the hawk I know how bad it is but lets not over-exagerate to the degree we are made to look like absolute buffoons. Before the attacks come let me make it clear that I'm not defending the BOP's nor the RSPB, I lose birds every single week without fail, I really do believe there is a very serious problem out there that has to be dealt with but it has to be dealt with in a logical and rational manner with the arguments for the fancy being put across in a fashion that is consistant and more important believable. I believe that talks should be happening but without the likes of Mr. Bills as the representative because he clearly has no idea judging by the alleged comment he makes to a national paper. If we are going to write to the papers and make a case for ourselves we have to make that case realistic and believable. If my maths above are anything to go by then there is more chance of the moon really being made of cheese than that amount of birds a year getting eaten. If I have made a maths error I apologise in advance, I have fat fingers and a small calculator, but however you look at it we need to put a far stronger case across than just plucking a figure from the air if we're going to get any level of credability. JMHO.
pjc Posted August 31, 2009 Report Posted August 31, 2009 The comments etc from the RPRA should be being made directly by them on a regular basis and not just because they have been asked a question by a journalist!
Guest Posted August 31, 2009 Report Posted August 31, 2009 sports a bout your level :-) picture books are your thing ;D ;D Will tell your wife you always looking at the sport :-) was interviewed i think, by james lyons, political correspondent lmao; I'm not the one who stands behind the counter every day with it hidden in the times. ;D ;D ;D ;D Seriously though Pete, read my response above, it makes a hash of the article, and on an even more serious note we really do need to do something about both the problem the percy is causing and the problem of image or capitalize on it. The Sun claims to be the 'working man's paper' if that's the case why not approach them but with a factual case to argue not fictional as it appears in the other paper above. :-/ p.s; My misses likes the sport as well, especially the stories like 'Alien dies eating a cheeseburger'. ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D
Guest Posted August 31, 2009 Report Posted August 31, 2009 A more realistic figure would be Average known strikes per member per annum (5) divided by total members (50,000) and X 2 for strikes out of sight. Even that is a figure far to high. If my maths are right that's 500,000, HALF A MILLION, Divide that by the estimated number of birds of prey (5000) = 100 pigeons alone per annum or 2 per day. A MORE REALISTIC FIGURE
Guest Posted August 31, 2009 Report Posted August 31, 2009 Good post Bob, As good as your figures are Bob I'm not sure even they are accurate but they are certainly closer than Mr. Bills ever will be. The only thing you've probably not taken into account is the non flying members of which there are many. There are so many variables to be taken into account that it would take a good while of hard study and data collection before any figures are thrown about. Now if Mr. Bills came out with your comment people would be far harder pressed to dismiss it out of hand because it is definately a fairer and more realistic figure than the ludicrous one he is alleged to have commented on. (I say alleged because I really cannot believe that he would be that stupid not to do his maths first before making that remark?) Who knows though, maybe he did and it just shows he isn't the right man for the job because he is clearly not eductated in the right areas. The other problem which is our archilles heel at the moment is we blame it all on BOPs when in truth we all know that birds fly into wires, get flown out, hit by whatever else. Anyway, whatever is the cause it is certainly something that has to be addressed but in the right way and bloating figures in a national newspaper certainly isn't the way. :-/
Bluedoo Posted August 31, 2009 Report Posted August 31, 2009 I would be more inclined to agree with Mr Bills where he states "pigeons and songbirds". Bearing in mind the figures usually trotted out by the BTO,RSPB etc are at best usually at least 10 years old, and usually older than that. Also take in to account these figures are usually breeding pairs so you can at least double the amount of raptors nesting. Then add in the young and immature birds and suddenly 297,000 may not be that far fetched.
Guest Posted August 31, 2009 Report Posted August 31, 2009 Lets assume we base the figures on young birds per annum alone. 99,999 rings per letter of the alphabet = 2,599,974 young birds bred per annum. Average percentage of youngsters remaining in the loft per season (roughly 33%) therefore 1,715,982 youngster do not survive their first season. If my other calculations are a fair representation (see post above) of birds taken by BOP, (500,000 divided by 1,715,982) then this represents 29% of the total annual losses of young birds. If we then bring annual old bird losses into the equation, (therefore divide by 2) that's an average of 15% of Total annual losses that can be attributed to BOP. These are only guide figures, but if we can only base our sums on figures available to us from RSPB and Homing Unions, at has to be assumed these are a fair representation
Guest bigda Posted August 31, 2009 Report Posted August 31, 2009 these are the rspbs own figures hen harriers 1,600 white tailed eagle 850 red kite 2,400 perigrines 3,000 goshawk 1,000 merlin 2,660 sparowhawk 80,000 = kestrel 70,000 and just to add why did these birds not suffer dtt ----------------- --161,510----------------- x4 646,040 birds eaten per day you do the maths for 360days and that is not counting magpies hearring nests or crows the goshawk and perigrine alone will eat 16,000 pigeons a day and thats a fact, so just leave bill to do the talking as he is more on the ball
Guest bigda Posted August 31, 2009 Report Posted August 31, 2009 the lanarkshire has lost 4,000 birds and as you can see that would only be a snack
Guest Posted August 31, 2009 Report Posted August 31, 2009 To my knowledge these has been discussed for at least the past 2 years on this forum alone, and has anything been done :-/ Its all very well people saying let someone do the talking, sorry talking don't solve these problems. How many of us have sat down and watched the Natural History programs? and is it not always being quoted that Nature is dependant on a fine balance. ........... Change that balance and something suffers. One thing that is 100% true and that is, every time someone comes up with a plausible idea to help deal with the problem, there are always those who just sit there and spout the usual garbage "Oh that wont work" Have any of these suggestions been tried ....... in a nutshell NO, so how can anyone be so cock sure that it wont work. One thing is for certain, as long as pigeon fanciers are prepared to sit on their butts and watch it go on in front of their very eyes, there will not be any pigeon racing in 5 years time. Why wait and have another 2 years of pointless "Won't work" "Will work" debate, THE TIME TO ACT IS NOW, for the sake of the future of our great hobby
Mr Yorkie Posted August 31, 2009 Report Posted August 31, 2009 Dad has had pigeons since the 1960s and in that time has never had a bird killed by a cat but has had hundreds killed or injured by hawks. Makes you wonder where the RSPB get their stats from? As fanciers we can take action against cats; sonars, dusting powder, having a dog or a cat of your own etc. but we can't do anything which proves effective against hawks. Pot models of owls, mirrors, cds, balloons and so on, we've tried them all to no avail. It's heartbreaking knowing what the pigeon must go through when it is attacked by a hawk; perhaps some graphic details in the papers may get some further action.....
Daisymay Posted August 31, 2009 Report Posted August 31, 2009 Had a training toss last week, 3 of the birds returned eventually. HAWKED
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