bewted Posted April 14, 2006 Report Share Posted April 14, 2006 thanks jack,most informative for my grey matter to come to grips with,,,as for waiting till october for your books,thats no problem,i will PM you on that soon,thanks again,,,,ted Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted April 14, 2006 Report Share Posted April 14, 2006 personally....i dont really trust eyesign books e.t.c because it has been known on many occasions that people are drawing lines to try and give the bird a greater eye...all i like in a bird is if basically when it sits in your hand as you handle it to be balanced...i do not like the tail sticking up in a bird when i handle it...i also like the head to look 'healthy' and intelligent in this i mean nicely shaped....if in peak condition the feathers i like to be silky...i also love an aggressive bird by this i mean will never let you handle this...because in my personall experiance these perform better (i think it may have something to do with they want to beat there loftmates home so they race harder or something along these lines??) i also like to see the last three primaries all the same lenght (or as close to the same length). and last but not least a open cleft.. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bewted Posted April 14, 2006 Report Share Posted April 14, 2006 carter,,,,,eyesign books are for referance,not the be all,end all!!!!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Saffer Posted April 14, 2006 Report Share Posted April 14, 2006 Pearls of Wisdom, Cost to fancier: ZERO. Value: Prceless. The words of the Late Great Jim Biss, pg. 35 RP 14 april 2006. "Champions have brains, constitution, courage and honesty, none of these can be seen. Forget Eye theories, wing theories, and all other theories, they just that, rubbish theories. Good health, balance, beauty can be seen but remember, beauty is only skin deep". I dont think its ever been put so well, this by a man with a record on the road, and in the loft. Regards to all saffer Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted April 14, 2006 Report Share Posted April 14, 2006 Although I respect your opinion Saffer, there is a place here for everyones opinions . I may be the only person on this forum who has had the pleaseure of Jack visiting my loft. This man's gradings of our pigeons put us at least 5 years ahead of what we were dpoing ourselves. As they say, theories or not "What Can't speak Can't lie" Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted April 14, 2006 Report Share Posted April 14, 2006 carter,,,,,eyesign books are for referance,not the be all,end all!!!!! yea but if people are resorting to drawing lines to try and make the eye look greater it proves that even the people who go by eyesign dont believe it fully... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bewted Posted April 14, 2006 Report Share Posted April 14, 2006 carter,,,,if poeple are drawing lines to make the eye look bigger,they are not reading the actual eye for what it is,you cant make a silk purse out of a sows ear,thats with no disrespects to anyone on here,some people cannot get it if they tried,some can,,,,,,listen,learn,digest facts with an open mind and if anybody dont understand eyesign theory,ask and keep asking with an open mind,not prejudiced to start off with,,,,,,,,my respects to all who read this and no arguing with anyone on eyesign theory,,,,ted Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Silverwings Posted April 14, 2006 Report Share Posted April 14, 2006 Brains ,Honesty , constitution ,honesty , etc all these things i must admit do help our birds on route home ? but none of these qualities would be of much use without two very important assetts ...... 'EYES'...... and without these very important assetts how the hell would they get home ? first and foremost 'EYES' are a pigeons NAVIGATION system ,and any possible way that the quality of of this navigation system can be improved either by theories or breeding technology can only be good for the pigeon ! and make a reduction to the stray population ........ray, Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
snowy Posted April 14, 2006 Report Share Posted April 14, 2006 thanks jack much appreciated for your reply. & silverwings(ray) well spoken. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bewted Posted April 14, 2006 Report Share Posted April 14, 2006 well said silverwings,with that statement i presume you have an open mind on eyesign theory,yes? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Silverwings Posted April 14, 2006 Report Share Posted April 14, 2006 bewted , I must admit the the first thing i look at on a pigeon is its eye , although what i look at the eye for may be a bit unconventional for instance ,the position of the eye in the pigeons head ? i look for lots of activity and observation from the bird itself ? looking from the back of the eye i look for tiny particles on the suface of the iris , slightly elevated ? look like some sort of light fiters to me ? i think the act as a sheild from the suns rays , but the best ones have them !, i also like to see a slight elevation of the muscle that dilates and contracts the pupil ,i dont like to see too much in the eye or too little the eye has to be balanced and defined ,and looking from the front i have to see a full pupil 180 degree vision i call it ? .........then i look at the rest of the bird with just as much enthusiasm pigeons to me a like jigsaws , get all the pieces to fit and you get the full picture .......ray Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bewted Posted April 14, 2006 Report Share Posted April 14, 2006 cant argue on that ray,you know what you want and get it?????? ted Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Saffer Posted April 14, 2006 Report Share Posted April 14, 2006 Silverwings. A little experiment by a local fancier Dr Blackburn: They covered the pigeons eyes with a opaque, or frosted plastic. Zero sight, but the plastic allowed light through, the pigeons were released 360 Km from the loft. Of 8 pigeons, 5 landed on the board 1 meter by 90 cm. The other 3 fell 1 meter from this landing board on the grass. This from 360 Km and the pigeons were followed by light aircraft. So with no sight, or eye power, only light. The same 8 with their ears covered, failed to navigate, and 2 made it back to the loft. So this complex navigation system, has far more to do with eyes... Ever wondered how a totally blind pigeon, can navigate, train and trap, yet battles to eat from a hopper.. Seen this on 2 occasions, magic and mystical it remains. Regards Saffer Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jack Barkel Posted April 15, 2006 Report Share Posted April 15, 2006 Hello All, I have read the replies with great interest, and feel I must reply in defence of my two books. In these books will be found over two hundred photographs of eyes taken by myself. Not one, and I state categorically not one has lines of any kind drawn on them, I can assure all that those photographs like myself are the genuine article, no fake here either, although the printer may not have got the depth of colour exact in transferring some photo's from CD to the printed page. Remember the printer may never have seen a pigeons eye, and can be excused from perceiving one to be as much the same as any other. It bothers me not what other photographers or pigeon evaluators think of true or unfair criticism, but my reputation will remain untarnished if I am in a position to defend it. I refuse to be lumped together with the fakes and cheats, not every one in this world can be slotted into such a category, although I do not deny that such practices do occur. Part of my profession is pigeon and eye photography, and I refuse to enhance any photograph other than to take out flash marks etc for any customer or myself. I have thousands of photographs of pigeons and their eyes taken for customers that wish to have photo's of their favourites recorded. Never will I put in what is not genuinely perceived by the owner and myself. I am sorry that some of us seem to have lived our lives exposed to fakes and impostors, but wish to state that all work done by myself either as a pigeon evaluator or photographer, will stand up to the closest scrutiny. No offence taken, just clarifying my position in defence of such loose statements. I would also like to mention that the late great Jim Biss was visited by Bill Carney some years ago, Jim had just purchased a Cock for 15000 pounds. Bill said it was a beautiful racing cock but would never produce anything near like itself. Jim swore him out of the place and that was the end of what could have been a good friendship. Needless to say from that day onwards Jim condemned eye sign but never admitted that Bill Carney's forecast was a true one, the pigeon never did produce anything of merit. Regards to All, Jack Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Silverwings Posted April 15, 2006 Report Share Posted April 15, 2006 saffer ,cracking reply and thourght provoking ? read of these types of experiments taking place during the war as a selection method for the service pigeons ? as this thread is given over eyesign and its qualities and theories i look forward to reading posts from men the calibre of Jack Barkell on this subject . i never can get enough input .? and never will , your point leans more towards homing instinct another fascinating subject , as regards to navigation by light (sunlight) i feel this also assists , and have seen pigeons liberated under cloud fly round the liberation site for an hour ? as soon as the sun broke through and revealed its position ,away they went , as to the sound theory ??????? a few years ago i did an experiment with radio waves i played a specific sound wave from a C.B radio through to speakers in the loft always to the youngsters at feed times ,the results were fascinating ,will do this one on thread relative to it if you wish ....ray Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rentenier Posted April 15, 2006 Report Share Posted April 15, 2006 I know very little about eyesign. I have read a lot on eyesign from Jack's comments on other sites and have tried a couple of times to see what comes from the pairings. What I do believe in is that the eye will tell you if the bird is healty and a good healty bird will perform. : Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bewted Posted April 15, 2006 Report Share Posted April 15, 2006 jack,as a matter of interest,what or which is the best way to take a photo of a pigeons eye? ted Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jack Barkel Posted April 15, 2006 Report Share Posted April 15, 2006 Hello Ted, In my new book Chapter 9 is titled "How to photograph the eye" If you write to me privately I will e-mail you a preview of Chapter nine including photographs explaining how I do it. Regards Jack Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bewted Posted April 15, 2006 Report Share Posted April 15, 2006 jack,have sent you a pm on here,,,,thanks Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted April 15, 2006 Report Share Posted April 15, 2006 Ted I have asked Jack in a PM to givie his assesment of Clocky lol Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted April 15, 2006 Report Share Posted April 15, 2006 Rentenier, We paired our birds exactly as Jack suggested with great results, in fact the first year one of his pairings produced a hen AU 03 Red Rose 1444 who won the World Trade Centre Memorial Race and a prize purse of $53,000. and more importantly was the only day bird out of 1340 birds from 346 miles. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bewted Posted April 15, 2006 Report Share Posted April 15, 2006 jack,i have heard of the expression in past times of GRAVEL EYE,can you explain this? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jack Barkel Posted April 15, 2006 Report Share Posted April 15, 2006 Hello Hyacinth, Thanks for your recognition of the bird bred from my selection and suggested pairing. However I am sorry to say that Clocky does not appear as if he will make it at all. I think all his weight is in his head and will dip into the ground if faced with a head wind. I also do not think there is a race ring either electronic or otherwise that will not get lost in the race basket. He certainly seems to have a lot of things going against him, and the green eye I suspect is only a reflection of his feathers. Any youngsters from him may be trained to ask the way home as his eye shows no homing ability. Sorry Hyacinth, I hope you were not contemplating putting him to stock. Best Regards, Jack Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bewted Posted April 15, 2006 Report Share Posted April 15, 2006 good assesment of clockie,i like it,,,,,,jack sure knows his birds hahaha Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jack Barkel Posted April 15, 2006 Report Share Posted April 15, 2006 Hello Ted, Yes in the pearl eye we have many colour enhancements, one of these appears very grey with a dull pinkish cast, this is known as the gravel eye. Once I get used how to post a picture on here I will be able to submit an example. Suffice it to say it is a pearl eye and is recessive. May be some one will send me a PM on here how to post a picture attachment. It is obvious I am going to have to do this in the near future. Regards Jack Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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