just ask me Posted September 24, 2008 Report Share Posted September 24, 2008 O.K. Read my post and that will answer your first question, Yeh. I am worried about my fellow men ( you ). Life EXPECTANCY is going up, why? Sanitation, Hygene, Diet bla bla bla. Are you doing this to enhance your pigeons life expectancy? I totaly agree with your point re medication (£££££££'s)? How can you claim people who would have "died 50 years ago" etc. etc. would be o.k. now???? You've missed the point completely. To save a life is one thing. To win a race is another. To blindly use medication is another, and to me totaly insane and irresponsible. Answer me this, Why? are you routinely medicating your birds. Clean loft, best of feed, crystal clear water, fresh air, sunlight, ESSENTIAL vitamins and minerals, excersize and good management will win the day. If it doesn't then we should all get an x-box and play virtual pigeon racing. I do not wish to offend, just hopefully open some eyes. After all, we all share one common passion, a wee bird that will give its all for the man in charge.(smarty2) one problem when race day comes all that goes out the window when your birds go into a hamper with birds that have a sickness Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Freebird Posted September 24, 2008 Report Share Posted September 24, 2008 one problem when race day comes all that goes out the window when your birds go into a hamper with birds that have a sickness Yep, spot on. That's the problem in all walks of life. Who's to blame? who or what is going to suffer? I don't race so maybe a bit out of order here but only viewing my opinion as an outsider and not wanting to offend anyone. I know it is hard and we all get sucked in and paranoid. It's not easy for sure. Just trying to give a different perspective. Really commend the poster for his integrity as well. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
just ask me Posted September 24, 2008 Report Share Posted September 24, 2008 Yep, spot on. That's the problem in all walks of life. Who's to blame? who or what is going to suffer? I don't race so maybe a bit out of order here but only viewing my opinion as an outsider and not wanting to offend anyone. I know it is hard and we all get sucked in and paranoid. It's not easy for sure. Just trying to give a different perspective. Really commend the poster for his integrity as well. not out of order at all its a open forum and we all have our opinions but at marking when u see birds with greasy wattles bad droppings u maybe have been in a competitors loft the week before and u can see water not changed general upkeep of pigeons is not great and then these pigeons are drinking from the same water as yours and the new transporters are a joke as they work on a overflow system so it only takes a few pigeons on a transporter to infect a whole transporter as the water doesn't go into the drinkers individually so it spreads all over the transporter these are just a few reasons why a routine on medication should be taken though the racing season and left alone all winter this is just my opinion of course Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Freebird Posted September 24, 2008 Report Share Posted September 24, 2008 not out of order at all its a open forum and we all have our opinions but at marking when u see birds with greasy wattles bad droppings u maybe have been in a competitors loft the week before and u can see water not changed general upkeep of pigeons is not great and then these pigeons are drinking from the same water as yours and the new transporters are a joke as they work on a overflow system so it only takes a few pigeons on a transporter to infect a whole transporter as the water doesn't go into the drinkers individually so it spreads all over the transporter these are just a few reasons why a routine on medication should be taken though the racing season and left alone all winter this is just my opinion of course Is it really that bad? Is there not anyone delegated to Scroutenise ( spelling may be wrong ) as in car racing etc. This would surely make sence as we know not all are dedicated to hygene etc. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
frank-123 Posted September 25, 2008 Report Share Posted September 25, 2008 FREEBIRD its all about winning i thought it was the idea of racing pigeons i am pretty new to pigeon's tell me what i should do for canker respiratory worms salmonella paratyphoid e coli i was told your birds must be fit and healthy give me a programme to use next year Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
frank-123 Posted September 25, 2008 Report Share Posted September 25, 2008 A microsope will pick up things, you need to be quite skilled though because we're not just talking about worm or cocci eggs today. Most diseases tend to take a few days to manifest, then you have trouble and you may have to stop the birds for a few races. I would prefer to have a health program in place. But each to their own, many roads lead to Rome! I think you have to keep your birds healthy because if they're not healthy you can't keep them fit. The other interesting thing on this thread is the absence of comments from the many distance fanatics on this site. Is that because they don't want fanciers to know this is what they do? they don't tell you when the birds are sick and the wont give you information on how they keep there birds healthy so the new fanciers are putting birds with disease in beside there birds every week i know because i probably put sick bird's in the basket a few years back then i was 30 mins behind the winner from a 90 mile race all you here is your birds must be sick :-/ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Paulo Posted September 25, 2008 Report Share Posted September 25, 2008 The trick is not to use medication out of season. Using medication during racing season is a neccessary evil. Thing is with parathyoid vaccination I can't seem to find anywhere to buy it from. Its not licensed for use in this country is it? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest pigeon82 Posted September 25, 2008 Report Share Posted September 25, 2008 the thing is i would say almost every human is ill once a year so how do you know your bird is not ill if its not showing signs a human can be ill not show anything so why cant our feathered freinds be the same to keep them in tip top condition ill be following the advice my father was given on the top post and will continue to use it Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest slugmonkey Posted September 25, 2008 Report Share Posted September 25, 2008 Pigeon 82 Quit worrying about defending yourself almost every pigeon medicine shop has some version of this system and they DO work this is not new and has been around in some version for a while, the ones that say that it dosent work obviously havent used it because you can really up your performance in a short while with this stuff can you win ??? I dont know you still have to use good methods and have goodbirds Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted September 25, 2008 Report Share Posted September 25, 2008 O.K. Read my post and that will answer your first question, Yeh. I am worried about my fellow men ( you ). Life EXPECTANCY is going up, why? Sanitation, Hygene, Diet bla bla bla. Are you doing this to enhance your pigeons life expectancy? I totaly agree with your point re medication (£££££££'s)? How can you claim people who would have "died 50 years ago" etc. etc. would be o.k. now???? You've missed the point completely. To save a life is one thing. To win a race is another. To blindly use medication is another, and to me totaly insane and irresponsible. Answer me this, Why? are you routinely medicating your birds. Clean loft, best of feed, crystal clear water, fresh air, sunlight, ESSENTIAL vitamins and minerals, excersize and good management will win the day. If it doesn't then we should all get an x-box and play virtual pigeon racing. I do not wish to offend, just hopefully open some eyes. After all, we all share one common passion, a wee bird that will give its all for the man in charge.(smarty2) If you think birds aren't dropping dead in lofts then you I'm afraid are missing the point. Pigeon fanciers reflect society. You will ave those that are responsible and those that aren't. If everyone who kept clean lofts, best feed, crystal clear water all went in the same basket, then you could prove your point. However if they did I suspect you would have an even worse situation. Always remember seeing the video on Peter Van Eijerden (sorry can't remember the spelling). He made a decision not to treat his birds for anything and that's a few decades back when we didn't have new bugs mutating constantly. He lost a fair percentage of birds 60/80% (?) in the end he had a few birds with natural immunity. Good for him, not much good for all the birds being put in the same basket as his disease ridden ones though. Peter's plan was intentional. What about those fanciers who are in that position unintentionally?? Most of the best fanciers I know treat their birds whilst racing. And one other point clean spotless lofts ain't the answer I had far more trouble when my loft was spotless than I do now with easi bed in the loft. Back in the seventies in my club probably 40% of fanciers were on deep litter, rarely changed their water just topped up, they built up natural immunity. I'm afraid cosmetic cleanliness is not the answer. This year whilst racing my old birds I treated as follows, after two seperate races had (different)canker treatment for 3 days, another race lincospectin for 3 days and another anti fungal for 3 days, can't remember the name but it's a bog standrd one. The other one I wished I'd used was cocci treatment. In days gone by it was said you needed to give vitamins after the treatment. I'm not saying that's not the case but I would ensure they had pro biotic and cider vingegar to balance the good bacteria in the gut, my own personal preference is using cod liver oil to coat the food wth the pro biotic but that's beacuse that was used years ago, be careful with it though because it can go rancid very quickly. Freebird I respect your opinion but until I started using a health program I struggled, that and with cracking the eye turned things around for me. I would say the one essential that should be done in every loft is annual vaccination for paratyphus, it is the greatest threat to our birds. In my opinion there's been some excellent information / knowledge passed on this thread. Bart use it it will improve your performances. There will many who will read and disregard and say you can only damage the birds I see it as supporting the birds not damaging them, each to their own. Another good thread! 8) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest slugmonkey Posted September 25, 2008 Report Share Posted September 25, 2008 I think you can balance the two in fact I think you have to anymore Look back 20 years ago no one even knew what a probiotic was now they are in everything ( feed, supplements, race preperations, vitamin mixes ) I think you can build the birds up almost as fast as you tear them down with all the products we have today If you are locking your birds down and giving crap feed ( I wont define that here ) all winter and then jacking them up in race time on antibios and other meds then yes you WILL have problems but on the other hand if you are giving probiotics and good feed with natural products and good grit all year with plenty of loft exercise you are not going to see the "DAMAGE" that is spoken of so often I think most of the fanciers that are seeing the problems associated with over medicating are the same ones who had problems before the antibiotic boom Medication is no substitute for good birds and sound handling techniques take a guy that is flying good and give him medication that is properly used and he is nearly unbeatable give me another who breeds by pedigree and not performance, one who culls by handle and not the basket and let him have a go at the drugs all he will do is have another excuse why he cant win Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mark Posted September 25, 2008 Report Share Posted September 25, 2008 learn how to use it is the hard bit ??) if you had a system that that gave you a few yards on race day you wouldnt tell a soul. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tom corrie Posted September 25, 2008 Report Share Posted September 25, 2008 i worry about the use of antibiotics long term but looking at the other side of the coin how long does a bird that is racing every week or every other week last it will be a very lucky pigeon if it makes it to three years old Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted September 25, 2008 Report Share Posted September 25, 2008 i worry about the use of antibiotics long term but looking at the other side of the coin how long does a bird that is racing every week or every other week last it will be a very lucky pigeon if it makes it to three years old Tom, spot on, I kept my birds in from September til Aprl this past year because of Percy and the Sparrowhawk, in the winter months previously when let out I was losing 1 or 2 a day. Life expectancy is poor regardless when you live in a hawk infested area! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted September 25, 2008 Report Share Posted September 25, 2008 if you had a system that that gave you a few yards on race day you wouldnt tell a soul. You think so Mark? I fly in partnership, we fly to two lofts we share our stock birds etc., I'm only really interested in the Channel, my partner wants to win every race, you can see my performances on the long distanc thread. At my partner's loft we won old bird racing 6 x1st and 1st Section NFC by nearly 100 yds per minute he used a health program more or less as above. So now tell us Mark what were you're performances you can show you are a good guy at heart and tell us your system. Like you even when you're actually told the truth very few will believe it, but if it came from the pen of the PR men that have sprung up in the sport then it will be spot on!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
frank-123 Posted September 25, 2008 Report Share Posted September 25, 2008 if you had a system that that gave you a few yards on race day you wouldnt tell a soul. i need more than a few yards ;D Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ChrisMaidment08 Posted September 25, 2008 Report Share Posted September 25, 2008 aye great advice pity some other's on here don't offer the same anybody use amoxiciilan? broad spectrum antibiotic will cure most things but and the but do not give 3 days before racing as it will burn them out enhance boast system but good at clearing up infections 10 ml lite i was told by vet Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ChrisMaidment08 Posted September 25, 2008 Report Share Posted September 25, 2008 also use it for my stomach divers ticaliteus Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OLDYELLOW Posted September 25, 2008 Report Share Posted September 25, 2008 aye great advice pity some other's on here don't offer the same anybody use amoxiciilan? most bacteria / infections are spectrum specific and you need the right treatment to treat it or the treatment wont work , i have used amoxycillin and ended up at vets with a bird thats white blood cells were sky high , think his vet wants shooting Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ChrisMaidment08 Posted September 25, 2008 Report Share Posted September 25, 2008 well it works well on my guts Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
joe61 Posted September 25, 2008 Report Share Posted September 25, 2008 bart amoxicillin is an antibiotic used for killing bacteria that can cause infections its part of the penicilln group oh happy days Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest pigeon82 Posted September 25, 2008 Report Share Posted September 25, 2008 i havent got any birds yet as i have just split with my partnership with my father as i have moved to n/ireland with my wife and kids and i am just in the process of building my loft ive nearly finished but i will be getting all my birds for the forthcoming young bird system and start fresh i have a few freinds bacck in england that are gonna breed me some youngstres and i will be using the above system my dad won the odd few races but once he started this system the following 3 races he won easy he was timing his birds in b4 anyone got one back in his club and he is the furthest flier in the club by 7 miles i will defo use it and i would rather share advicce cuz it makes the competition all the better Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Freebird Posted September 25, 2008 Report Share Posted September 25, 2008 FREEBIRD its all about winning i thought it was the idea of racing pigeons i am pretty new to pigeon's tell me what i should do for canker respiratory worms salmonella paratyphoid e coli i was told your birds must be fit and healthy give me a programme to use next year Of course you must treat for these conditions when they flare up in the birds. Surely something can be done regarding basketing, transportation etc. where your birds are coming into contact with infected birds then? I don't have any answers I'm afraid and I appreciate your dilemma. It seems this routine of preventative medication is the norm and probably has been for some time and this is probably just the tip of the iceberg. Suppose it's like athletes/body builders taking performance enhancing drugs, does this go on in the racing game as well? I'm not saying you are wrong in having your program and yes there would be no point racing the birds if you did not care about winning and achieving the best results on the day. I'm just concerned that some people will be prepared to use any means to achieve their goal. I believe you do not get anything for nothing so there must be a payback time for blindly using antibiotics etc. Personally I steer clear of any medication (talking about myself not birds) as I feel doctors are too quick to dish them out. Mind you, I'm not competing in any race(evil) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest chrisss Posted September 25, 2008 Report Share Posted September 25, 2008 bart amoxicillin is an antibiotic used for killing bacteria that can cause infections its part of the penicilln group oh happy days normally given if you are allergic to penicilln Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest surfer Posted September 25, 2008 Report Share Posted September 25, 2008 I do'nt believe you need to be giving your birds preventative treatment through out the year to compete against other members,be it club racing or national racing. My birds get a canker treatment when on the first round of eggs, then nothing else other than what I am forced to give them every year, and I would not be giving them that if I had a choice. As for performance I only send to the NFC races and I was 15th and 16th open from Fougeres, and I then sent 3 to NFC Tarbes and timed 2 the first being 262nd open. If I saw something was wrong with my birds I would take them to the vet and hopefully be prescribed the appropriate medication. This is only my opinion Surfer. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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