Is it just me.....?

[Guest Doostalker]

Since I started in the birds way back when, I have always heard the saying "That one is a direct son (daughter) of my Channel winner." I never really understood what it meant, but being a sprog I never questioned any of my elders and betters what it meant.

 

I was out the birds from my twenties till 10 years ago, and I still hear people saying this. In fact nearly every advert for an auction uses the term frequently. I have asked many people what it means but no one can give me an exact definition. especially when I ask them what the opposite would mean  ie "an indirect son/daughter." I don't think such a creature exists.  ??)

 

So maybe it is just me, but does anyone know what this means exactly or is it, as I suspect just a peculiar term particular to the pigeon fancy. Maybe there is some easily defined explanation going back into the mists of time, so hopefully Jimmy White might have the answer :D

[celtic]

i would have thought it was quite self explainetly (wrong spelling i know) the daughter was sired by the man's channel winner,so she's not a granddaughter ,or any further removed for that matter, one of her parents   was a channel winner

[Guest Doostalker]

Sorry celtic, but that does not compute. If it was self explanatory I might have had an idea of what it means. But I don't, so either I am really thick (no comments please   :) or it is an anachronism that has just become part of the terminology we use in the fancy.

 

If it is a son or daughter, then call it a son or daughter. If it's a G/son or G/daughter, then call it that too.  :

 

Direct son is confusing. Sometimes people say that their bird is a direct line out of such and such. That I can understand as it means it is a direct descendant of whatever bird is mentioned.

 

If you use the term Direct son, then logically there has to be an opposite ie indirect son. When you look at it like that, it makes little logical sense. Just my view, but would honestly appreciate someone explaining it to me.  :-/

[PIGEON_MAN]

DOOSTALKER ARE YOU SURE YOU HAVN,T BEEN HITTING THE WHISKY BOTTLE I  WOULD THINK EXACTLY THE SAME AS CELTICS EXPLANATION.

[Guest Doostalker]

Nope.........no whisky and no other befuddling material has been took!!!! Honest!!!

 

Seeing as both you and celtic both think that it simply means son of or daughter of, just convinces me that it is a term which we have become used to using and we don't really know why. :-/

 

If a bird is the son of something, then why call it "direct son " ?????  To me it adds nothing to the description, and is confusing to anyone coming into the sport. I have been in the canary showing world and around the dog breeding fraternity too, and pigeon racing is the only place I have found this term being used.

 

Just to satisfy my obtuse character, try applying it to people........doesn't stack up does it?  :-/ :-/

[Guest]

Can't agree with the others Doostalker. I think you are quite right, it is just a meaningless term, straight out of 'ye olde sales pitche'.  

 

I think if you searched around you'd find a few more like 'bred in the purple', 'full of winning genes' etc.

 

 

[Guest Doostalker]

Thank God Bruno....thought I was out on my own there

[PIGEON_MAN]

WONDER HOW THE SPEAKER OF WISE WORDS (JIMMY WHITE} SEE,S THIS ONE HOW ABOUT IT JIM PUT THE LESS KNOWLEDGEABLE AMONGST US RIGHT.

[jimmy white]

hi doostalker , trust me to get that one fired at me ;D ;D ;D  a direct son off a channel winner, would mean a son, bred off a winning pigeon, that had won flying the channel,,, direct,,, meaning, not a grandson or a great grandson, but a son,

  i.e  simpler to say,,,, this pigeon is a son off the first open rennes, winner.

         or this pigeon is a daughter, off the first open nantes winner.  etc..etc

                                 ;D ;D ;D

 

in a way it is a kind of sales gimmic ,,,, DIRECT son  , sells   better than a son, but their just the same thing     [or daughter off course]

 

   if youve either or ither, ill have a pair   ;)

[Guest Doostalker]

Jimmy, thanks for confirming what I thought. It is used as a gimmick to sell the birds. Thanks for that.

[celtic]

:oI,m not sure that Jimmy said that it was a gimmick! he repeated what i said that it was,nt a grandson or double grandson of a channel winner. It's like looking a a sales catologue for greyhounds for instance and seeing an advert for a pup bred a certain way and being a half sister or brother to a champion .....how would you interpret that then? without wanting to come across the wrong way i,m off the same opinion as pigeon-man ....it's not exactly rocket science is it, Doostalker if you ever want to buy any greyhounds i can get you plenty of direct sons or daughters of any of the champions at stud at the moment...for a price of course.

[celtic]

;)Over to you oh wise one

[snowy]

i suppose its like selling a car " THIS CAR HAS 1 PREVIOUS OWNER" not mentioning the other 12 before that 1" lol,

[Guest]

Well, Celtic, may I puts it another way?  

 

Can I have an indirect double outbread, half-sister to the brother of that hen thats a full sister to the quarter brother of the nest mate to your bird that just missed the 1920 Rennes result?  

 

(and I'm prepared to pay no more than one and a tanner for it )  

[celtic]

You'd be paying over the odds and i would,nt take your money off you.

[celtic]

Ha Ha and a Ho

[Guest Doostalker]

Celtic, can I make a couple of wee points on your answer to my last posting.

 

I suppose you are right in what you say about Jimmy's response. He didn't say "it is a gimmick" what he did say was "in a way it is a kind of sales gimmick". Somehow I think I am correct though in construing his answer in the way I did.

 

Secondly, I note what you say about greyhounds, but it doesn't affect my viewpoint. Why? Well if you have a half brother/sister then you describe it as that, greyhound bird or goldfish!   It means what it says, the animal in question shares a parent with another one making it a half brother/sister to it. That is simple enough.

 

But what does direct son/dtr mean?? To make my point, think about your best bird in the loft, you know the one you promised me some youngsters off!!  

 

What I have decided to have is a direct son, and an indirect son! I don't suppose you would have any difficulty giving me the direct son......cos it is simply a son off it.....just as Jimmy, Bruno and I have been saying.

 

Now then, what about the indirect son? Logically if you have one you must have the other!! Which bird are you going to find in your loft which meets that description? Indirect?? You see it is as Jimmy said, a phrase used in the sale of pigeons which really means nothing, but is used in the attempt of talking up the sale. It would be a lot more simple and accurate to drop the "direct."  

 

Fun this isn't it Darryn? You got your jabs to get you to Dunoon yet?    By the way, not forgot about the birds for you......one will be a direct son and the other wil be an indirect......... :D

[celtic]

Terry

your indirect son would be sired by a son off my channel winner, but seeing as i,ve yet to send a bird over the channel let alone one good enough to win over the water you may have to wait a while!!, this is as you say fun, or forum fun as the great wise one would say 8)

[Guest]

Now, Celtic and Doostalker, to carry this scientific discourse to the its next logical stage:

 

You are both members of the same forum; does that mean that the birds you exchange will be line bred or inbred?  :-/

 

 

[jimmy white]

i reared up 5 of a family       my wife was married before   and had these children to her previous husband, therefor they are my adopted step children my indirect sons and daughters      i have a daughter  who i sired [i hope]    she is my direct daughter, ,    just to confuse things further  ;D ;D ;D

 

[jimmy white]

keep it light lads  [ brunos in his element now ;D ;D ;D ]

  were all jock tamsons bairns   ;)

[Guest]

Reading your post on your family, Jimmy, I reckon maybe the Chinese have the right idea.  

 

Howzabout: A number 5 son of the Rennes cock?  8)

[Guest Doostalker]

Now, Celtic and Doostalker, to carry this scientific discourse to the its next logical stage:

 

You are both members of the same forum; does that mean that the birds you exchange will be line bred or inbred?  :-/

 

 

Bruno they will probably be e bred!!!!!

 

 

[Guest Doostalker]

keep it light lads  [ brunos in his element now ;D ;D ;D ]

  were all jock tamsons bairns   ;)

 

Jimmy light and airy as always. Celtic and I are enjoying this. it is what the forum is for. Airing your views and agreeing or agreeing to disagree.

 

By the way, celtic told me he told his wife he was taking her overseas.....he didn't tell he it was a day oot in Dunoon!! Poor lassie thinks she is going to a Costa!

[celtic]

Just off the phone to you terry and i said to my wife "that's everything arranged for going over the water the first week in December" she still does,nt know it,s dunoon we're headed for 8)