Canker – Trichomoniasis

[jimmy white]

preston power blast gave the right dosage for flagyl in tablet form, if you get the liquid form its 5 to 10 ml to i litre of water for 5 to 10 days, whether it be tablet or liquid its great for all types of canker, and cheap if you get it in spain , over the counter, less than 3 pounds a bottle, any one on holiday will get it easy

[speedbird]

i use gambacoccid r.o used for both canker & cocci birds on it for 6days

[Guest]

I've often wondered about so called 'preventative' treatment. In my opinion it's one of the biggest differences between general pigeon management in the 60's and now.

 

In my opinion, you're basically doing medicinally what the bird's immune system should be doing naturally in the first place. If the bird can't naturally keep itself free from canker, cocci and worms - and the only reason why it can't must be down to poor constitution - then preventative probably does more harm than good, both to perfectly healthy birds' immune systems, and propping up the not so healthy that perhaps shouldn't be there in the first place.

 

 

[jimmy white]

you have a good point there   bruno

[Guest Silverwings]

as jimmy says good point  bruno seems stress also causes canker to multiply ? pigeons stress during transportation , a lot of fanciers give a low dose preventative during every other week of the racing season as well as a sunday dip in diluted potasium permanganate .the breeding season is different ? as 75 % of all pigeons carry canker of some form  , most manage to develop an imunity  that restricts its progress ? that imunity is passed down during feeding ,by the adult birds to their young, continued low doses being fed into the youngsters helps them to gradualy develop their own imunity ! so there may when  times not to treat ?  iorn sulphate and copper sulphate are essential in the formation of their  red blood cells , i  have an old iorn tonic recipe with two of these items in it  if i can find it ...... any one else have a copy of this ?

[snowy]

can someone please tell me if i should treat for canker etc? i have not as yet gave anything at all medicine wise ecept garlic 4-5 times a week, & johnsons pigeon tonic once every 2 weeks, & a good belgium grit, with oyster shell & a sprinkling of charcoal on top.?

any advice

[Guest]

Personally, we never routinely medicate, ruins the birds natural immune system

[snowy]

cheers hyacinth, will leave alone unless i spot somthing.

[Guest]

Sound Idea Martin

 

[Silverdale Lofts]

Snowy all the top lofts will be treating for canker before pairing or when the birds have laid the second egg i use flagyl tablets 1/4 tablet per bird.Reading some of the posts on here spartrix is just the same as flagyl but you pay £15 from harkers if you go to vets and ask for metronidazol tablets they work out £3 a packet for 21 when you give them a 1/4 tablet each 84 doses for £3 saving £12 from harkers spartrix.The rubbing of a red match to get rid of canker just get rids of the canker on the surface not deep in the crop snowy this day and age only healthy birds win races.

[Guest shadow]

I have not routinely treated for any thing for the last 5 years and my birds are still winning and never seem to ail anything including young bird sickness.  

[Silverdale Lofts]

shadow how many firsts are you getting a year and how many fed positions?

[Guest]

I don't medicate and I win absolutely nowt, so couldn't in all honesty reply to Snowy's original post, one way or the other.  

 

However, here's someone who does win, and his birds win the world over, Bernard Deweerdt: here's what he says on p27 in this weeks BHW (30/12):

 

"Bernard Deweerdt says one of the main reasons for their strength is the fact that they are not routinely given any medication. In a loft where inbreeding & linebreeding is practiced, he feels it important to only breed from the healthiest of birds.

 

As young birds they are not given any supplementary medicines. If a young bird has a dirty wattle, or it is sat in a corner with its feathers ruffled and looking very sad, it is left to get better by itself. It is not seperated from the others. If it is not capable of getting over minor ailments on its own then fate takes its course. You must question why one bird gets ill and others do not. The ones that do not become ill have a greater resistance to pigeon diseases and these are the ones that form the Deweerdt lofts. "

 

After that, and with just two birds with health problems in 2005, I for one am confident enough not to change from relying upon natural resistance inside the bird, and good loft hygeine outside it.

[snowy]

good points, but i think its best to leave well alone unless i spot somthing, as im sure i will at the first signs, spend as much time as i can handling the birds & all are calm in the hand & 99% of them eat from my hand, & all seem healthy,

thanks anyway for the advice.

[Silverdale Lofts]

Bruno thanks for the replie maybe we should have a poll to see who treats for worms cocci etc. Bruno one question i would like to ask do your birds have worms canker cocci etc ?

[Silverdale Lofts]

Bruno thanks for the replie maybe we should have a poll to see who treats for worms cocci etc. Bruno one question i would like to ask do your birds have worms canker cocci etc ?

[toon_barmy]

Hi, I treat for canker, cocci, and worms. I dont think you can possibly get to the top in this sport if you dont treat regular during the season. To fly consistantly the birds must be 100% fit and healthy, And I cant see how untreated birds can be healthy with the amount of stress the birds endure from racing and mixing with god knows how many other birds on the transporters.

Health, fitness, motivation and a bit of luck.

[Guest speckled]

Basiacally i agree with Hyacinth,but i do canker after the birds have finished breeding. all the birds will get treated once, with B.S. form Belgica De Weerd. Speckled.

[Guest]

Bruno one question i would like to ask do your birds have worms canker cocci etc ?

 

I have no reason to suspect that my birds suffer from any illness. I check my birds daily for signs of anything untoward. I also use garlic twice a week which in addition to the bird's immune system will help shift everything that shouldn't be there. I'm 14 months into a health regime that guarantees my loft hygeine will interrupt any living organism's lifecycle ... if its living and falls on my floor, boxes, perches, or even on the mesh of my section dividers and ceilings, then it is dead. Dead eggs and oocysts don't hatch. Living Organisms don't live forever, and when they do die, I've made doubly sure they've left no progeny to continue any infestation... .

 

 

[Guest]

Came across this on medpet website. In my opinion its another good example of what happens when you routinely medicate... the organism becomes resistant, and you've created a Superbug which neither Medicine nor the bird's immune system can shift.

 

Crop Canker – the danger of resistant strains

 

Dr OJ Botha (BVSc)

 

"Introduction:

 

Crop Canker (Tricomoniasis) has become the leading cause of poor performance in racing pigeons. The incidence of the disease is steadily rising. More and more pigeon fanciers are becoming aware of the problem because they are regularly having their pigeons tested at the vet. It is becoming clear to vets and pigeon fanciers that some pigeons carry resistant strains of Crop-Canker that is not being controlled by any of the conventional Crop Canker medications.

 

Research proved conclusively that the problem of resistance to currently available medication was a world wide problem. Because Crop Canker is a true sub clinical disease that will often have no specific clinical signs and because racing pigeons are constantly in contact with other pigeons it is impossible to eradicate Trichomonas. To perform well in pigeon racing the fancier is forced to medicate regularly against Trichomonas in order to reduce the incidence in his lofts. The use of single day medication against Trichomonas is popular as it saves time and is often more affordable to the fancier. Although some single day medications are still very effective the use of these products do play a significant role in the development of resistant Trichomonas.

 

Currently all the Crop Canker medications are derived from the same group of medicines - this enhances the potential for cross-resistance between medications. This means that if a certain Trichomonas organism is resistant to one Crop Canker product the chances that it will be partially or totally resistant against the other product are very high.

 

Super resistant Trichomonas strains:

 

Since late 1990 super resistant strains of Trichomonas started appearing. These are the strains of Trichomonas found in some lofts that cannot be effectively be controlled by any product on the market today. Pigeons would be treated against Crop Canker with a previously effective product. After treatment the microscopic analysis would confirm that there was a marginal decrease in the Trichomonas count but within 7 –10 days the count would rise again dramatically.

 

During 2002 Medpet became aware that these super resistant Trichomonas were increasing worldwide. Dr Botha and his team focused all there research on this extremely concerning problem. More than 15 different drugs and different drug dosages were used to try and eliminate these super resistant Trichomonas organisms. All of these failed. Invariably the organisms would appear again after 7 –10 days. "

 

 

Incidently, this is part of an advert for a new Canker treatment. Never learn, do they?

 

 

 

 

[jimmy white]

WHY NOT HAVE THEIR DROPPINGS TESTED, ITS A LOT CHEAPER, THEN IF ANYTHING NEEDS TO BE DONE,, IT CAN BE DONE

[Guest]

Have had a wee look at what's out there on trichomonias the organism, and canker the disease. Quite interesting. Not all strains are 'infective' and cause disease, and the presence of non-pathogenic type can promote an immune response resulting in the bird becoming immune to the more harmful ones.

 

But I think this one from our own Tom Pennycott is a classic. It relates to game birds in Scotland and their version of the disease and what happened after their preventative stuff was withdrawn from the market:-

 

"Hexamitiasis and trichomoniasis were for a number of years partially controlled by the administration of dimetridazole in the feed during the rearing period and for the first few weeks after release.

 

Outbreaks of clinical disease were treated with the same drug, usually in the drinking water. However in July 2002 the manufacture and sale of all three licensed products containing dimetridazole (Emtryl Soluble for Game Birds, Emtryl Pure for Game Birds and Emtryl Premix for Game Birds) was suspended, pending discussions between the manufacturers and the European Commission about the Marketing Authorisations for these products. Sufficient dimetridazole remained for completion of the 2002 rearing season, but the game bird industry was faced with the prospect of rearing and releasing in excess of 25 million game birds in 2003 with severely depleted reserves of dimetridazole.

 

Game bird rearing enterprises, feed companies and their veterinary advisers responded by rationalising the use of their remaining stocks of dimetridazole, and reviewing methods of game bird rearing. Several meetings were organised in Scotland, including presentations by SAC Veterinary Services at Duns, Perth, Forres and Grantown prior to the onset of the 2003 rearing season. Great concern was expressed at these meetings that a significant increase in outbreaks of hexamitiasis or trichomoniasis would occur in 2003, detrimentally affecting the health and welfare of the birds.

 

In the years 1998 to 2002, 97% of all diagnoses of motile protozoal infection (hexamitiasis and trichomoniasis) in game birds occurred in the months June to September.

 

The end of September 2003 was, therefore, a valid time to see whether there had been a significant increase in the number of cases of hexamitiasis or trichomoniasis in game birds in 2003. Graph 1 compares the numbers of diagnoses of infection with motile protozoa in game birds submitted to SAC in 2003 with the means for the previous five-year period.

 

The graph shows that there was no increase in submissions of game birds with hexamitiasis or trichomoniasis in 2003. In fact, the July 2003 peak was lower than the mean for the previous five years, and numbers fell away more quickly in August and September 2003 than in the previous five-year period.

 

If the numbers of diagnoses of infection with motile protozoa are considered as a percentage of all game bird submissions in June to September (Graph 2), it can be seen that no percentage increase occurred in 2003.

 

Overall, despite limitations on the availability of dimetridazole in 2003, there was a reduction in the number of submissions of game birds with hexamitiasis and trichomoniasis, and a reduction in the percentage of submissions with these diseases. There are probably several reasons for this reduction, including favourable weather conditions during the crucial months of June to September and a conscious effort on the part of game bird rearers to improve their hygiene and management and reduce various stress factors.

 

Having completed a successful rearing and releasing season with diminished use of dimetridazole in 2003, it will be important that game bird rearers do not become complacent and revert to previous practices. Next year’s weather may not be so kind!

 

T Pennycott, VS Ayr

(December 03)   "

 

Full text & graphs:

 

http://www.sac.ac.uk/mainrep/pdfs/motileprotozoa.pdf

 

 

[Silverdale Lofts]

Bruno the deweerdts have treated for canker in the past

[Guest slugmonkey]

I give vinegar and garlic with elderberry juice on occasion and havent noticed any canker in quite a while

[Guest]

I give vinegar and garlic with elderberry juice on occasion and havent noticed any canker in quite a while

 

I'd be surprised if you had seen canker if you use garlic.  ;D

 

Garlic kills trichomonias, the organism that causes canker.