External Parasites

[Guest]

Not re-opening debate, Jimmy, people know the score and its now up to them.

 

Simply wanted to clarify Harkers involvement after you'd planted that wee doubt.

 

 

[jimmy white]

Extracted from BHW 21st October (Joe Murphy - he of the spanked bottom) p26

 

Ivomectin / dectomax

 

Linda Brooks (SHU Secy) received letter from Harker’s Dr J M Ballany:

 

"Pigeons coming into contact with the above CATTLE products  stand an extremely high risk of being poisoned as the dose rate for these products is 500 micrograms / kg bodyweight which relates to 1ml / 10kg up to a maximum dose of 40ml in cattle. Translating this dose rate to pigeons (average weight 400g) 0.04 of a millilitre would be applied. No pigeon fancier would be capable of administering such a small dose accurately. This dose may well be fatal to pigeons as no research has been done in pigeons with Ivomectin or Dectomax. These products are not intended for amateur use. It is illegal to purchase / administer these chemicals for use on other than the licensed species. Dectomax / Ivomectin are irritating to the skin and eyes and must not be used on dogs. Operators should wear rubber gloves and boots with a waterproof coat and goggles / visor when applying the product.  ""The effect of these chemicals on birds of prey eating treated pigeons would be similar to that of Dieldrin / Lindane as they would accumulate in the bird of prey and,,,, "AND EVENTUALY CAUSE DEATH.""""" Both these chemicals have withdrawal periods up to 56 days after treatment before it is safe to eat meat or drink milk from treated animals.

 

Please advise your colleagues that it is extremely inadvisable to recommend treatment of pigeons with these products."

 

 

 

 

this maybe of help ROLAND, and agrees with my first post on your" sparrowhawks"WHICH I SAID COULD POISON THEM"

[Guest bristolkev]

i use a farm product called noramectin for cows and sheep,i buy it from country wide stores or local farm shops.if they ask what`s it for i just say i keep about 20 sheep,they hand it over no problem but take your address.its in a liquid form just put 0.2mil on the back of the birds neck job done.

 

http://www.wetaskiwincoop.com/noromectin_product.htm

[Guest]

Well this is what Norbrook say about their own product:-

 

Normectin products are species specific veterinary products.

 

Noromectin Pour-On has been formulated for specific use in cattle. It should not be applied or administered to other species, as severe adverse reactions, including fatalities in dogs, may occur.

 

Noromectin Pour-On may be irritating to human skin and eyes and the user should be careful not to apply it to himself or other persons.

 

The fact that you lied to get the product from the supplier and used it on an animal that it isn't licensed for, leaves you open to prosecution, your birds being confiscated, a £5000 fine and banned from keeping animals for the rest of your life.

 

Doesn't seem worth-it to me.  :-/

[THE FIFER]

GOOD STRONG GARLIC IN THE BATH

[jimmy white]

i have went to my agricultual centre and told them it was for my pigeons, no problems at all

[Guest]

i have went to my agricultual centre and told them it was for my pigeons, no problems at all

 

Hi Jimmy. Wondered if you'd that feeling too that something here isn't adding up here?

 

Elsewhere we have posts that Ivomec is killing and ridding us of hawks by the dozen, yet we don't have newspapers headlines and peak hour TV news bulletins from the likes of the RSPB telling the world & its cousin about hawks being persecuted & found dead & poisoned all over the place???

 

And with poultry being such big business [trillions of dollars worldwide] and Ivomec a 'farm industry product' wondered why the manufacturers can't get it licensed for use on these or other birds in the lucrative pet trade?

 

As I say somewhere out there is the truth. Would be nice to know all that the scientists know about this product ... specially the bits we're maybe missing.

 

[Chatrace]

I use Ivromec Cattle type 1% 3 drops in the mouth

 

[stevebelbin]

I noticed recently mine had a canny few lice on them, and was recommended a permethrin based product called Easitox which you can get from an advertisement in the back of the BHW. I did mine a week ago and there wasnt any sign of any lice the next day.  

[Wiley]

i jus use a spray for cage bird and avaries gets rid of em a treat jus a little spray under the wings and tail

[jimmy white]

e mail from ..........

" i am led to beleive that ivermectin has been successful in treating pigeons for worms and external parasites. "

   the product we stock is noromectin which contains 5% ivermectin, this is avaiable atthe price of 22£plus vat and postage 250 ml,,, as this is a pml product we would only sell it for the treatment of cattle and therefor would not be able to supply any furter info other then that is suppled with the product,,,kind regards,,,,,,,,,,,,,

 

why is it not licenced for pigeons, [and yet it works perfectly]  because it kills hawks.

why is it licenced for cattle , because hawks dont kill coos..[cows for the english] :)

take my word for it, it works perfect with racing pigeons, and has a "triple" effect

[Chatrace]

What else is good for Lice and Mites  is a good flea and tick spray for dogs. We use Adams brand. just cover the eyes and nostrials with hand and spray the bird all over. de bugs them in about 20 min.

[Guest]

Yep, Jimmy, suspected much the same as yourself, bit of a con-job ... tell us a few half-truths about harmful to our birds, in hope that thats enough to put us off using it but the real reason we've not to use it might be that its even more harmful to the hawk species.

 

Agree very much with the recent posts too about perfectly good products on the market for getting rid of lice and mites on pigeons with definitely no side effects, definitely not harmful so really don't see need to use ivo/noromectin or other cattle/horse/dog products.

 

Rose, agree with you. But READING BETWEEN THE LINES HERE, I think the real reason is that either it turns the poultry meat poisonous , or it gives it an unpleasant taste. Either way 'useless' for use in the poultry industry on birds meant for the table.

[Roland]

Bruno I believe you read between the lines when it suits you.

Can't see any problem myself with using 'Pour On' if it does the job, like spot on, and rids inside and out side then great, and if a few RSPB rearing birds raised by and paid for by many on the belief to see the hedgerows and back garden thriving, then that is great!

So as a so called ‘Bird Lover’ I find it hard that you seem to be against anyone protecting their’ own, and the country side.

I saw, the in the late 50's to the early 60's. After they had made a come back from the war years - when 'Pigeons' were needed and looked after, many on fence hung there by the Game Keepers! There was still more than enough as pets and flying over head. So the RSPB use them to make money. Fine, and at a cost you seem to believe is well worth paying. There was then plenty and more so now!

Well give over about RSPB rights and all the other garbage about ‘Fines and Legalities’ etc. To my mind you have become a bore. May I humbly suggest you go and donate, raise money etc. for the RSPB and the ‘Hawk Brigades’! Then be a good little boy and leave us to our hobby which our own HARD EARNT money affords us, and what little freedom and joy that is left to us to enjoy while we can. For rest assured no T.V. or well paid ‘Name’ is going to make films, raise money on our account.

[Guest]

Basically you don't seem to understand what you read, Roland.

 

'Reading between the lines' was talking purely about why the product you and others recommend wasn't licensed for use in poultry. Didn't notice you telling us.

 

You also didn't see any peregrine recovery in the 50's and 60's - like every other bird of prey species they were in tail spin decline because of DDT - which also built up in their bodies and affected their breeding.

 

And I do protect my birds - don't do anything that I know will harm them including giving them a poison that builds up in their body.

 

Yes, I agree, all very boring stuff.

[Roland]

No wrong DDT did affect much, as it had a knock on affect. Like Paramyx... for rabbits. But the 15 - 17 years after the war they were PLENTY hanging on the wires, and that is a fact. RSPB didn't help either after the war, and since when has a ‘Falcon’ been a Hawk!!! eh!

And peregrines were still around. But scare, hardly a feather from 1940 - 45 and that is a fact, just read some old books on it. When the Rambler / Holidays of bed and breakfast was 1/6 pence, 7 and a 1/2 p, they use to see much and it was their holiday, so t5he immediate 10 -12 years after the war when still controlled they had a great revival. Facts with no reading between the lines!

And you treat, like most, with a poison whenever you treat so that is whole Hog Wash, and Me Eye. What kill bacteria for starters! Oh brewers yeast I suppose. And every poison you put into your birds has a reference of dosage etc. I wonder why that is eh! And just look at the treatment that can't be mixed, - but are often of course- I wonder why that is. Custard on my Blackberry and Apple pie never hurt me none. So you just give your bird an herbal treatments eh1

Even Health shops, which with the super markets price wise, have anti goodness if a lot of their products.

Even by products of honey can be poisonous. I. E. whey is great. In very small dosages...! It poisons the system. Etc. etc. etc.

So I am sure I am not going to try and educate all the posters on here what good and bad part every product contains.

Brewers yeast can be a poison for starters if allowed to build up!

Salt is gone. But then again....? Golly just look and al the Turkey pellets etc. used.

Chopped grass has to be good eh just look at the strength and stamina of Bison etc. But pigeon enzymes can't come, need another 2/3 stomachs I guess. Steak has 56 % protein. Uses 40% of that to eat and digest. So Brewers yeast is a lot less, but goes simply and easier to the system. Wonder where pigeon go for it!

Lime is great, most tell you E. Coli etc. etc. and is bad. Never ever yet seen a bird use it that has open hole that is great, and they travel miles over fields to get it, or peck certain walls.

Fresh clean water, from spring or even a well, and wholesome grain. Give a sprinkle each day, and they will tell what their body is lacking or needing... then simply make that 50% - % of their diet for two days... bet next time (2 days later) they tell you different.

They only thing they can't say, because they don't know, are what you have in store for them. End of Topic.

[jimmy white]

SORRY TO BRING UP COTROVERSY, BUT ITS GOOD THAT WE CAN AT LEAST POST OUR VEIWS ON THE FORUM WHICH CAN ONLY BE GOOD IF KEPT TO A DEBATE, ALL I CAN SAY IS THAT IVE USED IVERMECTIN , ,[THE GOOD STUFF] WHICH IVE PROOVED IT HAS DID MY BIRDS NO HARM AND RID THEM OF INTERNAL AND EXTERNAL PARASITES, THAT IS MY OPINION AND IM" STICKING" TO IT

[Guest beautyhomer]

As some of you may be aware I work on a farm. Although not a poultry farm I know enough about the industry to have an educated opinion on the use of these different mectin products.

It has been stated in previous posts about the milk withhold for dectomax etc.We use Eprinex (epromectin) which has NO milk withhold.Do any of you seriously think farmers can afford to pour milk done the drain when they have a safe alternative?

I can think of several reasons for not using them in poultry

The meat withhold is longer than the time it takes to reach slaughter weight.Therefore they could not be sold for human consumption or would have to be kept longer.As most poultry is reared indoors,where are they going to get worms from in the first place?-no need to worm them.

It might be okay to catch and treat 100 pigeons but can you imagine trying to catch and treat 10,000 chickens!!!!!!!!.It would cost to much in labour and take to long.Any medication that is required is far easier administered in the drinking water.

I hope you can know see why the drug companies have not bothered getting their products licenced for the poultry industry.There is no need for them and they are impractical to administer on a large scale.Not that they are unsafe for birds.

[Roland]

Interseting, and simple logic beautyhomer. Thanks for posting.

I believe kiss is and alway will be best, well 90% of the time. Keep It Sweet and Simple.

[ribble]

i have noticed that some people use ivomec on there pigeons orally as chatrace does,and some put it on the skin.

the people who are putting it on the skin are you using the injectable type or is that the pour on type.the injectable seems to be double the strength but would that penatrate the skin?

bristolkev are you using the pour on or injectable??

[Roland]

Spot on etc. and many others now have a great affect both inside and out. ... On many things.

Obviously the best formatt I beleve personally is for members to club together and use 'Pour On' and this has added benefits.

  

[ribble]

so would the injectable be no use as spot on?

[Roland]

Different strokes for different reasons ... Pour on, and then Spot on. why needlessly upset the birds with injection! I know that they seem to quickly get over the jab... But In reality the less medicene etc. use the better.

Know many a good fancier that WORMS etc. before pairing, the CAnker etc. then when eggs are 14 days treats for Canker again.

Might use a little B/Y but mainly just cleand Feed and fresh water which is quickly taken away. What else is essential? !

[snowy]

GARLIC WATER FOR BATHS!

i aint seen any lice at all this year,

plenty of baths with strong garlic water. & moth balls in the loft!

thanks to members of this forum it done the job!

;D

[ribble]

roland,not sure if you understand my question or maybe only i do.

what i want to know is,could the injectable be used as a one spot,ive no intention of injecting them with it.

it seems to be the same apart from double the strenght,so i don't see why it wouldn't be ok.but is there any one who can answer yes or no.