Electrolytes - good or bad?

[debonair.pidjin]

Hi. What do you think about using electrolytes before/after the race? Before the race, I use one that also "prevents thirst" in returning pigeons, at least that's what it says...

 

I read something interesting from Gordon Chamers...and I really don't know what to do. ARE the electrolytes good or not?! Do you use them?

 

Here's what made me think about it:

 

"I have discussed this matter with a number of veterinarians including several in the USA, the UK and Belgium. Both they and Dr Wim Peters of South Africa believe there is no need at all for electrolytes for healthy racing birds. As one example, this is Dr Peters's reasoning, used with his permission (some of my added comments are in brackets), quote:

 

"Electrolytes are often included in a vitamin preparation. I do not think that their use in pigeons is necessary; as a matter of fact I believe that they could be harmful, particularly to the dehydrated pigeon returning home from a long race on a hot day. Imagine this scenario: it's a hot day and the race is from 800 km (500 miles). A bird makes it back just before dark. What has happened to it during the day? Flying requires muscular activity which rapidly builds up heat, particularly with high (environmental) temperatures. The bird must dispose of this heat, otherwise it will be unable to continue. Too much heat will kill it! The only way to rid itself of enough heat is via respiration. (Some is lost through the legs and skin but the eventual effect is the same). Respiration causes water loss from the mouth and respiratory system. Note well: water only, no salts. Increased respiration causes increased water loss. The pigeon becomes dehydrated from all this loss but manages to reach home. We now have a flown out and dehydrated pigeon and wish to restore its physiological equilibrium as quickly as possible. Water was lost from the system (from blood and body tissues) but the salts (electrolytes) are more or less unchanged - in other words the concentration of electrolytes is higher than normal (because of the loss of water).

 

Giving more electrolytes now would worsen the condition. What is needed is plain water - as soon as possible. Warm it up, by all means, but do not add electrolytes. The usual feed can be given. But I prefer pellets, as they are semi-cooked, turn into mash after intake which means that they do not first have to be ground to pulp, have a large surface area exposed to the digestive enzymes and are pretty much balanced in their proteins, carbohydrates, fats, vitamins and minerals. All this means they provide a rapid supply of essential food stuffs with which to build up the pigeon as quickly as possible. The electrolytes that the pigeon did lose via its kidneys and bowels are easily replaced by the salts normally contained in a balanced diet. It does not need extra replenishment.

 

I am fully aware of the controversial opinions held by various people, drug firms and organizations with respect to electrolyte supplementation of racing pigeons. There have been, as far as I'm aware, unfortunately no adequate studies done on the necessity of their inclusion in the diet of actively racing pigeons. The often-quoted work done in Belgium by the University of Ghent, came to the conclusion that electrolyte replenishment was not necessary in the diet of post-race pigeons. But their work measured the pH of the birds' blood before and after a race and the speed with which pH (a measure of the acidity or alkalinity in the blood) equilibrium was restored both in the pigeons that received post-race electrolytes and those that did not. (They found that there was no difference between the two groups)."

[Guest Greig the doo Drysdale]

on return from a race i give my birds elctrolytes and a small picking of either conditioning seed or a little mixture and a few peanuts on the floor and within a day or 2 at the most they are back to full body again and ready for another training toss by the tuesday

[Guest]

There's a lot more on this thread:-

 

http://www.pigeonbasics.com/forum/blah/m-1154563900/s-17/highlight-electrolytes/#num17

[debonair.pidjin]

Great info, thanks! So, I guess I will stop giving them electrolytes!

[Roland]

Dehydrates them further I believe. Mollasses ... But the best thing is surely just three peanuts...

[me]

Great info, thanks! So, I guess I will stop giving them electrolytes!

 

Its not quite as simple as that I'm afraid otherwise why would you be able to buy rehydration salts for kids and old people over the counter at chemists? Think about it!!

 

THe thing to do with birds who have had a long hard fly is too give plain water or possibly some dextrose in it if you think a quick pick me up is necessary. Certainly a normal feed when the bird returns would be out of the question if its a channel race it could be well after 10pm if you have been lucky enough to get one on the night. The time to give electrolytes is after the first "normal" feed there is much less chance of causing any problems as opposed to curing them.

 

NOTE this is only for post race old birds, if I had a team of young birds with the skits I would not hesitate to give electrolytes(rehydration salts) to help them through the crisis if I thought it was required. Hope this helps.

 

[debonair.pidjin]

Hi! As far as I know, for people it's a different situation - the body works different.

[Roland]

Only time when a 'Pick me Up' may be needed is when it has had a totally hard day! Never mind the 'Channel' many of them are easy ones, and eve the 8 hours ones would only need three peanuts and water! Yes Glucose / Dextramine etc. are good. But the reason that one should only offer small seeds, with even a little linseed, is because it may have had to dig deep, and as such may have burnt some units off it's muscles. This will  - especially with further high Protien or forced exercise over the next few days would become very toxic. Protien in excess is a sure way of putting pioson into the system.

And why anyone when a bird has flown out, needing water, they think to use electros a good thing to further dehydrate a birds is beyond me, and the realms of reason! JMO

[me]

Only time when a 'Pick me Up' may be needed is when it has had a totally hard day! Never mind the 'Channel' many of them are easy ones, and eve the 8 hours ones would only need three peanuts and water! Yes Glucose / Dextramine etc. are good. But the reason that one should only offer small seeds, with even a little linseed, is because it may have had to dig deep, and as such may have burnt some units off it's muscles. This will  - especially with further high Protien or forced exercise over the next few days would become very toxic. Protien in excess is a sure way of putting pioson into the system.

And why anyone when a bird has flown out, needing water, they think to use electros a good thing to further dehydrate a birds is beyond me, and the realms of reason! JMO

 

Has your "local" (pub) got internet access Roland lad?!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!1

 

 

[Roland]

Lol ... why you thinking the so -called yeast in beer would be a better way put to the birds!

[timbarra]

hi roland , i only give eletrolytes to my breeding birds as i find when they feeding after about 7-8 days their body salt levels drop and need 2 days electrolyte to restore it, race birds get plain water every day maybe a calcium supplement added every 2 weeks .

 

 

cheers spence

[span2]

i have always used electrolites for my young birds and they are the picture of health and have been for the past 3 years!!!! doesnt hurt to help them recover from a flight - particularly on a hot day!!  i also use them for my old birds too if i think that they needed it - but with their experience, they tend to conserve their energy more than the young birds

[stoolpigeon]

its a must after races or on hot training day

[speedbird]

has anyone used sea salt fr this?

[jimmy white]

i have used electrolytes or reheydration salts in the past, tried it in one section ,,,the other section just plain water ,,,after a 350 mile race ,,,the ones that had the electrolytes or reheydration salts ,,,droppings back to normal sooner