wing down

[nutverlal]

hi there all

 

just need some advice.

 

what is the syptoms for paramixture?

 

would the pigeon lose use of one of thew wings?

 

or is it a different illness or injury?

 

many thnaks

 

[johnny11]

a classic sign of paratyphus, but could easily be banged.

[Guest Paulo]

is its head twisting around?

[Wiley]

is the wing lame??are any other signs on lameness there

[johnny11]

Paulo

 

The head twisting is only seen when the disease is advanced and rarely it is futile treating at that stage.

 

Get the droppings checked out

 

John

[Guest Hjaltland]

Are there any other signs of damage, look under the armpit  - it may have hit something like wires? If there are no signs of damage you should really be looking at a visit to the vet. As Johnny says, getting the droppings checked is a start.

[sapper756]

If it,s a racer dispose of it, it will never be any good on the road now. However if it,s a valuable stock bird, get it to the vets asasp.

[nutverlal]

hi there all

 

thnaks for the replies.

 

There is no sign of the pigeons swing or twisting its head.

 

All it is that one of the wings is lower and hence it has not been flying for the last week.

 

It is a tippler and the recorder time withme has been 3 hours and that was last week.

 

The last few days the wings is getting covered with droppings.

 

The pigeon has been teated with canker, coco and canker and the water dailiy is the seven in 1 formula.

 

many thnaks

 

please keep the advise coming.

 

 

[Wiley]

u sure it hasnt bashed it somewhere

[nutverlal]

i do not think so. Occassionally it will fly on their own.

 

There is no large tree or wires near the pen.

 

i just do not know, as another fancier made the comment that para can be in the wings.

 

that is why I am asking the question?

[Guest]

Unless the bird is also showing signs of illness, in its droppings or in the way it looks, I'd be inclined to think that it has had a knock and injured its wing. This type of injury seems to me to be a more common cause than illness. Heals itself.

 

Injury might cause bruising along the leading edge of the affected wing, under the feathers, and usually quite hard to see.

 

Have seen a vet use a little spray bottle (water?) just a short burst on the spot on the feathers covering the bony part of the wing where he thought the bird had taken the knock, part the dampened feathers between his fingers, exposing the skin underneath which showed bruising.

 

 

 

 

[gaz g oddfellows.com]

hello i wants had paramixo when i first started flying back in 2000 would not wish it on any one. birds where rapidly losing waight and floors like they just had bucket of water poured over them.had birds dying in 3s by the time i got to speak to the vet it was 2 late they where looking like the exercist and flying like tumberlers at 2 kill them all.  60 of them so that was the start of my pigeon career so all i can say if any think looks of get them out as ive never had or seen anythink like it since any think looks at me the wrong way and they got to go ????

[nutverlal]

Hi there All

 

Thanks for all the information.

 

I have been to the VET this afternoon.

 

The wings have not been damaged in any way shape or form.

 

The birds havd a sign of paratyphode and the medicaction is Baytril Antibotics.

 

Every expenses medication. All birds are on it for the next five days course.

 

I would like to wish everyone a merry christmas and a happy new year.

And also happy Eid.

 

[lofty]

Hi

When paratyphoid causes symptoms of lameness in either legs or wings the affected joint feels hot to the touch then becomes stiff.  

might be an idea half way through the treatment to clean out the loft and wash everything down with bleach and hot water

wash the birds feet with warm soapy water before you retun them to the loft

otherwise they will soon re-infect themselves.

Then consider vaccinating them all against paratyphoid after treatment.

It is best to cull any birds that start showing symptoms after vaccination

PS the treatment for salmonella (paratyphoid) is usually for at least 2 weeks ??

and unfortunately not all birds will be cleared of the germs some will remain carriers and vaccination can cause these birds to start showing symptoms

The big problem with this disease is the fact that apparently healthy birds can harbour the germ and shed it only occasionally

Any birds that seem to be losing weight (after being wormed) and never seems to reach good 'form' should be suspect

Lofty

 

[BIGK]

The vet may have advised the treatment just in case of a bacterial infection, there are other things that can have an effect on the wings and muscles, lack of vitamins and other feed suppliments can affect the wings etc and as with all mscles they can be stretched, strained or can cramp up, dont always think the worst as others have said there are other symptoms that go with bacterial infections so be careful, get the correct diagnosis and treat accordingly.

[Roland]

http://www.chevita.com/tauben/behandlung-englisch/specificinfections_paramyxovirus.htm

I found this to be interesting enlightment...

[Roland]

I also feel that Samanella plays a bigger part than many give it credit for ..

http://www.avianbiotech.com/diseases/salmonella.htm

[lofty]

Its true it does especially as it can cause so many different , often vague symptoms

such as lameness, sterility, nervous symptoms similar to paramyxovirus,weight loss,poor hatchability and nestling mortality  

 

And the problem is made worse by indiscriminate use of antibiotics

-expose the germs to antibiotic at too low a dose or for too short a time to kill them and it is only a matter of time before they 'learn' how to resist it and that's another one to add to the list that doesn't work anymore.

 

Tests for the disease are also expensive as it needs 3 negative droppings samples tested a week a part to be sure a bird is clear.

It is also more common than than one would expect - A study by Baay conducted in the netherlands during 1983 found that at the end of the racing season 67%of race baskets were infected with paratyphoid

 

(baaij,j. 1983 Salmonellose by Postduiven. Een studie overepidemiologie en preventie. 3,17-18,33.)

 

Of course not all symptoms mentioned can be attributed to paratyphoid but it is definately something to be born in mind!

Lofty

[johnny11]

To Sapper

 

I have witnessed this condition of lame wing in pigeons from two seperate fanciers. So bad they cannot get on the perch. Yet both these pigeons went on to top the fed, I know for sure that these were the same pigeons that had the droopy wing.

 

So dont condem them all if the pigeon is a good bird it can still go on to win. Armand Scheers in his video stated that paratyphoid will rear its ugly head in autumn and winter and if similar symptoms are seen in Summer or spring then it is usually something else.

 

John

[Roland]

Well al but two ... the same one if let with hardly any water next draoppings a lot better of course ... but still wet. Another late bred went down over night ... treated For cocci as it was really light ... have been Yalkult but still no good. will eliminate to day I guess.

The first one - i sent you droppings... well I give up, still looks a picture of healthgreat to handle, white beak etc. but wet droppings, both are seperated from the others.

The other loft that I over treat use to have saturated floor, could have mopped it out, but floor dry now, and every da the droppings arelooking a lot better, have now started with a little Yakult  on feed each day, but wanted to see an improvement first... is happening big time and are looking realy well.

The other two sections are a picture of health.

Frank Bristows birds and Chris Balsams are just great ... will cross them and let others bring up the young after sitting 3/4 days... Chris is send me a few pairs too ... will let them stock birds bring up their young two, Will race the 12 youngest off Frank and Chris dry, and let them have a late round to bring up.

Time to neck the other two I guess? ..

Take care mucker

Roly

[stevebelbin]

Could it not have been simply because the bird was on his last flight. I had one similar last year and it was because the flight hadnt formed properly, so I just pulled it out and waited for another to grow. He was fine after that. Vets just administer antibiotics just to be safe in my opinion!!!

[lofty]

Hi John

           The wing lame pigeons you speak of wouldn't have had the problem

caused by paratyphoid. any joints affected by this disease become ankalosed

and 'set' and even cortisone injections have little effect.

So could have been caused by something else, possibly injury, calcium deficiency

or paramyxovirus although one of the first signs of paramyxovirus is profuse watery droppings due to the virus attacking the kidneys.

Birds can recover from paramyxo and win races even if they progressed to showing nervous symptoms.

 

It makes it easier to find the cause if you split diarrhoea into two parts..

IE if the normally solid bit is liquid but streaks of the white are still present then the problem is in the intestines.

 

If the solid bit is normal but the white bit has turned to water then the problem in in the kidneys

lofty

[lofty]

Hi stevebelbin

Couldn't agree more

not long ago I had some bantams with what was thought to be mycoplasma and the vet wanted to give me linco spectin (cost £90)

I insisted he take a sample to test for sensitivity (cost £10)

3 days later the results came back and the organism was resistant to 6 different antibiotics!!!  

Theoretically it could have cost me a small fortune for useless drugs, not to mention wasting valuable time treating the birds with something that worked!

Lofty

[johnny11]

Lofty totally agree with what you said. I spoke to a very well educated professor in Avian medicine and he informed me that the lame wing is a very mild form of salmonella/ Paratyphoid and the "set" joint is an advanced form and when it is in the joints and advanced the bird is probably unable to race again.

 

this wing lameness is becoming too common in this part of the country to be one of the other explanations, and mainly in the autumn and winter months,. Im no way dismissing your point of view but think that this is indeed a form of paratyphus. If more fanciers were open I bet alot more would have this condition than what we think

 

John

[Guest]

Roland, I would bet paratyphus, damaged wing or lump on the body and losing body weight calssic symptons, also have a look at the eyes, they will have got paler, particularly one of the eyes if not two. I would treat Baytril for 10 days 1mm to 2 litres, once you have done that vaccinate for paratyphus next day and give probiotic and vits for a couple of days. Getting the vaccine may be a problem but I'm sure someone on here will know a source and hopefully pm you, they can pm me to if they would, cause I like to do mine every November if poss.

As to signs in summer I don't think the old bird swill go down but YB will under stress. I think it is far more prevalent than is discussed/admitted.

I know there are those that say natural immunity is best and in principle I don't disagree with them, however we now live in the time of the super bug and such treatments don't work once the infection takes hold.

Unlike my posts on the eye, this is an opinion based on past experiences and I'm only trying to help,I do not claim to be an expert on this.

One other point once you've vacinated after the 10 day period don't be surprised if some are knocked over. You are better off without them.