p m v once again

[blackswan]

once again up it pops p m v  the summer has gone and the racing is finnished then up it pops  are they jagging there pigeons or just taking a chance but the fanciers are not comming clean are the federation officals doing there jobs i think that birds are going on the transporters and p m v sheets not checked are the clubs doing there bit.

[OLDYELLOW]

only one way to sort this vacinating of P.M.V is to have a club vacination in front of all members , the sheets done by members are only as honest as the members themselves , its a small cost to vacinate and has to be cheaper than loosing all your birds . Those that arent vacinating are doing nothing for the sport in doing so.

[Guest IB]

Well it also possible that the birds are being vaccinated but it is not taking effect. Maybes done when youngsters are too young or too old, or ill?

[OLDYELLOW]

well i suppose its up to defra to indicate newer more resistant strains if thats is the case and make a new vaccine in the cases of birds been treated ,  im sure if that was the case then we would be made aware by the powers that be.

[terry mccarthy]

pmv vaccine does nothing to stop your birds getting it weather u jab them at 2 days old or 3 months old thats fact if anything i would say it does the oppisite waste of money but we have to do it as the law says just waiting for the bird flu vacine to come out now so they can rob us some more

[ch pied]

pmv vaccine does nothing to stop your birds getting it weather u jab them at 2 days old or 3 months old thats fact if anything i would say it does the oppisite waste of money but we have to do it as the law says just waiting for the bird flu vacine to come out now so they can rob us some more

terry , i for one would like to see the hard evediance , to back up your statment regarding PMV vaccine , and if it is fact as you say , then we can force the power's to be ( DEFRA ) to do a U turn on the current legislation , its been on going since 1983 ,

 

 

[Roland]

Doesn't stop birds being carriers for one iota.

They can look good enough for the show pens. Hear tell though that it does bring down their racing performances.

Some jab several times before they are even 4 months old.

Believe Larry Lucus was involved in such a debate on the Alberta Classic site. Know also Gordon Chambers with Doc Karl etc. also debated the wisness of 3/4 jabs before ...

[Roland]

A good fanciers' birds were bred for stock etc. So they had their jabs as the law requires. Never jabbed again after the first year. 7 years later some were stopped from entering Australia becourse PMV still showed up in the Quarantine tests etc.

[Guest bigda]

its a must that we do vaccinate as this virus is about,its because the ones that think they

know  best, and  by not  doing it  cause it to  spread to lofts,    this vaccine was not just plucked out of the thin air its needed  because we live in this environment with the rats and mice epidemic and the housing of poultry in large numbers its   for  no other reason  invite this vires into  your loft  and you will be as well bend down and let  your club   boot you where the sun dont shine,  for been so thick!  your not just wasting your time your are trying to waste  every one elses, as a few of you now  relalise how you got it  in the first place  by mixing with  sick birds  

[bewted]

terry , i for one would like to see the hard evediance , to back up your statment regarding PMV vaccine , and if it is fact as you say , then we can force the power's to be ( DEFRA ) to do a U turn on the current legislation , its been on going since 1983 ,

 

 

as regards vaccine in the 80`s,,,,,i was at a club meeting then and going on about pmv,,,,,,,did people realise then that the vaccine only covered,i think 4,of the 9 known pmv`s then,,,,,,,,,,,so,why was it law to vaccinate birds flying into france and not inland races and why sell you vaccine then that only covered 4 out of 9 pmv` ?

 

have things changed with pmv since then or are the public still being swindled by the government,,,,,,ask your selves that !!!!!!

[terry mccarthy]

i remember 1 year jabbing my birds with columovac birds were in outstanding condition next morning birds were very ill 3 weeks later 2 birds couldnt even find there food they were missing it badly so culled now wat caused this was it just bad luck or the vaccine

[ch pied]

its a must that we do vaccinate as this virus is about,its because the ones that think they

know  best, and  by not  doing it  cause it to  spread to lofts,    this vaccine was not just plucked out of the thin air its needed  because we live in this environment with the rats and mice epidemic and the housing of poultry in large numbers its   for  no other reason  invite this vires into  your loft  and you will be as well bend down and let  your club   boot you where the sun dont shine,  for been so thick!  your not just wasting your time your are trying to waste  every one elses, as a few of you now  relalise how you got it  in the first place  by mixing with  sick birds  

agreed , PMV vaccination it is a necessary evil , we have no choice but to use the vaccine we have at present , untill a better 1 is developed , ROLY i also agree with the point's you made on the above post's

 

 

[jimmy white]

has anyone seen a  pmv epidemic in feral pigeons ??

[bewted]

has anyone seen a  pmv epidemic in feral pigeons ??

 

never have,but,i have seen it in starlings !!!

[Roland]

has anyone seen a  pmv epidemic in feral pigeons ??

 

Remember having a Labradour dog once. Yes had all it;s jabs etc. Pava killed it.

Vet said 'Mongrels  have built up an immunity, and don't do them no harm... pedigrees , well  thats another matter.

Lad was always being took to the doctor, had every ailment going or so mum thought. Disenfected everything etc. etc. One day the doc say 'For G'''s sake let him eat some mud pies etc. build up an immunity.......

Now often wonder when many fanciers wanted to do the same in the 80's with their pigeons, it was made compusory. often wonder just what was the real reason and what was they really protecting!

[superstar]

has anyone seen a  pmv epidemic in feral pigeons ??

 

I wouldnt say an epidemic but did see quite a few cases a few years back in the town centre here in Hereford. Took 3 up a quiet side street and put them out of their misery. As for it affecting homing ability, I guess if you vaccinate the day before a race then maybe you are in trouble but cant see it has an adverse effect on that instinct if done at a very early age well before racing and training starts. My personal opinion is its a mugs game not to vaccinate against PMV my pigeons have and always will be worth more than the few pence a bird it costs.

[Guest]

If you beleive that the jag works then you should not fear putting your birds in with birds that have not been jaged the jury is still out with me but iam not willing to take the chance not to jag but what bothers me is the constant jagging lowering the resistance to other things?

[Roland]

If you beleive that the jab works then you should not fear putting your birds in with birds that have not been jabbed the jury is still out with me but iam not willing to take the chance not to jag but what bothers me is the constant jagging lowering the resistance to other things?

Yhe arguemant against that , as relayed to me, was 'Yeah, but jabbed birds will still carry ... and that affects their performance race wise'! Go figure I guess

 

 

[jimmy white]

If you beleive that the jag works then you should not fear putting your birds in with birds that have not been jaged the jury is still out with me but iam not willing to take the chance not to jag but what bothers me is the constant jagging lowering the resistance to other things?

 

i would go along with this,, if you have vaccinated your pigeons,,,by rights , you should have no worry in your birds contracting paramyxo virus even when mixing with other birds ,,, my worry also would be that by injecting for any desease, a desease would mutate rendering the original vaccine useless , we then [or the powers that be] would have to change the vaccine accordingly , then after a while this mutation would appear again , so again the vaccine would have to be changed ,, the law says we vaccinate so this is a must ,,,,,,,,but at the same time there is a lot of money invoved , and the old adage, opposite way  worded ,, where theses muck, theres money    off course defra are not worried about our pigeons ,,its the newcastles desease in chickens that is their worry [which again is money]   we spoke about hybrid vigour,, this is perfectly true,, youll get better eggs, better meat from "midden hens" that roam free around the farms , than the factory type , that are treated for all and sundry laying eggs that the shells are like tissue paper and the yolk like snot >   quite the opposite with the free range "midden" hens" ,,,,,,,,all a sign of the times and all money ;D

[jimmy white]

has anyone seen a  pmv epidemic in feral pigeons ??

 

there  seems  to be far and few of feral pigeons with an EPIDEMIC of paramyxo,,,,,,,,again hybrid vigour and the survival of the strongest,,,as nature intended

[DOVEScot]

I have said many a time our dove cote birds are really healthy, if we have any ailment at all it is from the loft birds, I think Chickadee keeps her lofts far too clean

Midden or now called free range hens are extra for both meat and eggs, cannae wait till the bantams start laying :)

[Guest IB]

Agree that pigeons are vaccinated to protect poultry, not pigeons. How vaccinating racing pigeons protects poultry is beyond me.

 

Having said that, I wasn't in pigeons during 1980's when this disease struck, according to Wim Peters' account, when it entered Europe (Belgium?) , it spread like wildfire to all other countries including here. That tells me that (1) pigeons didn't have any resistance to this disease which appears to have been new to them at that time; and (2) biosecurity must have been a joke in those days to allow it to spread like that. I think we paid for that lack of bisecurity by forced annual vaccination.

 

I have raised the issue of annual vaccination over the years, and there is a movement within veterinary fraternity which suggests that it is a nonsense. Recent posts on other threads here on vaccination prompted some more research and there is evidence to suggest that immune memory lasts for 7/10 years, and because antibodies are already present, and memory recognises the virus, any subsequent vaccination will have no effect on immunity, in fact it doesn't even spark an immune response.

 

However, in 2006 UK Home Office commissioned a study lasting 6 years to go over the whole vaccination / immune system question. We obviously have a while to wait for that.

 

I've also decided to email Fort Dodge on Colombovac vaccine. I want to know if the virus pool to create the vaccine is updated annually, and I also want to know what evidence they  have that the vaccine gives only one year's immunity (against what?).

 

 

[johno]

how many people are offered and take the flu jab every year? cholera is an annual jab. many jabs are annual and will continue to be it is common. rabies jabs take around 18 months to cover the course and further boosters are required. lock jaw jab requires updating regularly. why is it the pigeon fraternity think they know better?

[Guest IB]

how many people are offered and take the flu jab every year? cholera is an annual jab. many jabs are annual and will continue to be it is common. rabies jabs take around 18 months to cover the course and further boosters are required. lock jaw jab requires updating regularly. why is it the pigeon fraternity think they know better?

 

 

 

It's not just the pigeon fraternity that are asking these questions. My post refers to a study. I attach a quote describing that Study. Read it and you will see it is far more than pigeons, it is vaccination in general, including all animals and also the human issues you raise.

 

Just a note expanding on the on-going debate in many domestic animal circles on the need for annual vaccination.

 

This is a short extract describing a scientific study commissioned by the Home Office where immune memory is discussed.

 

 

04september-2006

 

368: Studies on immune memory and regulation

Date: 29th Aug 2006

 

This programme of work is intended to extend our understanding of immunological memory and immune regulation with the attendant benefits that may follow for human and animal health.

 

The reason vaccines work is because the immune system exhibits memory, it responds better the second time it sees a microbe. How it does this is still hotly debated. For instance, immune memory is very long-lasting, however, the cells in the immune system are always under severe competition for space and survival, as every time an immune response occurs more cells are made; so how can memory cells survive for long periods? This is one of the questions that will be addressed in this project. Another question relates to how flexible in modality the memory response is, eg. will the memory response be the same as the primary response and if not how is this achieved? It�s important that it has this flexibility is maintained as otherwise memory may be unable to protect us in all situations and may cause damaging reactions (eg. by making inappropriate inflammatory cytokines).

 

 

 

 

[johno]

until people who are infinitely more expert than we are affirm that repeat vaccination is a waste of time no one is in a position to do anything other than make assumptions which are often founded on thin if any facts. all we have to do is look at situation that has developed regarding the tripple mmr vaccine. we should leave well alone until better informed and better advised in my opinion.