use antibiotics/ sickness

[Guest IB]

 

Yes have done for the last couple of years which was with Parastop, never used antibiotics or vaccinated as was told by the manufacture that there was not a need to.

 

 

This is taken from the paratyphoid 'sticky thread'. Parastop is an antibiotic.

 

 

Norfloxacin is the active ingredient in Parastop. It is in the same "family" of drugs as ciprofloxacin hydrochloride (Cipro) and enrofloxacin (Baytril).

 

 

[Guest]

ib no disrespect but iam 100% with walter on this one the season is too short to have a health disaster just when your getting ready for the 2/3 races you have waited all year for so for me i will try and get my birds in the best possible condition  health and fitness as for them bieng antibiotics for canker/worms /cocci i think you are reading it different from me ian heres something all fanciers should try if you can reach your gutter either by ladder or a scoop on a pole wait till its been dry/warm for a couple of days (if we are lucky to get any sun ) and scoop a small bit from the gutter and spread it out on the path and watch the worms/bugs trying to get clear now thats the sh-- that your birds are in about every week iam not saying treat every week but at important times through the season all the big winning lofts will so if you want to be left behind do nothing i know what i will be doing as usual

[Guest IB]

Frank, I agree that nobody wants to be stopped racing mid-season. Happened to me once 3 years ago & won't happen again.

 

I think you were there that night in Westquarter club when Dr Lynch was questioned on 'medicaments'. Basically I copied what he said he does: After the moult, he gets them tested, and treats when necessary.

 

So I do the same - and watch them from then on. I've said antibiotics originally all came from bacteria, and I make sure my birds all carry their own natural antibiotic source: the billions lining their gut. They get a probiotic every month of the year, and have done for 3 years.

    

 

 

[jimmy white]

 

Jimmy they say horses for courses, I also believe in 'a time and place'.

The difference between now and then is big. I'm reiterating what I've written before but I still think it's valid. If you take humans as an example when I was a child in the 50's I nearly died because of a burst appendix, I was out cold for 3  days after the op, today the chances of my lad going through the same are remote. Youngsters had polio, today not so (though is reappearing I understand) measles regular as clockwork; nearly disappeared in this country until people stopped vaccinating because of MMR fears, now it is a danger again. The anti vaccination league blamed everything on MMR, parents worried about their kids stopped vaccinating out of fear. Now it's finally accepted the threats weren't there (though of course with any health program some may face reaction). There are fanciers on here that seem to have eaten a medical dictionary for breakfast and also appear to have digested the contents! How many of these same fanciers have relied on modern medicine to cure them of ills, how many take a tablet everyday for whatever, and how many now live in to their 80s whereas when I was a lad males lasted to the end of their 60s.

There is no doubt we have become reliant as a society on drugs, the draw backs of course are that we have super bugs, even our Hospitals cannot maintain a sterile environment, we have C Dif, Noro virus, flesh eating disease. I believe directly as a result of our use of drugs that this has happened we have lost our resistance, immunity levels have gone down. It’s the same with life style. Until I was 15 years of age we had no hot water, coal fire, nothing else, had to bathe in a tin bath, (used to give me the collywobbles) outside toilet and for toilet paper? Newspaper! I use to have circuit fitness training two or three times a week, play Rugby Saturday morning, football in the afternoon. Always out played sport all year around. Today my heating broke down yesterday, ok I’m getting older but I’m cold and it’s not even cold today, when I was young never felt it. When I played rugby I could run in to a brick wall and not get hurt, today the dog jumps on me and might even bruise me! I’m soft as are we all, well perhaps not all!

The above I think you can translate to our birds, look at the old lofts I remember the old ramshackle lofts on the sides of the valleys, open to the elements , you used to get birds from Thurso even if you were behind, today if they’re not on the winning day many don’t come. Look at the modern disease paramixo, YB sickness, though some old timers will say they were about 50 years ago; but I don’t think anyone can dispute there are new superbugs that will be a threat to our birds.

As fanciers we have a conundrum, do we live with survival of the fittest and do we resign ourselves to be partially non competitive or do we medicate possibly damage our birds

Survival of the fittest

Perhaps I’m getting soft in my old age but I care about my birds and I hate losing any. From my perspective I look at this way. If a Doctor tells me my son needs treating ‘x’ way and if I don’t he will be endangered I will every time go with the doctor’s advice. But the Vet?? I’ll answer that further on.

I said about being partially competitive, this is a generalisation but I think a fair one, the fanciers who do not treat are in a minority and tend to be the long distance fanciers. They have a better chance because to have a loft of quality 500/700 milers the birds have to have the’ best’ constitutions and because of this will have the greatest resistance and immunity. And if the birds have been bred from generations of their ilk they will be resistant. But such birds are not going to be competitive at 100 /300 mile for example (as a general rule) these birds tend to be faster, of a different build and constitution. As fanciers we often talk about constitution and think that birds with great constitutions are superior, well yes if you want to fly Barcelona but they are not perhaps if you want to win from the sprints. So what do you do if you want to win the sprints where that tenth of a yard makes the difference your pigeon needs to be right on top of its game and if it has got something then it’s not going to win, because these birds don’t have iron constitutions. A treatment program is far more essential to keep these pigeons in optimum condition. There will be fanciers who win consistently at sprints  and don’t medicate but I am convinced these are rare.

Coming back to the conundrum if my birds don’t seem right I will do whatever is needed to get them right, I’m afraid I’m not one whose psyche can sit by and let only the fittest survive. I don’t see anything wrong with that and would compare it to the way for example I would deal with my son.

The route of pigeon fancier’s problems when it comes to medication is not medicating but having the right advice to do this. After all if my boy is unwell he goes to the doctors if my birds are unwell they don’t go to the vets.

When I lived up North I had the privilege of having as my vet the one who used to write in the Homing World, a lovely guy who sadly died at a young age with MS. Whenever I went to him we would discuss the birds and I would tell him how I wanted to treat my birds and why; he provided the expertise in terms of the drug and the right dosage. When he died I went to another vet in the practice and as was the case took one pigeon with me. The first words uttered were gosh this bird has some muscle and very smooth feathering, compared to the normal pigeons [streeties] he dealt with. He didn’t have a clue about pigeons, he asked me what I wanted and I got them! In fairness I was not charged a consultation fee (never was there). But the vet knew nothing.

When I moved down to the West Country took the dog for his yearly vac and asked if  they had any pigeon fanciers on their books or any experience of treating them. Was told their expertise was with cats, dogs and farm animals. Haven’t taken my birds there. If I could get a decent Vet I would go regular and follow her/his advice.

As I can’t I’ve tried to learn and talk to other fanciers and solve that way but to have routine medication during racing. It’s modern times I’m afraid and maybe reflected in where we live to. You have to make your choice and have the utmost respect for the non medication guys but it’s not for me.

Sorry if it's incoherent took a bit of time to spew that out.

 

this, i beleive is an ecellent post,, which i completely agree with, , maybe my post was a little mis-leading,, i certainly do not mean to say,, do not treat, but i would say treat when and if neccessary, and if so, very  sensibly, as i said in my post,  my bird was not treated at all yet scored well,, obviously this bird didnt need treating,, but good loft management must go a long way, i,e cleanliness , as you will well know most cocci , worms are picked up in droppings [the eggs or the  oocysts] most fanciers can keep their loft spotless , but sometimes this is not quite the point ,its the  dryness that will kill these oocysts , whether scraped or a good deep litter , but if  droppings are left say , still damp,  and for  over 24 hours, this would be a haven for them , then off course  the less oocysts the birds excrete , the less chance of picking more up, which then becomes a vicious circle,, either to the bad,, or to the good , pigeons will all contain certain levels of these , but only to a point where it is not over the limit,  this  wont do them  any harm , when we treat , we eradicate them all , then i beleive nature will replace them, but falsely, and at an alarming rate [as by treating, we are kicking against nature , then you can be sure that nature  will soon  kick back], but by the same token we are putting our birds through un-natural work loads i.e racing etc,  therefore these levels could well build up due to the [un-avoidable] stress we need to put then through, but birds having an in bred   good constitution may well handle this better than birds that dont have this attribute, i think sometimes in posts we cannot explain our thoughts easy [i certainly cant anyway ;D] but as i say treat if need treated , but only if,, an example being last year a fancier friend doing exceptionally well with his birds, by not having treated,, [ so i cant understand how you can mend something that is not broken,], but this fancier then treated for worms , cocci canker b4 the last couple races," to make sure thier ok" , needless to say he failed miserably,, so i think what im trying to say is good loft hygene [also outside the loft , around the loft , the rhones etc] goes a long way,, and as i said at the beggining of my incoherent posting ;D ;D ;D  i would say treat when, and  if neccessary,,,,,,, and if so, very sensibilly,,,,im sure you would,,, but knew what you were doing,, many fanciers, unfortunately treat willy nilly without having a clue why,, [bet we could chat for ages ;D ;D ;D] b4 i end my prolog ;D ;D ;D, a fancier came to me , said his birds had a respiratory prob , after the usual chat on fresh air and  dryness etc told him if it was that bad,  treat with tylan, the fancier came up to me about 8 weeks later "that stuff is making my birds look better but their still not scoring, when should i stop giving it to them"  true ;D ;D ;D  i think maybe thats why i mentioned the word" sensibily"  ;D ;D ;D  here endith my sermon ;D ;D ;D [but not on the mount ;D]all the very best