Guest IB Posted July 25, 2009 Report Share Posted July 25, 2009 ..medication cures viruses... It doesn't. Even in the current human illness, antivirals only reduce the symptoms. Its the immune system - nothing else - that cures viral illness. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest stb Posted July 25, 2009 Report Share Posted July 25, 2009 will you take the jab for swine flu?..or will you leave it up to fresh air clean water and tlc?.. adeno virus is called because thats what it is...a virus. fresh air dont cure nowt! nor does fresh water..medication cures viruses...ask your doctor! ask your vet! ask anyone who has been very ill recently with a virus and ask wether they think fresh air and water would have cured them. :)the water may have cured them , and the virus. 12ft deep with lid on ;D Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
billy_g Posted July 25, 2009 Report Share Posted July 25, 2009 will you take the jab for swine flu?..or will you leave it up to fresh air clean water and tlc?.. adeno virus is called because thats what it is...a virus. fresh air dont cure nowt! nor does fresh water..medication cures viruses...ask your doctor! ask your vet! ask anyone who has been very ill recently with a virus and ask wether they think fresh air and water would have cured them. dont need the swine flue jab as us scotts are a bit special, but the birds just need no antibiotics the more you give the more damage you do , better the devil you know mate Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Owen Posted July 25, 2009 Report Share Posted July 25, 2009 White Logan is probably at fault for the way he spoke to you but he is right in what he said. Go to the Vet. If nothing else, you will learn something that will help you in the future. No disrepect intended, but a lot of what you are reading on this Forum is crap. If your birds have a virus, there will be nothing you can do to help matters. If, on the other hand, they have a bacteria you can treat the condition with the right antibiotic. The risk will then be that you can have them ill with yeast infection caused by the use of the antibiotics. That will have to be treated. Then of course they will probably get roaring canker as a side effect of the original illness. Again, that will have to be detected and treated. So as White Logan told you, go to a Vet. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest strapper Posted July 25, 2009 Report Share Posted July 25, 2009 It doesn't. Even in the current human illness, antivirals only reduce the symptoms. Its the immune system - nothing else - that cures viral illness. actually the imune system doesnt cure illnesses they help to prevent them entering the body! and when they do enter the body the imune system helps to fight the virus. the imune system learns the make up of the said virus and learns /remembers how it battled to rid it ..next time the virus comes calling the imune system knows how to fight it....so its not a cure either...but just like medication...it helps to rid it. but people with a weak imune system need medication....this hasnt just come around in the last century because of medication...remember the plague...thousands died because there was no medication...their bodies wasnt ruined by medication missuse. because they couldnt afford any ,and there wasnt what we now call a health service. one thing i know...that just about everyone on this site that slams medication...will be the 1st round to the doctors when their children/family get ill...for antibiotics. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Owen Posted July 25, 2009 Report Share Posted July 25, 2009 Well said strapper. I am old enough to remember my Mother having to pay the Docter for his service when I was young and had Double Pneumonia. She could'nt aford to pay it all at once, so she walked about three or four miles to pay it off weekly. You are right, it was the medication she was paying for. I have heard since that the Docter ordered her to have a kettle boiling in the room constantly. The steam was suposed to ease the congestion on my chest. In those days an awful lot of children died of illnesses like that. I was lucky. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest stb Posted July 25, 2009 Report Share Posted July 25, 2009 White Logan is probably at fault for the way he spoke to you but he is right in what he said. Go to the Vet. If nothing else, you will learn something that will help you in the future. No disrepect intended, but a lot of what you are reading on this Forum is crap. If your birds have a virus, there will be nothing you can do to help matters. If, on the other hand, they have a bacteria you can treat the condition with the right antibiotic. The risk will then be that you can have them ill with yeast infection caused by the use of the antibiotics. That will have to be treated. Then of course they will probably get roaring canker as a side effect of the original illness. Again, that will have to be detected and treated. So as White Logan told you, go to a Vet. no disrespect owen but you post plenty crap yourself Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brumby Posted July 25, 2009 Report Share Posted July 25, 2009 see your vet ask for duphatrim (Trimethaprim) use at 2mil/gallon best stuff ever for 7 days Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
W.D. Posted July 25, 2009 Report Share Posted July 25, 2009 take them to a vet you stupid git No need for that, the guy is only asking for some advice and by the sounds of it just paid good money for a test then been sold some of the products that the lab sells on its own label. Been there and got the t-shirt.Its not always easy to find a good pigeon vet in UK,depends on where you live and on the goodwill of your fellow members,thats where this site is invaluable most of the lads on here will go out of their way to help a fellow fancier. Perhaps thats something that we could do for the winter months, maybe put up a list of vets,labs etc.where the guys in different parts of the country can get their birds tested,if more birds going in the race baskets are healthy then surely there's less risk of our birds catching any diseases???!!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest IB Posted July 26, 2009 Report Share Posted July 26, 2009 actually the imune system doesnt cure illnesses they help to prevent them entering the body! and when they do enter the body the imune system helps to fight the virus. the imune system learns the make up of the said virus and learns /remembers how it battled to rid it ..next time the virus comes calling the imune system knows how to fight it....so its not a cure either...but just like medication...it helps to rid it. but people with a weak imune system need medication....this hasnt just come around in the last century because of medication...remember the plague...thousands died because there was no medication...their bodies wasnt ruined by medication missuse. because they couldnt afford any ,and there wasnt what we now call a health service. one thing i know...that just about everyone on this site that slams medication...will be the 1st round to the doctors when their children/family get ill...for antibiotics. You are way off-beam here with your understanding. Every day we and are our birds live in a world surrounded by potential pathogens. We may be under constant challenge every day, but we rarely become ill. At the height of winter flu, if you cannot fight it off yourself, and go to the doctors, you will not be given an antibiotic, you will be given nothing other than advice to go home, go to bed, take a couple of paracetamol keep your body fluids up, and you will be over it in a few days. Paracetamol is a pain-killer, it will relieve symptoms, but not cure it. So what cures your condition if you are taking no cure? The plague was what is called a novel disease ... nobody in the world had ever met it before. As you say deaths would be very high until the population had the right antibodies to challenge it. And it is those antibodies that cure, not antibiotics, antibiotics only reduce the numbers of pathogens to a level that a compromised immune system can cope. No immune system , no cure. Fact. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bluedoo Posted July 26, 2009 Report Share Posted July 26, 2009 Got to agree to get them to a vet. Find out what strain of e-coli. Every warm blooded animal/bird carries it, only some strains are dangerous. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest strapper Posted July 26, 2009 Report Share Posted July 26, 2009 You are way off-beam here with your understanding. Every day we and are our birds live in a world surrounded by potential pathogens. We may be under constant challenge every day, but we rarely become ill. At the height of winter flu, if you cannot fight it off yourself, and go to the doctors, you will not be given an antibiotic, you will be given nothing other than advice to go home, go to bed, take a couple of paracetamol keep your body fluids up, and you will be over it in a few days. Paracetamol is a pain-killer, it will relieve symptoms, but not cure it. So what cures your condition if you are taking no cure? The plague was what is called a novel disease ... nobody in the world had ever met it before. As you say deaths would be very high until the population had the right antibodies to challenge it. And it is those antibodies that cure, not antibiotics, antibiotics only reduce the numbers of pathogens to a level that a compromised immune system can cope. No immune system , no cure. Fact. another fact you missed out on...there is no cure for flu ..thats why people are sent home..without antibiotics....fact. also why do people like the elderly/diabetics given flu jabs each year..if the imune system was enough to cope with it.....vaccinations...to help the imune system as it alone isnt enough. i think we can find different angles to support what we both say but in the end ...there is no doubt that medication prescribed and used in the correct manner is what is needed. i would like to have a medicated free loft but im afraid that these days with all the viruses etc..we have no choice. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest IB Posted July 26, 2009 Report Share Posted July 26, 2009 another fact you missed out on...there is no cure for flu ..thats why people are sent home..without antibiotics....fact. also why do people like the elderly/diabetics given flu jabs each year..if the imune system was enough to cope with it.....vaccinations...to help the imune system as it alone isnt enough. i think we can find different angles to support what we both say but in the end ...there is no doubt that medication prescribed and used in the correct manner is what is needed. i would like to have a medicated free loft but im afraid that these days with all the viruses etc..we have no choice. I think you are talking about two different things in your post, and confusing issues. These for me are:- (1) Only Sick People Need Medication I am in one of the medical groups you mentioned - I am diabetic and prescribed and take medications every day to control the condition, and I need to take it for the rest of my life. (2) Healthy People Do Not Need Medication Sticking to your original example, flu virus. Agreed there is no medical cure for 'common cold' or flu. But normal healthy people shrug them both off, while others need a bit longer and a couple of days rest. That gives the body time to concentrate all its resources to fight the infection, and win. It's a dangerous trade-off because what happens is the body kills part of itself. It kills all infected cells. If it overdoes that , it kills you. That is why many young, otherwise fit people in the 18-25 group succumb to virulent flu, being a respiratory disease, the organs infected are the lungs. Kill too many lung cells, you bleed and drown in your own secretions. So I do use medication, for myself when and as prescribed, and for my birds, when and as prescribed. I do not run to the doctor every time I have a dose of the runs, nor when I have a runny nose; I do not run to the vet every time I see a wet dropping or a bird look a bit off-colour. I try to use common-sense. Medication only when prescribed and needed. Minor stuff, the bird should be able to get over it, given rest & time. And that applies to me too, even with a compromised immune system. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest VINNIE Posted July 26, 2009 Report Share Posted July 26, 2009 hi i think the best advice is get a 2nd opinon i had a friend who had this he was told to use baycox by ian cameron the vet but you need to make sure first you may be treating blind otherwise omo cheers and good luck vinnie Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Freebird Posted July 26, 2009 Report Share Posted July 26, 2009 actually the imune system doesnt cure illnesses they help to prevent them entering the body! and when they do enter the body the imune system helps to fight the virus. the imune system learns the make up of the said virus and learns /remembers how it battled to rid it ..next time the virus comes calling the imune system knows how to fight it....so its not a cure either...but just like medication...it helps to rid it. but people with a weak imune system need medication....this hasnt just come around in the last century because of medication...remember the plague...thousands died because there was no medication...their bodies wasnt ruined by medication missuse. because they couldnt afford any ,and there wasnt what we now call a health service. one thing i know...that just about everyone on this site that slams medication...will be the 1st round to the doctors when their children/family get ill...for antibiotics. Nope, that's the whole problem mate. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
phillips Posted July 26, 2009 Report Share Posted July 26, 2009 e coli is a nasty infection there are a number of products you can use Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Freebird Posted July 26, 2009 Report Share Posted July 26, 2009 I think you are talking about two different things in your post, and confusing issues. These for me are:- (1) Only Sick People Need Medication I am in one of the medical groups you mentioned - I am diabetic and prescribed and take medications every day to control the condition, and I need to take it for the rest of my life. (2) Healthy People Do Not Need Medication Sticking to your original example, flu virus. Agreed there is no medical cure for 'common cold' or flu. But normal healthy people shrug them both off, while others need a bit longer and a couple of days rest. That gives the body time to concentrate all its resources to fight the infection, and win. It's a dangerous trade-off because what happens is the body kills part of itself. It kills all infected cells. If it overdoes that , it kills you. That is why many young, otherwise fit people in the 18-25 group succumb to virulent flu, being a respiratory disease, the organs infected are the lungs. Kill too many lung cells, you bleed and drown in your own secretions. So I do use medication, for myself when and as prescribed, and for my birds, when and as prescribed. I do not run to the doctor every time I have a dose of the runs, nor when I have a runny nose; I do not run to the vet every time I see a wet dropping or a bird look a bit off-colour. I try to use common-sense. Medication only when prescribed and needed. Minor stuff, the bird should be able to get over it, given rest & time. And that applies to me too, even with a compromised immune system. Excellent post as per usual from IB. I think we (pigeon fanciers) often relate our birds to ourselves as in medication but remember these birds are athletes and how many fanciers can claim that title? As IB states he has diabetes and is on meds for same. Could you race a bird with diabetes? No. Could you race a bird with any condition that requires constant meds? No. The natural immune system is far superior to any "human" intervention with drugs, full stop. Yes drugs (properly administered) will give life forms a better quality if required but natural selection (or in pigeons and any other sport) human selection and therefore better constitution will prevail. The over use of drugs will in the end be detrimental to the sport. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
phillips Posted July 26, 2009 Report Share Posted July 26, 2009 the sample was checked by the pigeon heath people at uk animals products ltd, i guess it's a pretty basic test. the guy that i spoke to reccomended protril to solve it. however this is lactose based and whilst useful with para is likely to make problems much worse with e.coli. will be speaking to my vet asap to get some antibiotics. the couple of birds concerned are all old birds so i doubt ybs is involved, although i presume an ongoing virus could drop their immune systems making them more susceptible to bacterial infections none of them are vomiting. you will normally find that when birds are not well with ecoli infection they will drink water like its going out of fashion have a look in the birds mouth there are normaly signs of greyish colour at the back of throut all the birds are trying to do is flush out the problem so make sure you have elecrolytes and vits in the water and get them vet checked Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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