Good Bacteria(Probiotics)

[Skull Lofts]

Hi all

 

Is it possible to kill all the good bacteria in your birds?

If so, with what and how?

 

Skull

[ritchie1]

i use magic good stuff every day

[pearse1888]

why would you want to kill good bacteria ?

[ch pied]

mis- use of any broad spectrum anti-bio , will do that job , baytril or amoxicillian will do it quicker than any other .

[ritchie1]

no magic is not for killing good bac its for giving good bacterea

[Skull Lofts]

why would you want to kill good bacteria ?

 

I dont want to, i want to know if its possible

[Skull Lofts]

mis- use of any broad spectrum anti-bio , will do that job , baytril or amoxicillian will do it quicker than any other .

 

mis-use of any meds, its always said that the bad ones build up an immunity.

These bad ones must be the strong ones that survived the treatment with meds, right?

 

My point is then that there must certainly be good bacteria aswell that survives the meds treatment!

 

Skull

[dwh]

i use magic good stuff every day

 

great stuff we use it durig racing season

[ch pied]

 

mis-use of any meds, its always said that the bad ones build up an immunity.

These bad ones must be the strong ones that survived the treatment with meds, right?

 

My point is then that there must certainly be good bacteria aswell that survives the meds treatment!

 

Skull

there is a fine line to walk in regard's any med's , cross that line & your in deep doo-doo .

Anti-bio's work in two way's , gram + & gram - . Then we have the Big Gun's that work in both way's (ie) broad spectrum in their action ,

 

Gram + anti-bio's are of an invasive nature , attacking the bacteria from with-in .

 

Gram - anti-bio's from a cloke around the bacteria starveing it from nutrient's that it need to survive .

 

Broad spectrum , attack in both way's (ie) wipe out job

 

A sensevity test is best done by a vet , if you can find 1 who know's what their at . Then target the offending bacteria with the right anti-bio or anti-bacterial compound , like some of the Sulpha compound's that are doing a good job now day's , as they haven't been used for many year's . IMO

 

 

[Skull Lofts]

there is a fine line

 

A sensevity test is best done by a vet , if you can find 1 who know's what their at . Then target the offending bacteria with the right anti-bio or anti-bacterial compound ,

 

When the test was done and the meds given,

a. Would all the bad bacteria be gone?

b. Would all the good bacteria be gone aswell?

 

Skull

[Guest Owen]

As I understand it antibiotics like Baytril kill everything, bacteria wise, in the pigeon's body. I have never seen any evidence of this, it is just what I have read and been told. I am working on the idea of finding the truth of this, because so much of what we are lead to believe is rubbish. I have just completed a course of Amoxicilin for a Chest infection. The Docter did not mention probiotics or anything like it. So does that mean that I am vulerable to more illness because my imunity has been destroyed? And why is it that the Vets and the Docters are giving differant advice.

I do think that Pigeon Fanciers use medication when it is not needed, in case there is a problem or an infection. This is terrible practise. We would not take medicine in case we might be ill. At least I hope not. If the Docters are not recommending the use of probiotics, does this mean that they do not think it is of ant benefit?

I think that it is about time we hot to the bottom of this situation. What do you say?  

[Skull Lofts]

As I understand it antibiotics like Baytril kill everything, bacteria wise, in the pigeon's body. I have never seen any evidence of this, it is just what I have read and been told. I am working on the idea of finding the truth of this, because so much of what we are lead to believe is rubbish. I have just completed a course of Amoxicilin for a Chest infection. The Docter did not mention probiotics or anything like it. So does that mean that I am vulerable to more illness because my imunity has been destroyed? And why is it that the Vets and the Docters are giving differant advice.

I do think that Pigeon Fanciers use medication when it is not needed, in case there is a problem or an infection. This is terrible practise. We would not take medicine in case we might be ill. At least I hope not. If the Docters are not recommending the use of probiotics, does this mean that they do not think it is of ant benefit?

I think that it is about time we hot to the bottom of this situation. What do you say?  

 

This is exactly my view of the situation.

15years ago i didnt even know of Probiotics for humans, what to say for pigeons.

The birds flew then without it, why not now?

 

The use of meds imo must have made the good bacteria even stronger aswell.

[mac1]

i use magic good stuff every day

 

i have just put a topic about magic before i seen this do you rate it mate

[Roland]

Same as any thing used to kill the bad bacteria... or does one think that it can differeniate  :-/

[jimmy white]

as far as i understand, ,,, in the body of a pigeon [and humans] there is" good bugs" and "bad bugs" , they are continuasly fighting  each other,, when the" bad bugs" beat the" good bugs " the bird becomes ill,,,, treating with broad spectrum anti_biotics kills all the bugs,,,good and bad ,, then the bird must make up more good bugs [immunity bugs] off course it can make up more " bad bugs" at the same time,,,, but treating with a specific anti-biotic only  kills certain" specific bugs" , thats why a vet is recommended in asserting the proper anti biotic for the proper job,, ,,in my opinion many fanciers use,  or rather mis-use antibiotics by treating willy nilly,,, even the doctors nowadays are known to be using antibiotics far too much for simple ailments, and not allowing the immunity system "the good bugs" to fight simple ailments,

     if the immunity system "the good bugs" can beat an ailment "the bad bugs" themselves, the chances of this bird catching this ailment again are less  [obviously things are  more intricate than this , but this is roughly the gist of it,,,in my opinion

[Roland]

Own immunity. Simply put there Jimmy.

[dwh]

i've yet to know a vet to do a sensetivity test after initiai consultation why would they when its easier 4 them dispense a broad spectrum

they would do this after and if the 1st treatment does not cure the problem.

owen said himself his chest infection was treated byy use of amoxicillin. this was given  to me for achest infection as well a standard treatmentand was only given a sensitivity test after this faied to cure the prob

[jimmy white]

Own immunity. Simply put there Jimmy.

 

excactky that roly ;D ;D but you put it better than me ;D ;D

[Guest IB]

Back in 2004 I came across a Belgian study on 50 racing pigeons all from different lofts there. Basically the researchers were looking for resistance against a whole class of antibiotics amongst one group of 'friendly gut bacteria', Enterococcus columbae, which others have described as being the major gram-positive component of 'friendly bacteria'. Well they found antibiotic resistance in 29 out of those 50 pigeons. But 47 out of those same 50 pigeons also had at least one other strain of 'friendly gut bacteria' that were also resistant to the same class.

 

Streptococcus gallolyticus [maybe known as Strep bovis to you, that's its old name] had also been found with the same antibiotic class resistance, one half of the tested strains were resistant to this class of antibiotic.

 

Streptococcus gallolyticus causes disease & deaths in pigeons. The researchers wanted to find if there was a link, as both species of bacteria inhabit the pigeons gut, and they are able to transfer resistance genes. In other words an antibiotic-resistant friendly bacteria can exchange genes with a non-resistant strain of  Streptococcus gallolyticus and turn that strain into an antibiotic-resistant one. The difference now is that you have an antibiotic resistant strain of bacteria that can kill your birds in your birds gut, and you've maybe nothing to shift it with.

 

The researchers were also worried because humans and pigeons share the same strains of Streptococcus gallolyticus, and 'exchange of resistance genes or strains might occur between humans and pigeons'.

 

The researchers found 5 antibiotic-resistant strains of Streptococcus gallolyticus in two droppings samples that also had antibiotic resistant Enterococcus columbae strains in them.

 

All of this was part of an article I had published in the last issue of BHW in December 2004, in which I said that indiscriminate use of antibiotics in pigeons threatened the health of their owners and their famiies, and their friends.

 

It is a myth that antibiotics destroy all bacteria. There are more bacteria in your gut than there are cells in your body. Antibiotics only kill so many. Some always survive, these become resistant, they then multiply and replace the dead colony with a new antibiotic-resistant colony .. in hours.

  

 

[jimmy white]

yes ian a good posting,,but as you say in your last paragraph,, some of thes" bugs" as i call them, become resistent to anti-biotics,, but as fast as the bugs are becomming resistent to antibiotics,, they are comming out with new antibiotics to combat this ,,, a kind of vicious circle as it were,, but where does it stop,?  

[dwh]

IB is it true  salmonella can sometimes be mistaken 4 srtep?

[Guest cloudview]

its frightening logging on to this site sometimes , with amount of ilness there is talked about , and all the treatments required , it seems on a weekly basis to the novice , learner etc .

what i cant understand is the stret peckers survive and look bloody good on it ,

 

[dwh]

its frightening logging on to this site sometimes , with amount of ilness there is talked about , and all the treatments required , it seems on a weekly basis to the novice , learner etc .

what i cant understand is the stret peckers survive and look bloody good on it ,

 

can't fly clermont on macdonalds  ;D

[jimmy white]

its frightening logging on to this site sometimes , with amount of ilness there is talked about , and all the treatments required , it seems on a weekly basis to the novice , learner etc .

what i cant understand is the stret peckers survive and look bloody good on it ,

 

exactly that  ,, quite simply, the survival of the fittest,, nature ,, maybe we suould pay more attention to this

[ch pied]

IB is it true  salmonella can sometimes be mistaken 4 srtep?

correct . strep & e-coli can mimmick sam & ella .