Protein & Carb Supplements

[Guest CS]

Protein & Carb percentages in the feed that the birds receive at various stages, be it racing or breeding.

How effective would the Protein & Carb powders be to pigeons that are usually made for the bodybuilding industry?

 

 

Could/Should they be used as supplements?

 

 

[homebird]

Being new to pigeons and coming from a family of horsemen,i can only tell you of the way certain substances  work on horses.and given the differences in the way they digest and use food,i could be miles  away on how it works on pigeons.What i will tell you that once you start to unbalance the feed by adding this and that you start to dilute the normal properties that they would obtain from a tried and tested  feedmix worked out by nutritionalists.Such things as buffering, glycogen loading, pH balance,have all been used with some sucess if only minimal.It is a very interesting part of performance developement the use of food as energy,and how it may be changed for the good.But i think that the amonts of additives are boarderline as  to helping or detracting from performance.Most supliments usualy end up in the muck heap.and excess protien ends up causing horses to flush thier kidneys with an higher intake of water to get rid of it, thus resulting in an inbalance . All I can tell you ,that the best reasurch material has always come out of america, canada and australia,but with pigeons it may be mainland europe :-/

[willburdoo]

C.S i think that the likes of protien suplements wouldnt be no good for the birds, as homebird has already stated about the inbalence and how most of it would end up in the dung pile not to mention regular overloading with protien isnt good for the body , even in dogs that need  high protien diet can only cope with so much protien intake the rest is just flushed away and shat out   ;D  but there is a suplement that body builders use and i would use it in the birds to and that is creitein     i use multie vits once a fortnight but if you ask me all the birds need, is a good name brand feed!  the balance is there already you just need to have the right food for difrent stages !  as for carbs i think ok maybe you could use the body builders stuff but i will let you try it out first  ;D

[Wiley]

C.S i think that the likes of protien suplements wouldnt be no good for the birds, as homebird has already stated about the inbalence and how most of it would end up in the dung pile not to mention regular overloading with protien isnt good for the body , even in dogs that need  high protien diet can only cope with so much protien intake the rest is just flushed away and shat out   ;D  but there is a suplement that body builders use and i would use it in the birds to and that is creitein     i use multie vits once a fortnight but if you ask me all the birds need, is a good name brand feed!  the balance is there already you just need to have the right food for difrent stages !  as for carbs i think ok maybe you could use the body builders stuff but i will let you try it out first  ;D

 

just wondering why you would use creatine, as personally used to use it on myself when i took my boxing serious, and found it used to retain water, and was only effective right before you done the exercise, or the lifting. I found it pointless using it after a while once i found out creatine is a natural product that is produced by the body, and is a last source of energy. I found it did allow me to push alot more weight, but was basically an instant thing that you had to take before and after exercise.  So giving it to pigeons you would have to give it to them just before the release in the basket to make it have any real affect, i would have thought, and considering there system works alot quicker then ours. Just interest why you'd use creatine or have you in the past?

[THE FIFER]

creatine is like gluecose its an instant energy booster.

[Guest TAMMY_1]

creatine is like gluecose its an instant energy booster.

 

Well it would be no use if birds were in the basket overnight or longer if it is an instant fix.

[willburdoo]

here try this link       http://www.vydex.co.uk/animal/racing_plan.html

[WulDon]

Being a competitive bodybuilder i can tell you the use of creatine can only be over say a 8-10 week period to gain maximum effects... initially you load up with the supplement over a ten day period then onto a maintenace dose the remainder of the course, you know when you are using and the effects are clearly obvious when lifting in the gym... as for water retention never suffered to much from this myself.

 

Protein in any from of althlete wether it be a human, horse or pigeon has to be fed into the the muscle through calculated measures... ye any excess will be flushed down the bog or on the dung heap, needed though for repair and growth.

 

Carbs however is the more trickier part, used a the fuel required when the muscles are put to strenious excercise or exertion, two much carbs causes an over spill which will more than often be stored as fat, too little then the body will start to break down muscle tissue and convert for energy... like is say a bit more trickier.

 

Carb loading is a system body builders use prior to an onstage competition to full up the muscle, tighten the skin and give that full pumped look with vascularity like a road map... usually carried out after a period of carb depleting to loss fat and gain condition.

 

Carbing pigeons up i feel would be good for short to middle distance racing, where a quick short burst of energy sustained over the shorter distances is required.

 

An excellent product used by bodybuilders is vitargo (barley starch) whioch is absorbed into the muscles 70% faster than other commonly used carbs like maltodextrin, dextrose etc., not seen it in pigeon form yet.

 

www.vitargo.co.uk

[Guest]

I've seen creatine & arginine advertised as added to some pigeon supplements, but never gave it much attention as I thought these were amino acids, which are naturally broken down from proteins. Thought much the same about dmg, which is a natural intermediate stage of protein breakdown, reason I mention it is one of the links suggests it was Russians who discovered creatine in 1960's, and they are credited with dmg discovery too, Vit B15, which is also credited as reason for boosting Russian athletics results in the 1960's.

 

Other bit I noticed in the links, it always said 'may enhance performance' and never 'will enhance performance' so maybe its all old hat now given folks are generally healthier now than they were in the 1950s/60's ?

[Roland]

Protien not needed isn't neccesarily passed through and into dung. The worse poison one gets, beit us  and especially pigeons id blood poisoning fron toxic waste through too much protien. This will knock your birds sideways big time and is one hell of a thing to shift, as I often harp on about.

Believe you me, it is something you just don't want, let alone need... and the symtoms, and effects are usually put down to anything else but Toxin poisoning.

[Merlin]

Good post Roland,fanciers should listen the old maxim should always apply when dealing with our pigeons,everything in moderation,except their skin which should always be pink/ish and likewise with their throats.

[sammy]

Protien not needed isn't neccesarily passed through and into dung. The worse poison one gets, beit us  and especially pigeons id blood poisoning fron toxic waste through too much protien. This will knock your birds sideways big time and is one hell of a thing to shift, as I often harp on about.

Believe you me, it is something you just don't want, let alone need... and the symtoms, and effects are usually put down to anything else but Toxin poisoning.

  remember being told roland that pigeons pass most of the protein out in their dung well the stuff that the body has no use for ,and thats why its been siad that rats can live on opigeon dung as it contains that much protein  

[Roland]

But Sammy, we don't need to worry about what passes through ... much more  importantly what doesn't and what gets into the system, especially he Blood system. Toxins!

[jimmy white]

my thoughts on this are proteins and carboheydrates are both essential to pigeons ,, all depends on their work load  i doubt if you would win a 600 mile race feeding just maize, at the same time you wouldnt win a 60 mile race feeding just peanuts, so its all about balance and the right type of feeding for the race in question  

[jimmy white]

plus protein is needed for the growing yb and to the adults feeding the growing ybs, the pigeons will tell you this themselves by throwing the maize aside and eating the peas etc [the proteins] they know what to eat naturaly when needed , but what is not natural is sending pigeons long distances , they dont know their going to be sent , so we have to feed them for that