you have to go back awhile when they flew in same club they never once beat john tray for the club averages when trays moved to tindale in 1968 along with john lynas & john knighton was when the kavanagh's came to the fore in point of fact during the 70's they actually bought pigeons from john tray something dougie kavanagh will verify. i'm not saying they did'nt have good pigeons or they were not good flyers because they did& were. not many men talk of the trays and lynas' in the samebreath as kavanagh but these two men were the tops.tray often giving away quality pigeons rather than sell them.and his son tom is every bit as good topping the wda more times than most fanciers dream of