thanks for reply,i thought at first it was young bird sickness ,but symptoms did not work out.so i put it down to the canker treatment.inow have them on apple cider vinegar in their water,they are not being sick at this moment.plus their on a light diet.they were on their 8th training toss when it happened,maybe stress always seem to happen when things are going well.winning 1st and 2nd last old bird race from bonn in germany 460 miles.its all sent to try us.thanks viv, tori. no. nail.