MsPigeon

Our whole club has Unikon too and I have been race sec since we started with them. It sounds to me like the club system was not set to the correct time. As each module is placed in the club clock at shipping they are all set to the time of the club clock.

I would be worried too Pete... Have you used the durimitex soaked nest felts before? I've never used durimitex myself, but I would suspect that maybe it's just too much for the babies. Do the dead babys have food in their crops? Or do they have poopy butts? Do you use lights in the loft at night? If it were the mites they would be bothering your breeders too. I think I would sneak out and check them at night to see if the breeders are covering the squabs or if they are fidgeting around possibly disturbed by mites. Do you see signs of mice? Hope you get to the bottom of it Carol

They are nice eyes, But if your using Jack Barkels method you would never pair two white eyes together. You should put a white eye with a yellow. I like the cocks eye best myself. Carol

Hi IB, I think I would do the same, some how I don't think I could wait till after breeding just knowing those creepy crawly worms were in them. :-/ I think I would have chossen some kind of individual treatment though. I just like to know for sure that each and every one gets the full dose. It only takes one to get the whole thing started again. Carol

There is an article in the Feb "Racing Pigeon Digest" on the benefits f useing chlorine in your pigeons water. Carol

If you go to the AU web site http://www.pigeon.org/ and click on the link "find a club near you" they will locate one for you. Carol

"The Flying Vet's Pigeon Health Management" by Dr Collin Walker and "A Veterinary Approach to Pigeon Health" by Dr David Marx These are a couple of my favorite and most read and used books, but I haven't looked at the new books on the market for a couple years, there is mostly more or better ones. The most important thing for a beginner to remember is without health you have nothing. Yours in the sport. Carol

What I have read on garlic also states that heat detroys the benefits in garlic. It also said that the smaller you chop it the more of the goodiies of garlic are released and made useable. I use fresh garlic because I grow it and I just break the cloves into pieces, I'm not fussy about the skins either. If I can't smell garlic when I freshen the water I break it again and just keep useing it till the smell is gone. I have found that my birds like the garlic water, even with a choice of plain or garlic water. Lennut Tar's way sounds nice and easy. I think if I didn't have my own garlic I might look into the jarred kind and how processed it is. But as IB pointed out it loses the goodies quickly so whats the point of giving it if it doesn't have the good stuff in it? I'm sure it's not just because the garlic flavor or smell helps the birds any. Interesting thoughts. Thanks for the info all. Carol

Hi Javier, There are lots of flyers in Florida, not sure how close they are to you though. If you join the AU (American Racing Pigeon Union) they have a "Help a Beginner" program. Check out their site http://www.pigeon.org/index.html you can find a club near you or just call the AU, they are very helpful and friendly. Yours in the sport. Carol

I agree very well said spin cycle. It seems like the same hand full of people do ALL the work year after year in pigeon clubs. This is a busy time of year for family and clubs. For family the holidays and it is for some the pigeon breeding season and for clubs there is new year paper work and printing diplomas and ordering trophies and awards banquets etc. I say patience is a vitue and good things come to those who wait. And I think any club would welcome new members pigeons or not. Seems to me that a member without pigeons could help out a lot while learning. Yours in the sport. Carol

bewted, what is polyneuritis? and what is POLYVENE? I guess you have to know your birds, for some it is just pigmentation but for others that don't normally have the blue tip it may be a symptom. But I have never heard of polyneutitis. The only thing I read about the blue tip, in Colin Walkers book, was that if it were a symptom and not normal pigmentation for a bird, it could be a circulation problem, possibly due to some respritory condition. I have a few grizzels that just have a blue tipped tongue normally. Thanks Carol

Thanks Chrissy, I think thats a good idea. After my racers are done with this round I will leave some of the better parents together to foster the Frillback eggs. Thanks Carol

Most often blue tongue is just the pigmentation of that particular bird. Just like some have dark legs. It's common in grizzels, but any color bird can have it. Carol

I'm sure it's probably too late now, but I would suggest in the future to look to the birds for more symtoms so as to confirm diagnosis. Open their mouth and smell, and check for any growth of white or yellow in throat. Also seperate and check their droppings. If you don't have a microscope you can still tell a lot by the way the droppings look. Yours in the sport. Carol

Don't forget to clean the loft as well. Mites like to hide in those nooks and crannys that collect feathers and don't get cleaned regular. You will need to clean and then spray those areas. I like to torch but that is a fire hazard and not possible in some lofts. Carol

Well I purchased two beautiful pair of blue grz. Frillbacks from a breeder in California. She shows and does quite well. She mailed the birds to me and I have had them for a month or so. They are in the breeding loft that has lights on timers. My race birds are on their second round but the frillback pairs have each layed a single egg. One pair is setting it still and the other pair left it. So my question is, is this normal for frillbacks or do you think it's the change of climate? Or the light system? I'm noy giving up on them yet but just wondered if they are hard to breed and rear? Thanks Carol

Gosh! I didn't know ANYONE needed to be defended from my opinion! I thought this was a discussion, not a right or wrong or only one-way works. I agree with Chrissy in that a well thought out health program is necessary these days to compete with the same birds the whole season race after race and to combat loses. It’s just my opinion… That can be herbal or what ever but my program includes meds. I have found from my experience and the use of my microscope and lots of reading that my program requires meds. Also from my experience in our club/combine/ concourse, I know the flyers that insist that meds are not necessary are the ones that lose 90% of their team, sometimes in one race. And the flyers at the top of the sheet week after week, flying the same birds, have a health program that includes meds. These are veteran flyers with many years of experience but they just stick to their old ways and methods, which do not include meds. We all know that nothing stays the same, the advances in technology clearly is an area that we bulk at change, for example E clocks, and computers. My health program for me, my pigeons, for my area, for my loft style, for my handleing and training methods require meds. For instance worming, some flyers never worm, they say their pigeons do not have them. But mine do, my microscope proves it as well as the worms they pass after worming. Maybe it’s because my lofts have sand floors or because my pigeons are allowed time out doors and often land a pick. I clean regular and torch the sand to disinfect. But I pretty much know from observation and subtle symptoms, even without the microscope, when they need worming and it's pretty much on a schedule. Also we all know that cocci and canker are always present. When the stress of rearing and racing is added my birds show subtle signs, which affects their form and racing. I try to head things off with pro-biotics, supplements, garlic and herbs, but it seems at a pretty regular interval they need some help to knock the cocci and canker back down to a healthy level. So I have fit these treatments into a schedule based on my experience with my birds. Respiratory treatments are a relatively new addition to my health program. It came into my loft one year with YB's from another flyer and it too rears up on occasion when birds are under stress and shows subtle symptoms which I also ward off with meds. I always switch meds from one year to the next to hopefully keep resistance from developing. I agree, it is NOT cheap, but what hobby or pet is cheap. I also do not have a bird vet anywhere near so I do the best I can with my microscope and books and LOTS of observation, watching their droppings and their behavior. So my health program includes worming and treating for cocci, canker, and resp. before breeding season and before racing season. YB’s are wormed when moved to YB loft and watched very closely, if I see signs of adeno virus (YB sickness) then they will get medicated w/5 in 1 to ward off secondary infections, bleach, in their water, and then probiotics. If they show signs of resp. and it’s just a bird or two they are separated, if it’s 10 or more they are all treated. Normally they get probiotics w/vitamins twice a week, and vitamin/mineral supplement twice a week, these are added to their feed coated with wheat germ oil. They have fresh garlic in water always. During the race season they get 2-3 days of meds starting day after return from race, then probiotics and then vit/min supplements before going to the next race. One year I use 5 in 1 as the meds and the off year I use individual treatments with different active ingredients from the 5 in 1, for cocci, canker, and resp. One week they will be treated for cocci, the next canker, the next resp., and the next worming (w/Ivomec). So…there ya have… That’s my story and I’m sticking to it… Carol

I say all of the above and more. Even though I don't know what they all are for sure, like foot theory? But they are all just tools and I use all available info from my records and from observation and some of these theories to make the best decisions I can for breeding and racing. Carol

As many of you, I would still jump in with both feet and race the YB's hard. But if I were starting fresh I would sure make use of one of the pigeon programs for the computer. It is just too mind bogleing to think of trying to put all the info in now, I've tryed and never get it all in and then another years gone by. Carol

To each their own Roland...

Good Point! :-/

By leaving them on back yard fancier, after laying and hatching, the parents have more hours of daylight to feed them. Just my 2 cents. Carol

I hear ya Paul, and I agree completly with you and Chrissy. But may as well save your breath... Not only would I like to hear what they do to combat, canker, cocci, and respitatory, but do they race their birds the whole season and do they have birds that go to every race and clock every race? Carol :-/

Wow, thats a loaded question! There are as many systems as there is flyers. I suggest that you read and ask lots of questions and develop your own, what works for you and your birds. If it doesn't work then figure out why and change it. But make a plan and stick to it. But in general, I raise young early on lights, first round is almost ready to wean now, move young to natural light loft, they molt, and then race them natural, leaving c's and h's together. I never let them raise babies but I do let them mate up and replace with dummy eggs. I worm them with Ivomec and spray them for lice as they go into the YB loft. I trap train them and put them in crates and teach them to drink in crtaes. I start very short, with in site of the loft, when starting road training them and train out to at least 60 miles, training down the road twice a week. I use preventitive treatment before hard training starts and preventitive treat durring the race season and worm as needed if I see worm eggs under the microscope. Thats it in a nut shell. But read and listen to what others do and incorporate what you like to make your own system. Yours in the sport. Carol

Hi Bewted, I'm good thanks. Feeling lazy and staying in out of the cold. Thus sitting here and catching up on the forum. How about you? Carol