johnnyksspeedshop

Hi Andy, I am a novice to racing, but not to pigeons. I've been raising them my whole life, just never competitively raced them, and it seems to a be a whole different ball park. You are all much better resources than me. I did however go to school for 4 years for Clinical Laboratory Science and have macroscopically viewed, cultured and tested drugs on many organisms. Some pathogens are true pathogens and are always considered harmful and need to be eradicated, while other pathogens are normal flora when the immune system is good and conditions are normal, but upon change/stress become the predominant organism and thats when they are dangerous. Most often this happens to somebody who already has a compromised immune system, like somebody on drugs that suppress their immune system, or a very young or very old hospitalized patient. I know everything cant relate to pigeons, but most of it actually works the same way. In fact, the "B" in our "B-cells" derive from the word "bursa" which are part of a birds immune system, and have memory for the vaccine, hence cause a quicker immune response. Hey Paul, nice to hear your medication process. That 5% may indeed cause more resistant strains if it is not totally wiping out the pathogens. Doctors often use more than one drug because it often kills the whole pathogen population and people may be sensitive to higher dosages.

Over medication is due to the fancier, but we also see it in the human setting administered by those who should know better, like doctors, so its hard to say a fancier wont do it when a doctor will. I mean, look at all the superbugs we created from not medicating correctly Vancomycin Resistant Enterococcus, Methicillin Resistant Staphylococcus Aureus, Extend Spectrum Betalactamase producers, etc. Now most of us "carry" S. aureus on the skin, but it is most often a problem in nosocomial infections due to the patients poor immune system. The problems are not exactly down to only the bacterias presence, but your bodys ability to fight it off. The immune system! In fact, thats all a vaccine does, is pass a pathogen recognition pattern to the hosts immune system. That being said, I plan to vaccinate for PMV and paratyphoid, because they are a preventative measure. In my opinion, antibiotics should never be used as a preventative measure, and can cause more harm than good my wiping out normal flora which help prevent the growth of pathogens.

Its also interesting to see this in light of feral pigeons. Feral pigeons are stressed everyday by environmental factors, predators,and access to food/water. If 1/4 of the racing pigeons carry salmonella carriers before the races, and 3/4 after then I wonder the percent carriers in a feral population and how often they survive. Also, according to that figure, does this mean that 3/4 of racing pigeons were not vaccinated for salmonella?

I agree. This will be my first year competitively racing, but flew tipplers for a long time. I never medicated my tipplers, and they were always in top shape. Medication can often kill off the good bacteria in the gut, and thats what scares me most, because thats when bacteria that may be considered normal flora in proper amounts can really take over and become the predominant organism and cause disease. Hence, antibiotics should be used very carefully, otherwise at wrong dosages these organisms build resistance and become much more dangerous. The big difference is, however, in tipplers your flying against other lofts and your birds are never mixed, unlike racing, where your birds are all in the same basket. So, I have to come to a conclusion on how I will precede with medications as well. I think I may vaccinate for PMV, but most bacterial problems seem to be the cause of a bad immune system to begin with, possibly due to over medication.

Thanks John! I'm hoping they excel as sprinters. The Jansen cock pictured got 7th vs 1170 birds at 150 miles. On my budget, im very happy to have him and cant wait to breed him and see what he produces.

Thank you John, I hope so. Both of these blues are cocks. The back left is a Leen Boer and the front is a Janssen. I have some nice blue hens to pair them with

Thanks for all the replies guys, it helps alot! I decided not to release them at the 80 mile mark, because one of the two never came from the 22 mile mark. Redcheq, it was 17 F degrees this morning, brrrrrr. Owen, thanks for explaining your training system to me! Redcheq, i've never heard of loft flying them first, I will have to try that! And my small loft and number of birds does present a problem, but hopefully I will prevail. Here is a pic of the pigeons I will be working with of good blood, hopefully they will be a little better than the other cheap ones I bought. The grizzle hen in the back right is the one that came from 22 miles.

Geo, im not looking to race these birds, but there is no point in having homers that dont home to me. I also want to get some birds trained in correctly, so that when my young from the birds I do want to race are ready for training, I can toss some birds that know the way with them. Mushroom, nice method. I just let them free fly hungry, then call them down and they come straight in!

Its interesting to see everyones training distances, thanks Tooshy Boy!

Yeah, something isnt going right. I will try the same release point again!

Just a little update, did a 22 mile toss with these 2 birds today. The ten mile mark is right on the Mississipi River, so by the time I crossed it I just decided to take them to the 20 mark. Released them at 11am and one came at 4pm. We will see if the other one comes tomorrow. When I released them at the 7 mile mark, the just kept circling. At the 22 mile mark they only circled a few times then broke in the correct direction so I got excited and thought they might be home by the time I got there, but they werent.

Thanks for your input Geo, i've been hearing that alot! I might bump it up to 15 miles as well!

Thanks Andy! I will keep you updated!

Thanks for the info Andy! I have been flying them everyday around the loft for the past few months. And I do feed them at regular times, they are very hungry by the time I feed them and respond quickly to my whistle.

Good to hear my birds arent "unusual" Next saturday I am attending a pigeon show 80 miles away and why I started training them is I wanted to release them from that point. I dont have any old birds, so will it be stupid of me to bring these two 80 miles out next Saturday? Are they more likely to head straight home from a greater distance? Technically, I dont know what strain they are, their pedigree, their breeder, etc. so I would like to test them before keeping them and become a better trainer, but I dont want to do anything too stupid where they for sure wont make it back. Thanks for your help!

Thanks for the info! The birds stayed out overnight however from the 7 mile toss yesterday, and came back today, isnt that unusual? I would think that they should be back before dark when I let them out at 11 am.

Hello all, im trying to figure out where im going wrong. I've been loft flying two homers for a few months, and decided it was time to do some training tosses. First toss, I went a bit more than a mile away, and it took these two birds about an hour to get home, I think they just kept circling home. Then yesterday, I took them 7 miles away, and they came home separately the next day (today) at 11am and 4pm. This arent from my breeders whose young I plan on competing with next fall, but still these cheap homers which i bought just to practice training should be able to return from 7 miles, so I figure im doing something wrong. I used to have homers when younger, and I never remember having this problem, but I never really released them too close. I have heard before that releasing them under 20 miles away can cause them to get a little confused and cant get their bearings straight, is there any truth to that, or should I release these two birds from the same 7 mile spot?

Thanks, I hope so also!

Good news, the gurgling sound seemed to go away on its own. This parents werent the best parents on the last set of young, and stopped feeding them, so I guess I'm just not going to breed this pair anymore.

I've watched every one of their vids Geo, definitely some good information there, and a number of different systems and methods used!

Thanks for the info Owen, I agree that ventilation is very important to the pigeons health. But simply put, holes let air through. I have been in the hobby since I was a child, and have always raised endurance birds (tipplers) and am now interested in racing, and I have studied loft designs as well (like most fanciers). In one of my books, William Pensom described drilling holes in the proper places for good ventilation. Now just because drilling holes does not cost an arm and a leg, does not mean its not functional. Here is an interesting situation to check out, I can say with confidence that my loft is better ventilated than these top flyers: Workhouse Lofts

Thanks for all the info guys and gals! I made some ventilation adjustments today by drilling a large number of holes in the back of the loft closer to the floor, it should help out a bit, but the other two squeekers which dont have any symptoms were in nest boxes closer to the floor then the young with problems, so im not sure it will make too much of a difference . . .definitely worth a try though. The young are still being fed by their parents and just starting to venture out of the nest box. They are starting to pick at seeds by themselves, and when they do this, I notice they gurgle more, as if water is coming up through their crop, so Oldyellow, you may be on to something! Also, I see nothing in the throat, but I know you dont always have to see it, for canker to be present! Thanks, Johnny K

Hey all, I wasnt allowed to post my question in the respiratory sticky, but im looking for some advice and possibly for a product I can attain in the US. A couple of my young squeekers seem to have a respiratory problem, as you can hear a gurgling sound when they breathe. They appear very healthy in shape and form. The young who make the gurgling sounds are nestmates, and I have another set of nestmates from different parents that are the exact same age that do not show any symptoms. Any ideas?

Thanks for the advice guys!

Thanks for the tips guys! I use apple cider vinegar everyday in their drinking water, but havent tried it in their bath water yet.