Diamond dave

As thier eyes are on the side of the head - do you think when they are looking straight at you that they might see two of you.........?

Try standing in your garden looking one way and take into account what is in your field of vision. Then turn through 180 degrees and do the same. Put both of them together and I imagine thats what a pigeon can see. To be honest I think that would pickle my brain.

After reading a post on eyesign, I asked myself How and what do the birds see. Has anyone else considered this.........?

Hi Jimmy - how are you mate - what is monobloc mate - is it th grey blocks used in building? D.D.

Cloudview - how can you tell whiich are which so early in the nest.............?

Does cocci and worms survive in droppings if they are frozen?

"The last number in the bird number is also my pair number So all that end with a "3" will be off my number 3 pair and will also be bro-sis's" - Thats a great idea Don. Today I thought what a good idea it would be if you could ring the cocks with even numbers and hens with odd numbers - if only you could tell that early in the nest.........

What do others have as a floor in an uncovered aviary.......?

"i ordered 40 rings and 1st one is NEHU 2010 HET 1 ................. no 1 is it a omen lol " - Now that is special!!!!!! Presumably you must have 007 as well........?

Ha- ha - I have just found myself allocating special ring numbers to youngsters from my best stock pair (222) - does this mean I have favourites before they've even hatched? Does anyone else do that.........? D.D

Debbie, dont think that rats would have taken the youngsters cos I think they enter the loft for the water. But they would certainly put the birds off. I dont think it would have been draughts either because the birds wouldn't have gone down there in the first place if it was that bad. I've got one of my pairs nested on the floor and have hatched ok. Is it the yearlings that are on the floor? I've had experienced birds on the nest that have protected there young on the nest from rats and the box looked like a blood bath in the morning. The hen was ripped to peices but she was still sat her youngsters in the morning. However, I would expect inexperienced parents to leave the eggs and as it is so cold they wouldn't last long. So, I would suggest that it could be a combination of the 2. Rats and cold. Good luck with your trapping. D.D.

Thankyou to everyone for your posts - so many people willing to offer the benefit of their experience and to help novices and beginners alike - I would never have made sense of this subject in a million years without your contributions - GREAT PEOPLE - GREAT SITE !!!!!!! D.D.

To Leighton - Thanks for that mate. That was a massive contribution. I am still keen to know about the "ring" around the neck - is it in the feather or in the skin?

Leighton - very interesting - is this correct ? - Where is this gland. Wouldn't the area around the gland be constantly greasy? Where is the ring around the neck. Is the bloom that is left on top of the bath dead skin.......? D.D.

Hi Old Yellow - your comments regarding the bloom and the bath are very interesting. I have often looked at the bath water after the birds have bathed and noticed the white bloom on the top of the bath is exceptionally water repellant, to a point where I have oftened wondered if it could be used perhaps scientifically as a bi-product. It almost takes the form of silicones. For this reason, I would respectfully challenge your comments by suggesting that the bath may take the "waterproofing" off the pigeons and if you have anything in the bath water then you could be inducing the "false" condition and taking away the natural condition......... D.D.

Sorry Don - didn't mean to cause you any embarresment but very grateful for your advice - as from everyone contributing to this thread. The debate now seems to be taking 4 angles - 1). Those that think the silky feathering is inherent in the strain........... 2). Those that think it can be fed into the pigeons ......... 3). Those that think it is applied (through the bath or sprayed on)......... 4). Those that think it is induced by form.......... Many of the fancirs that have commented on this thread are top fliers and some have different opinions - for Novices and beginners this now becomes a little confusing. Is this condition now a Myth or should we be striving to use all of these methods prior to basketing our birds.......?

From the last couple of posts (if I am reading them correctly) it seems that there is nothing that you can feed or give the birds that will contribute towards the feather condition. So it is looking like the stuff out of the bottle is winning this debate. Perhaps we will soon see Mr. Sheen for sale in the fancy press........ To Don - would you share your extensive knowledge with us and tell us how to get the birds "as slick as a watermelon seed" - Is it induced naturally or is it applied? To PJC and Tony when you refer to the "sack" type feathering are you stating this in a detrimental way or do you have birds in your loft that have won with this type of feather?

Hi Tony, are you saying that it is inherent to certain strains and it is not induced by form? D.D.

Thats precisely my point. I have just read John Clements new book "Long Distance Pigeon Racing" (xmas prezzie) - He interviews several top european aces and a common criteria of all of them when selecting a pigeon is Silky feathering. I am sure that these fanciers can tell the difference but how can a novice or beginner tell the diffence between the real thing and the hair conditioner......? D.D.

Thats precisely my point. I have just read John Clements new book "Long Distance Pigeon Racing" (xmas prezzie) - He interviews several top european aces and a common criteria of all of them when selecting a pigeon is Silky feathering. I am sure that these fanciers can tell the difference but how can a novice or beginner tell the diffence between the real thing and the hair conditioner......? D.D.

To try to make my point, I would compare it to hair conditioner. - it will make your hair shinier but you could still have the flu or diarohea or something - it doesnt make you any healthier just because you have shiny hair............ D.D.

NWN - We all know that pigeons with form and vitality have naturally silky feathering but I have noticed on basketing nights excessive, unnatural silky, slick feathering and I was wondering if this could be induced. In which case are some fanciers perhaps kidding themselves by getting it from a 'bottle' and if this is the case, - does it work..........? D.D.

Handling some of the birds on basketing night, I noticed that a lot of the birds were so silky and slick that they could slide out of your hands - It obviously wasn't "natural" and I noticed that these birds weren't among the winners - Is it something in the bath or can you spray the birds with WD 40 or something. :

I know that good form promotes silky feathering but what do fanciers give to their birds to contribute to this condition? D.D.

I use plastic nest bowls with nest felts super glued (3 spots). A couple of handfuls of long cut barley straw put in a plastic bag and a couple of squirts of duramitex and well shaken then thrown in the loft. When they,ve used it all I throw in some more. I dont disturb the birds until the youngsters are about 12 days old. D.D