Roland

Me

Beanz, Sory to disagree with you, but I'd rather the hen not get beat up or 'Sorted' at all if possible. The agression is a lot less when a Cock bird is introduced to the Hens and HER nest... Likewise Ferrets, alot more peacefull night lol.

That old potato has raised it's head for a spell now. But you still get a Certificate of Origin... Same as a pedigree of so called Strain in reality I guess, or even more so. Basically saves a wage or two in recording and writing 1000's out I guess. Me personally believe that pedigrees are only as good as the man is honest that writes them.... and very soon 'In good Faith' is just that, regardless. Know a very famous fancier /Seller of a strain, that will admit that the original birds that produced the 'Performances' weren't actually of the strain sold... his later performances were though apparently ... and he will ell you that! Obviously a house hold name now. Paper doesn't fly, never has and only the Blow home paper bag days could on be produced... but then again be hard clocking it in lol. Busseart was about as honest as you will ever get. And nigh ALL strains owe their success to the out cross... from often another loft of course.

A couple in our club just bought them as latebreds... both take all the beating. I bought a couple of so called sprint birds to make up my mates numbers... 6 years on, still flying the Distance, and are as good as any! Many have top flyer has purchased g/ children and double G Children and few out their skins. Even at National and international level. In reality are as good as I guess. Fairer than most Feather Mechants, and obviously the more sold, the higher the % of culls... or bad management! Louis stated that 'Though breeding from the best can't guarantee winners ... it increases the chances'.

Birdage up

Am trying for the 'Paper's'. But above all we need a P.R. firm. Use to be 'More buisness done at Roadside cafes and Vicar's tea parties... same now... but times pass on ... P.R. firm. Not met many, if any that doesn't think that a P.R. firm is wanted and a god idea... just puzzled why we don't have one... for the last 10 years for instance.

Sorry I posted this onother topic... It is the same as when birds let out 10 minutes and 10 miles apart, funny how they come together ... But when the Hens are let up 10 minutes before and then the Cocks birds 10 miles behind, and the Cock birds beat the hens home and Don't bother to wait for the Hens... they are race fit... and when the hens catch up, and over take the cock birds, they are sent and cocks rested... hence the first 2/3rds of the season is accounted for...

Yes remember well that Pierre Dordin did much research. If a glass top is used on a Basket and left for 10 minutes they of course head straight of with hardly a half term. I always felt that this wasdue to them doing what ever it is they do and need, as they can see the light etc. Whereas they normally are out, and then they have to fly... can't see them feasiblely walking out and studying the sky for 10 minutes... but that, or whatever they study is no doubt what they do... Like as high as you can to leberate the birds! One would think that they would zoom straight ahead... But no, if let of the top of a multi Story Carpark for instance... Block of flats, they drop like the clappers and nigh hit the ground. I'm not sure about this 'Rock Dove' or where it came from... never ever read about where it was supposed to have or when. The flyer from Tammworth way, who was a Boxing trainer, for he's son was quite good, used to tell me that he kept re - introducing them... so that all his birds were 1/8 Rock Dove.... Believe his brother was Elvis lol.

Been a few years back now that Cortisone was used prevalently. The Begiums had to clean their at up big time because A. their name was beginnng to stick... and they were finding increasingly more difficult to sell. Had way over a 100 names scouged by the Aurthorities... but they were never prosecuted... just made many clean their act up. Cortisone mostly preserves the Condition the bird is in at the time of use. Now too many just buy the rings and sell as 'Directs' Seen some big names on that list too.... Believe that that will hit the fans soon, /// after they have packed it up like.

Another interesting thought from Gordon .... This past week on two different nights, Global news showed state and federal officials in Alaska capturing wild ducks to test for H5N1 virus - I believe they said they were going to try to get 20,000 samples. So far I haven't seen reports of infections yet, but I'm sure they're coming. However my point in posting the update was to give fanciers info to show that this hot strain can infect pigeons but that experimental birds didn't shed virus - which is an important point to argue if pigeons are targeted as a cause of the spread of this agent. I wish that the people who did the work I reported on had done one more experiment - expose a group of normal healthy pigeons to infected chickens to see if the kind of exposure that pigeons could have in a natural outbreak would also infect them. Often in experiments, massive doses of virus are given to experimental birds - really unnnatural exposure, far more than they might encounter in a natural exposure. So I think this would be an important part of of this study, and I contacted the author to ask if he might do that yet (since he is doing more work on the shedding angle). Gord.

I have also looked into that in the past and not been able to correlate good or bad tosses with particular K factor or sunspot activity. What I find interesting, though, is that fanciers in some areas have had terrible returns this year while fanciers in other areas have had very good returns. I do not think that we can argue that all fanciers with heavy losses just did not have their pigeons in good condition. We do not know exactly how these birds find home and they may depend for this on some local variable that we do not even consider, perhaps not even know.

Moths or Mice... more likey mice...

Me

Birds of a feather `flock together' -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Oxford zoologists have discovered some interesting facts about homing pigeons which may ruffle a few feathers in the fiercely competitive racing fraternity. It seems that far from competing to get home first, pigeons flock together to pool their navigational knowledge and ward off predators. Dr Tim Guilford and postgraduate student Ms Teresa Burt, both based at the Department of Zoology, have carried out research to determine how pigeons find their bearings when released. Using transparent and opaque pigeon carriers, they demonstrated that birds with the most visual awareness of their whereabouts before release flew home faster. Pigeons kept in opaque boxes circled around for 20 or 30 seconds before setting off. They also discovered that pigeons helped each other to find the way home. When the birds were released in pairs, one from a transparent box and the other from an opaque box, they circled the area before flying off together. The confused pigeon flew after the one that seemed to know where it was going, while the other bird slowed down to let it catch up. Dr Guilford said: `How one bird can sense that the other knows the way back is a mystery. Why the clued-up pigeon should wait for the other is also unclear, but I doubt it is for altruistic reasons.' He believes that pigeons prefer to travel in pairs or flocks to pool their knowledge about the route and to protect themselves from predators such as falcons. Previous research suggests that pigeons navigate using an in-built magnetic and solar compass and clues from familiar scents on the wind, switching to orientation by familiar landmarks in the final stretch. These new observations may help to explain another characteristic of pigeons—that they will do almost anything to stay in a flock

NRCC wouldn't be a great distance... but would be a great challenge from that side.

A smell one Hans G. Wallraff1 and Michael F. Neumann1 (1) Max-Planck-Institut für Verhaltensphysiologie, D-8130 Seewiesen Post Starnberg, Federal Republic of Germany Received: 16 February 1989 Accepted: 21 May 1989 Summary By means of training flights (mostly flock releases), two groups of young homing pigeons were made familar with a larger area asymmetrically extending from the loft toward SW and NE, respectively. Thereafter, birds of both groups were released within each of the training areas with which one sort of birds was familiar (F+), the other unfamiliar (F-). Even the F+ pigeons had never been released at the test site itself (nearest previous release 10 km apart). Half of each group was allowed to smell environmental odors (O+); the other half breathed charcoal-filtered air during transportation and at the release site until a few minutes before release when they were deprived of olfaction by intranasal application of Xylocain (O-). The two test sites were 53 km distant from home. There was little difference in initial orientation as well as in homing performance between pigeons that were allowed to smell natural air and were familiar with the area (F+O+) and those that were privileged in only one respect (F+O- and F-O+). Yet if none of the preconditions was met (F-O-), performances were drastically reduced. The findings show that pigeons make use of two independent homing methods, olfactory navigation (presumably based on a navigational map) and non-olfactory pilotage (presumably based on a topographical map). The latter method is restricted to a more or less familiar area determined by individual experience. Its boundaries are poorly defined and can be estimated by the experimenter only in rough approximation. Within this area, the homing system takes advantage of more or less redundant inputs. Outside of it, olfactory information seems indispensable.

Aye Jimmy .. Copy and paste them into Google or another search engine.... should work them

Only send after start of May. If did go would be just an odd old hen or Cock bird... But that is purely for the sake of being in the Averages... So as too many are sent at times when they should be due to trying for the Averages... I don't bother. Means normally 'Scottish Averages' or the distance races I am in, in any case. Inland races has never really interested me, so I don't mind missing the first two or three. Only trouble with going for the 'Long Un' is that the season is shorter, and if not excelling there... then the OLE season sometimes feels like a complete loss.

Briefly - a recently published study (July, 2006) from Germany showed that, yes, pigeons can be infected by the hot strain (Highly Pathogenic H5N1) of the virus killing chickens and some humans in SE Asia. Five of 14 experimental pigeons inoculated by nostril and eye died in a period of 5 to 19 days; the remaining nine birds lived and didn't have any sign of infection - but blood samples from these nine showed that they had significant levels of antibodies to this strain, indicating that they had been infected. The only tissue that appeared to be infected by this virus was the brain; furthermore none of these infected pigeons shed or transmitted the virus to healthy chickens housed with them. However the researchers are presently studying the subject of shedding in greater depth. It's a good news (no shedding)/bad news (yes, pigeons can be infected by this strain) story. I've just submitted an article based on this study to the RP Digest, CU yearbook/Tom Cosstick (health officer), Feather Fancier, BHW and several other international magazines, asking for some priority in publishing for the sake of providing up-to-date info for fanciers, if it's found to be an acceptable article. Gordon Chambers

http://jeb.biologists.org/cgi/content/full/208/22/4189 further http://jeb.biologists.org/cgi/reprint/208/22/4189.pdf#search=%22Pigeon%20Navigation%20Tests%22 I quite liked reading this one http://www.robots.ox.ac.uk/~sjrob/Pubs/edgeJTB.pdf#search=%22Pigeon%20Navigation%20Tests%22 http://www.springerlink.com/content/p2m33m5p55366203/ then the further update http://www.springerlink.com/content/l2166714014v313r/ This should be added to a couple of others really I suppose. http://cogprints.org/2919/ Then put this on size 151 and I thought good http://elibrary.unm.edu/sora/Auk/v104n03/p0369-p0379.pdf#search=%22Pigeon%20Navigation%20Tests%22

That was a theory back about 15 years ago ... That they could smell different regions and then location. Not a favourite of mine though. Likewise the 'Elastic - band like theory ... where it will always pulled them back to where they werre born / or adjusted to new home. Can't really get me head around that one either.

Was on site... when a Mucker from Canada emailed me with tib bit and chat like. Says that as a Race Controller ... one of three, he proposed that as no chance of a Saturday lib should they hold back till Sunday ... Even Monday lib and basket Sat / or Sunday even. Overwhelmingly turned down! ... Monday Racing is fine as most have ET and other means... Now they are heading home and watching for the best break in the weather for an Lib.... That is $500 x 2 on hold overs as well needlessly paid for. So go figure....

Hi Blondie... Suppose being a Scot will help you cope up there... Be plenty of Kirkpatricks and Tic beans I guess lol.

.. we do not know why a certain bird does not home ... HOW true Beanz ... But hen again we don't have to worry about them... as they aren't there. I am more concerned about the condition I send them in. I've make mistaes and - like some others - pushed, or sent on a Hope and a Wing' Now Mr Basket didn't sort them out, I did, and very unfairly too. Indeed one could say I've thrown away better birds than are actually in the loft. Now they are sent for three reasons only, whether training or racing. Expierence, fitness... to win. If they wink and me before going, have adorned the eye liner and smiled... then failed to shine, that is when the first and maybe last black mark is put besides their number. Often only reprieve is if needed for rearing or as a Nest mate.... unless it has proven youngsters. Then OF COURSE it is seperated to find out if it was that or the mate... or them together. But if room is needed, then they must be gone.

Mr Basket is great! ... but must only be allowed to sort conditioned healthy birds...!