The Baron Of Kippenross

[Guest darren cantrill]

the author of the book "the perigrine falcon" the adviser for the conservation and survival of the perigrine falcon to the scottish and british goverments is a mr patrick stirling aird he runs a company called "natural research limited" that provides data and research on birdlife hes secretary of the scottish raptor study groups.he is an active member of the RSPB ruling council.SO THE GUY WHOS LOOKING AT THE IMPACT ASSESSMENT OF BIRDS OF PREY FOR THE GOVERMENT HAS HAD A LIFESTIME PASSION FOR THE CONSERVATION OF BIRDS OF PREY!!!!!the leading specialist on "the perigrine falcon" is non other than mr patrick stirling aird MBE( baron of kippenross!debatable, the coat of arms has a man with a falcon on his arm).obviously the petting variety!the question i will be asking is how can a society that itself is there for the protection of birds accept the flaws in their hypocracy the pigeon fliers dont have a voice and they dont have a choice but what is clear the truth be told if it wasnt for the racing pigeon the perigrine would not have achieved the unacceptable levels of population that we are at today and if the racing pigeon was not a viable food source for the forseeable future how would the rspb council explain to its 1million members that in fact the racing pigeon was sustaining an unrealistic population of raptors.the decision the pigeon unions have got to make is very simple you either make a stand and quickly or in 3 to 5 years you will not have a sport!!!!!! the population of perigrines 1500 breeding pairs so an extra 1500 if you believe there figures thats 1 surviving younster per nest and a loss of 10% of the breeding adults per year s0 1200 extra this year THATS MINIMUM who in 2 years time could be breeding more perigrines i aint scare mongering you read this and ask yourself can we stop this yes you can and you do have a voice and you do have a choice but you must act quickly.there is only one course of action and i think you the fliers can work that out for yourselves.

[Guest darren cantrill]

in 2002 there were 3083 shu racing rings recovered from a known percentage of peregrine nestsites look up bird study volume 55 issue 1 dixon and richards field survey they estimated that between 7 and 23 % of total loft inhabitants were lost to peregrines a mean of 15% so in 2002 15% of all the pigeons in scotland were lost to perigrines say 1 in 6.66 it is estimated 1 in 4 so 25% will be lost this year minimum see richards and dixon field study 2002 this is their field study on the effects of predation of the perigrine falcon these are the figures that are being admitted

[yeboah]

in 2002 there were 3083 shu racing rings recovered from a known percentage of peregrine nestsites look up bird study volume 55 issue 1 dixon and richards field survey they estimated that between 7 and 23 % of total loft inhabitants were lost to peregrines a mean of 15% so in 2002 15% of all the pigeons in scotland were lost to perigrines say 1 in 6.66 it is estimated 1 in 4 so 25% will be lost this year minimum see richards and dixon field study 2002 this is their field study on the effects of predation of the perigrine falcon these are the figures that are being admitted

Yes as the above states 2002 ,fast forward ten years 2012 there numbers are completely out of control any nest not having a successful hatch of 3 young can quickly be brought to numbers by there extensive breeding program whereby they introduce the young to the nest sites all this costs a very large amount of money ,Linda Brooks and her staff at the Scottish union put a considerable amount of effort into this for years to no avail as each time they thought they were making progress with an MP he or she was moved to another post leaving them at square one which was most annoying for all concerned,The raptor alliance and the rpra are now trying to address the issue ,pity they had not came on board ten years ago and helped Linda and her staff.Reading the issues of the RP and BHW after this years Blackpool show and seeing the pictures of all the cheque's being donated to charities there lies a major problem has any of those said charities ever came out in National press and supported the pigeon fancy,until the day that all money's are forwarded to a central fund to employ a top barrister to fight our corner and put us on a par with the RSPB we are wasting our time.When a study of falcon nests was carried out in this area i highlighted the nest sites to one of the men employed in the study he told me that normally there are not a lot of rings to be found as these are cleared by the rspb members when they clear the sites after breeding to cover over the carnage from public view ,however he did state that a very vast amount of rings were found after the foot and mouth outbreak as no one was allowed access across farm land,good luck to those currently fighting our corner but until we employ a professional as stated above it will be a waste of time,I have witnessed this killing for 22 years now and it is only heading in one direction .

[Guest darren cantrill]

Yes as the above states 2002 ,fast forward ten years 2012 there numbers are completely out of control any nest not having a successful hatch of 3 young can quickly be brought to numbers by there extensive breeding program whereby they introduce the young to the nest sites all this costs a very large amount of money ,Linda Brooks and her staff at the Scottish union put a considerable amount of effort into this for years to no avail as each time they thought they were making progress with an MP he or she was moved to another post leaving them at square one which was most annoying for all concerned,The raptor alliance and the rpra are now trying to address the issue ,pity they had not came on board ten years ago and helped Linda and her staff.Reading the issues of the RP and BHW after this years Blackpool show and seeing the pictures of all the cheque's being donated to charities there lies a major problem has any of those said charities ever came out in National press and supported the pigeon fancy,until the day that all money's are forwarded to a central fund to employ a top barrister to fight our corner and put us on a par with the RSPB we are wasting our time.When a study of falcon nests was carried out in this area i highlighted the nest sites to one of the men employed in the study he told me that normally there are not a lot of rings to be found as these are cleared by the rspb members when they clear the sites after breeding to cover over the carnage from public view ,however he did state that a very vast amount of rings were found after the foot and mouth outbreak as no one was allowed access across farm land,good luck to those currently fighting our corner but until we employ a professional as stated above it will be a waste of time,I have witnessed this killing for 22 years now and it is only heading in one direction .

 

i totally agree with what you say there has to be many a good cause or charity who have been supported over the years who could help infact it would be in their greatest interest to help. and there has to be someone within the sport who could approach these charities and ask them to help and the central funding policy is a brilliant idea i dont want to take away from the good causes and charities that are helped through all of your generosity but the time has come to put funding inplace and make a stand the rspb will not listen to reason and that is the point the peregrine (success) story is for them a loss leader its the save this breed at all costs its their greatest achievement a bird bought back from the brink of extinction the goverment funding the donations received by this charity through its saved at the brink success story has turned it into the cash hungry money making monster that it is today the very basis of their business is built on the rings of our fallen birds for over 40 years our pigeons have suffered and will suffer even more. peregrines now mean money, the more peregrines the bigger the donations its about the money the rspb council has more bank ,hedge and pension fund specialists than ornithologists on its council why? cause its the money that matters now and come april the slaughter will start all over again cause thats what it is slaughter.tell them you have a choice come to the table or the pigeons stay in the pen if you are brave enough 1 years flying thats all it would take "aye, fight and you may die,run and you will live.at least a while!!!!!!!!!

[Guest darren cantrill]

peregrines have a territory that they will protect against other peregrines and raptors once they have picked a nest site in their territory they normaly stick to this for life but its all about convenience to them a safe environment for the nest site and the abundance of prey.off the racing pigeon line of flight and the routes that racing pigeons use to get back to their lofts there is a significant difference in the breeding pairs and once the line of flight is saturated they begin to move off to the next best feeding grounds.the second phase is now happening though these territories cant sustain as many peregrines it gives us a real indication of their nesting numbers.the peregrine can also be found in abundance around the biggest areas containing pigeon lofts.this hasnt entirely happened naturally far from it but now a saturation point exists the areas that didnt suffer will now see a dramatic increase in predation as the peregrine moves into new feeding grounds.a peregrine doesnt always stalk and kill birds on its own it will work in tandem with its breeding partner and in the summer the parents can be seen skimming the ground and flushing prey into the air this gets the prey high enough for the youngsters to practice their stooping techniques (dive bombing practice) younger pigeons are very susceptible to this and will flock as is their nature ive had youngsters ball up and disappear rising high up into the sky never to be seen again,now i know why.they sheperd our birds round in the air like sheep dogs do to sheep if its sunny beware!and contrary to what you read in bird books beware the evening if peregrines havent eaten they will take more chances so will sparrowhawks its instinct eat or die!the very nature of racing pigeons is consistency and routine and that in part is our downfall the peregrine and sparrowhawk adjust to our routine both laying in wait for the pigeons to be let out if they miss breakfast in the morning they will be waiting come afternoon imagine it like the local shop you desperately need something and to the local you will go if the shop is shut you will wait for the shop to open if it doesnt open you will go somewhere else to shop and come big shop day the larder needs filling off to the supermarket you will go to stock up imagine that as race day peregrines wait at race points, by the dozen at some, awaiting the release of your pigeons thousands upon thousands of pigeons its big shop day to them and like us queuing to pay they queue to feed. dont tell me it dont happen ive watched it happen at wincanton race course exeter and dawlish and your poor racing pigeon gets constantly harrassed all the way home channelled into valleys by the peregrine wave after wave.the only answer to this is to change the routine catch them unawares break the habit constantly change the race point week after week different convoy after different convoy always from the same race points how easy for the peregrine some race points have pigeons at them all season round like giving a burgler a key to your safe as you head to work and texting him before you leave for home!!!!!!! the same with your routine at home a trampoline safety net is handy and move it round your garden sparrowhawks hide and survey their killing field they lie in wait a few hundred metres away duck and dive over fences cars and trees swooping upon your pigeons unawares they even practice route their attack move things around in your garden especially fence height or above but not something the dreadful things can use to hide behind i had a washing line when i raced it had three wires on at fence height for washing 6ft another wire at 5ft and another one i could alter and i hung a plastic sheet all along this cut to suit pegged to line incase the poor sparrowhawk didnt see it, but i was forever forgetting to put it on i can be so absent minded at times!!! when i let my birds out i undone one end of all washing lines and they were on them tidy reels never had a strike in the garden after that please use your common sense never leave young birds alone or dont expect them to be there when you get back if i can help i will just inbox me and ill give you my number and we can dicuss your problem i dont hide behind a false name i dont condone the killing or harrassing of birds of prey and will never support others who do so cause it brings bad publicity to the sport and its against the law even in your own garden! its wrong i know and needs addressing i hope this helps regards darren

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[franny41]

just inbox me and ill give you my number and we can dicuss your problem i dont hide behind a false name i dont condone the killing or harrassing of birds of prey and will never support others who do so cause it brings bad publicity to the sport and its against the law even in your own garden! its wrong i know and needs addressing i hope this helps regards darren

 

 

What history do you have with racing pigeons mate ?????

 

The reason i ask is i see you are not a member of any racing club.

[Guest darren cantrill]

just inbox me and ill give you my number and we can dicuss your problem i dont hide behind a false name i dont condone the killing or harrassing of birds of prey and will never support others who do so cause it brings bad publicity to the sport and its against the law even in your own garden! its wrong i know and needs addressing i hope this helps regards darren

 

 

What history do you have with racing pigeons mate ?????

 

The reason i ask is i see you are not a member of any racing club.

 

i used to fly in the coventry fed the colliery club and trent valley buddy does that help mate been in the old hen lane club aswell flew ron morris pigeons for him aswell god rest his soul bin gone a few years now i flew in partnership a few years ago with a&j henton and im just getting set up again having a few latebreds off the lads i flew in partnership with and im starting back up this year is there anything else you would like to know buddy im sure i can put your mind at rest i know a bit about peregrines aswell infact pigeons have moved on that much in the past 5years that i think i know a little more about percy than i do about the doo's and like i said feel free to ask i aint got nothing to hide my friend oh and ive gone with the birds down to the race point a few times as well as chief dogs body to the convoyer and ive watched maybe 30 liberations over the past six years mainly on the south west route as far as east prawle the nearest i could get to pigeons at the time as you know its in your blood done a bit of research on old percy while i couldnt race though very amateurish compared to the research the rspb have been doing but ive learnt his habits and ive witnessed the slaughter and you dont get used to it my friend i have had to look away a few times wincanton was the worst birds just wouldnt clear they new what was coming percy was actually flying between the parked wagons displaying his contempt p/s i loved your summary im glad i aint an mp id be sent to coventry im hoping you read the other part of the thread as well about the field studies on predation from 2002

[Guest darren cantrill]

i used to fly in the coventry fed the colliery club and trent valley buddy does that help mate been in the old hen lane club aswell flew ron morris pigeons for him aswell god rest his soul bin gone a few years now i flew in partnership a few years ago with a&j henton and im just getting set up again having a few latebreds off the lads i flew in partnership with and im starting back up this year is there anything else you would like to know buddy im sure i can put your mind at rest i know a bit about peregrines aswell infact pigeons have moved on that much in the past 5years that i think i know a little more about percy than i do about the doo's and like i said feel free to ask i aint got nothing to hide my friend oh and ive gone with the birds down to the race point a few times as well as chief dogs body to the convoyer and ive watched maybe 30 liberations over the past six years mainly on the south west route as far as east prawle the nearest i could get to pigeons at the time as you know its in your blood done a bit of research on old percy while i couldnt race though very amateurish compared to the research the rspb have been doing but ive learnt his habits and ive witnessed the slaughter and you dont get used to it my friend i have had to look away a few times wincanton was the worst birds just wouldnt clear they new what was coming percy was actually flying between the parked wagons displaying his contempt

 

had to edit that then put 300 instead of 30

[franny41]

i used to fly in the coventry fed the colliery club and trent valley buddy does that help mate been in the old hen lane club aswell flew ron morris pigeons for him aswell god rest his soul bin gone a few years now i flew in partnership a few years ago with a&j henton and im just getting set up again having a few latebreds off the lads i flew in partnership with and im starting back up this year is there anything else you would like to know buddy im sure i can put your mind at rest i know a bit about peregrines aswell infact pigeons have moved on that much in the past 5years that i think i know a little more about percy than i do about the doo's and like i said feel free to ask i aint got nothing to hide my friend oh and ive gone with the birds down to the race point a few times as well as chief dogs body to the convoyer and ive watched maybe 30 liberations over the past six years mainly on the south west route as far as east prawle the nearest i could get to pigeons at the time as you know its in your blood done a bit of research on old percy while i couldnt race though very amateurish compared to the research the rspb have been doing but ive learnt his habits and ive witnessed the slaughter and you dont get used to it my friend i have had to look away a few times wincanton was the worst birds just wouldnt clear they new what was coming percy was actually flying between the parked wagons displaying his contempt p/s i loved your summary im glad i aint an mp id be sent to coventry im hoping you read the other part of the thread as well about the field studies on predation from 2002

 

Well you can't be to carefull mate spies in the camp and all that know what i mean my friend we all know how low the R.S.P.B. can stoop cheers Buddy.

[Guest darren cantrill]

Well you can't be to carefull mate spies in the camp and all that know what i mean my friend we all know how low the R.S.P.B. can stoop cheers Buddy.

 

not a problem my friend ive been observing them for the past 5years and ive no doubt they snoop on here but if we cant generate any interest in the subject matter here theres no hope of stopping the slaughter and every fact i can find that they admit i will post but you know sometimes you do feel like every one has left the building and i suppose its up to the few that are left to switch the lights back on so to speak im contemplating trying to put a field study together myself from this year maybe travel down to the race points try and put some figures together to contradict the rspb and put forward to the unions and associations but its going to be time consuming and maybe ill have to put racing on hold for a while im in a position to do that as i havent actually made any committments yet so im maybe in a better position than most.the collection of data could infact start on here who knows and maybe there are people better suited to the task but a race point warning system is a must as i said in an earlier thread the gathering of solid factual data is so important the attacks were they are happening how often even if its to for warn other fliers to stay out of certain areas or not to train on specific routes but even though the 1500 pairs of breeding peregrines dont migrate as others do in other countries (strange i know) it could help us stay 1 step ahead

[Guest Tooshy Boy]

KEEP DONKING THEM.///

[Guest darren cantrill]

Population Trends of Peregrine Falcons (F.p.peregr inus) on the Sussex

Coast of the United Kingdom, 1904 - 2006.

Bart Atield (1958-2004)

1

, Jon Franklin

1

, Phil J. Everitt

1

, John Walpole-Bond (1878-1958)

2

,

UK

1

Sussex Peregrine Study, United Kingdom. info@sussexperegrines.com.

2

Sussex.

his paper presents nest records encompassing 100 years of almost uninterrupted

monitoring of a small topographically isolated and historically important, population

of Peregrine falcons breeding on the Sussex coast of the United Kingdom. he irst 50

years, 1904-54, are recorded in the diaries of John Walpole-Bond (JW- and document

a period of intense egg collecting. Between 1954 and 1960 anecdotal evidence shows

that, although Peregrines were observed, no conirmed breeding was recorded. From

1961 to 1989 no breeding was recorded in the county and initially very few sightings

were either, although they gradually increased over the period, particularly in the 1980’s;

the 30-year absence of breeding has been attributed to the direct efects of organochlorine chemicals. Since 1990 when the irst new productive eyrie was recorded, Sussex

Peregrine Study (SPS) has documented the complete re-population of the area. Data

on territory occupation and reproductive statistics, covering the whole period, will be

presented and key features highlighted. In the 13 years to 2003 all the available ancestral

territories documented by JW-B became reoccupied, and as the population in the area

continues to grow, SPS has recorded unprecedented expansion into inland sites that was

never achieved in the previous 100 years.

 

 

so in sussex they admit an unprecedented expansion the statistics are there FACT! this is an abstract from the peregrine conference held in poland in 2007 were all the european falcon conservation experts had a meeting .WE KNOW THE TRUTH!

[Guest darren cantrill]

NORTERN IRELAND 46% OF A PEREGRINES DIET IS????????????? this is an impact analysis study of peregrine predation in northern ireland

 

Work funded by DEL studentship to Queen’s University, Belfast

As in many other predatory raptors, perceptions of impacts of Peregrine predation

on prey numbers can have negative consequences on Peregrine populations due to

the occurrence of illegal persecution by people whose goal is to maximise numbers

of these prey for human interests. Such persecution is therefore a corollary of conlict

between parties and legislation responsible for ‘managing’ or conserving Peregrines and

those managing or ‘responsible’ for the relevant prey species. Quantifying the impact

of Peregrines on the relevant prey population is a key research requirement when

attempting to resolve such conlicts and this study of Peregrine predation on racing

pigeons in Northern Ireland outlines methods of Peregrine dietary analysis and the

importance of unbiased estimates of prey consumption to estimate losses to predation.

Previous studies highlighted Northern Ireland as one of the highest areas in the UK for

racing pigeon predation by Peregrines and recent research has indicated high levels of

persecution of Peregrines by racing pigeon interests.

Direct observations of prey deliveries, prey remains and pellet analyses are utilised

here to quantify the dietary components of Peregrines in Northern Ireland, to derive

estimates of predation rates on racing pigeons. 1260 prey remains, 543 pellets and 219

observed feeds were recorded and analysed. Prey composed (by numerical frequency) of

46% pigeons, 15% crows, 22% non-corvid passerines, 8% seabirds, 5% ducks/waders, 1%

mammals and 3% unidentiied. Mean consumption of racing pigeons ranged between

14% and 29%, dependent on method used to estimate peregrine diet and highlights the

possible disparities.

Potential sources of variation and biases are presented with respect to prey identiication

and prey delivery rates (notably brood size and associated limitations for the latter) and

possibly sex-biased predation, which in the case of racing pigeon may be inclined towards

female falcons and thus markedly seasonal following the reduction in brood care of the

females in the later nestling phases. Possible mitigation and future research goals are

discussed to deliver reliable estimations of predation. his could positively inluence

Peregrine populations by decreasing the perceptions of predation and potentially

reducing persecution

[Guest darren cantrill]

IAN NEWTON, PHd has served as the chairman of the rspb,the peregrine fund and president of the british ornithologists union the british ecological society and is currently chairman of the british trust for ornithology he has been awarded an OBE for his dedication to wild bird study and since 1970 has been the leading specialist in studies conducted on raptors especially peregrines and sparrow hawk the WORLDS LEADING SPECIALIST the worlds ornithogist and protection of species groups words, not mine, and here is a quote from one of his numerous specialist books on the subject of the uks peregrine falcon quote: the peregrine falcon was at: 95% capacity potential range occupied as of 1994 the sparrowhawk was at 100% as of 1994 uk abundant this time i cant quote directly from text as it is covered by copyright law these studies where actually conducted 18years ago WE KNOW THE TRUTH! it will all begin to reveal itself SUCH AS: did you know the survival rate of a species is worked out by the number of non breeding pairs old enough to breed but dont, floaters they are called, the figures state there are sufficient floaters in the peregrine population for it not to be awarded an ' at risk' status again there words not mine

[Guest darren cantrill]

AN EXTRACT FROM A FIELD STUDY CONDUCTED BY THE RSPB:

 

 

 

1.3.3 Long-term or step-wise changes in food supplies

Some raptor species, which are normally fairly stable in numbers, have shown a marked

change in breeding density following a marked change in food supply. Often such

population changes result from human impacts on habitats, but not always. An example is

provided by the buzzard in Britain, in which breeding densities fell after the viral disease

myxomatosis reduced the number of rabbits that formed the main prey. In one area,

numbers dropped from 21 pairs to 14 pairs between one year and the next, as rabbit

numbers were reduced (Dare, 1961).

Lest anyone think from the foregoing that marked temporal changes in breeding density

occur only in species that eat microtines or lagomorphs, consider the peregrine. In parts of

Britain nesting densities have increased greatly in recent decades (to well above any

previously recorded levels), in association with the increased availability of homing pigeons,

a favourite prey (Ratcliffe, 1993; Crick & Ratcliffe, 1995).

 

 

and the proof is there for all to see took some getting hold of this one say no more

i left the buzzard piece in to show the decrease in 1 year of the breeding density numbers makes you think doesnt it 33% reduction the answers are there my friends its what we do with the information that counts they need your pigeons they need you to race cause if you didnt for 1 season they would be in trouble.makes me think theres a conspiracy with in our ranks and it wouldnt surprise me if it went right to the top harsh words i know but i will poke my finger at who ever i think is responsible this imformation arms us for the fight they admit that your pigeons are the food supply SO WHY ISNT ANYBODY DOING ANYTHING ABOUT IT???????? if anybody with any clout within the sport would like to respond feel free i dont bite

[peter pandy]

Excellent summary Darren as I have often wondered about that myself "conspiracy within RPRA". I know they did not want fanciers to know the facts regarding paramyxo in 1982.

[Guest darren cantrill]

Excellent summary Darren as I have often wondered about that myself "conspiracy within RPRA". I know they did not want fanciers to know the facts regarding paramyxo in 1982.

 

yes my friend it is a concerning issue im in the middle of writing a letter to the rpra and im going to ask some questions i will put the questions on here and any that people want removing and they give me a good reason why i will remove them from said letter also any questions anybody else would like answered and i havent included concerning B.O.P i will gladly include the answers if i get any i will put up here for all to see and we can see where we go from there the guy ian newton on the thread. earlier comment, is the guy who was involved in the vulture study the one on channel 4 a few months back about the connection with diclofenic and the effects it had on population of vultures in india

[peter pandy]

dont you sleep ?.

[Guest darren cantrill]

dont you sleep ?.

 

i try peter but when somethings in my head i struggle its easier to get my mates attention at night as well he lives abroad and some of the information i need he can get hold of a lot easier than i can

[peter pandy]

So its not insomnia then LOL.