pigeon food mixes good or bad

[Guest ben]

Billy,

       Your better off driving out to some local farms,and ask about wheat,barley peas,beans even linseed and rape..you`l find the right stuff in the end,and at a fracton of what shop prices are..the majority of farmers down here who sell pulses only plant the bean,or pea,to concentrate the nitrogen in the soil,the pea or bean harvest is just a by-product to them,they just like the rich nitrogen the roots concentrate.

[Guest]

thanks for that ben,i"m certainly changing my views on pigeon feed in general & want to get back to the sort of feeding regime i remember when i started pigeons in the mid 60"s.

the problem i gather from the postings about the subject of beans up here in scotland is locating the sources in  certain areas for farm grown feed. i personally dont know of any in my area.

the beans i have just bought,were bought through a third party,he was able to travel & buy in bulk but if i had to travel down to the same source in my car & say pick up 10 bags max.it would probably be un-economical when petrol costs were taken into consideration.

thanks again ben  bye for now billy.

[jimmy white]

hi billy mac  sounds as though their good enough beans, and as far as i can find out seem to have come from a reputable place,[well stored etc]   maybe just a wee note on the bean weevil,,,,,,the bean weevil attacks legumes either in storage or the field and may even completely destroy them .. in heavy infestations there maybe two dozen or more newly hatched larvae in one bean. when full grown ,the larvae form pupae in the eaten out cavity. as many as 6 generations are produced in a single season , and in storage breeding continues as long as there is available food left in the beans and a warm temprature.    the larvae can be killed by fumigation or by heating the seeds to  145 deg. far.   [63 deg cent] for two hours.

maybe a bit of interest to you.

glad you reminded me of "big jim"  6ft 4 ins and built like an ox, yet he was the gentle  giant who went out his way to help any one, and allways had a joke, and i bet you had a laugh at the old video, its just a pity theres not more like "big jim" nowadays, any way all the best billy and good luck to you.  jimmy

[PIGEON_MAN]

WHATS THIS I READ MR. J .WHITE APPEARING IN A VIDEO KEPT QUITE ABOUT THAT ONE HOPE IT WASN,T A BLUE ONE JIM.HAVE WE GOT A FAMOUS FILM STAR ON THE FORUM.IS IT STILL AVAILABLE OR WAS IT COMPLEATLY SOLD OUT ON RELEASH.

[jimmy white]

hi pigeon man the videos were a complete sellout    the two of them were sold right out in under 3 months ;D ;D ;D ;D

it was just a couple of amateur videos taken years ago  and off course it wasnt a blue one it was a white one ;D ;D ;D cheers pigeon man [ i think there are some illegal copies going round now ;D ;D ;D]

[Guest shadow]

I fed farm beans for years but last season the birds did not want to eat them . Was telling my friend as he gets his beans from the same local farm. several other flyers had the same problems We took a smple of the beans to be tested and found out that the beans were contaminated with mouse and rat's urine. this season. Flew on a red widohood mix and had no problems

[speedbird]

what are members views on gerry plus as are beans best for distance birds???

[Guest]

Peanuts are best for the distance, as many as they want an hour B4 they are basketed. Read Jack Barkels comments on Peanuts, very good reading.

[speedbird]

surley need other food ie carbs to go with protein or do you give em that suplement in other ways ie stuff in there water? also whats best for sprinters?

[Guest]

I feed V-laga Best All round on the morning of basketing and again at 12, then 1 hour b4 basketing peanuts, for channel racing. But the peanuts ensure that have that extra energy for a hard race.

[speedbird]

this year i mixed gerrie plus with v laga was a nice mix with plenty of everything didnt give any peanuts though!! however was 2nd n 3rd club & same in fed from 340miles last old bird race of the season & came back fill of life 1st one flew round so would the peanuts made a difference

[Guest]

Well, about to take the plunge tomorrow, Beans only. Browsing about the mill yesterday discovered they do 20Kg bags of 'individuals' : tic beans, maples and maize.

 

Beans have a lot of deep colour about them. Feel they are a bit steep though at just under £8 bag. Acknowledge probably a lot cheaper farm bought, but very much swayed by Jimmy's last post on the weevils' home life inside our pigeon's food and I think the risks from poor harvesting / storage of 'a by-product' are just too great.

 

[speedbird]

well im gonna feed some of my distance birds beans thats good thing about feeding each bird in there boxes can feed em alldifferent if ya want

[Guest]

Couldn't agree more with your comments on feeding the birds as individuals in their boxes, Speedbird. Apart from what you say about giving different birds different things, you know exactly who is eating / leaving what, and there's droppings there that you know MUST belong to one or other bird in that box!!!!

 

I'm more than pleased with the birds on beans only and its gone a lot different from what I had expected - yes they'll leave them when there's something else there for them to eat, but they're not long in scoffing them when there's sod-all-else. On Saturdays they still gobble the beans even though they know there's a pinch of seed coming after it.

 

Was also misquoted on price - £7.30 rather than nearly £8 for 20kg., so reasonable.

 

Noted nobody got back to you on "Protein, what about Carbohydrates etc". Part of my conversion was coming across the science that the bird can break down protein to make carbohydrates, when required. But carbohydrates can't be similarly converted into protein.

 

 

 

 

[Chatrace]

science that the bird can break down protein to make carbohydrates, .

.

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To much protein is bad ,it will give them blue breast and they will not be in form for race day. Carbo loading the last couple days is better in mymind than over dosing them on protein

[Guest shadow]

Couldn't agree more with your comments on feeding the birds as individuals in their boxes, Speedbird. Apart from what you say about giving different birds different things, you know exactly who is eating / leaving what, and there's droppings there that you know MUST belong to one or other bird in that box!!!!

 

I'm more than pleased with the birds on beans only and its gone a lot different from what I had expected - yes they'll leave them when there's something else there for them to eat, but they're not long in scoffing them when there's sod-all-else. On Saturdays they still gobble the beans even though they know there's a pinch of seed coming after it.

 

Was also misquoted on price - £7.30 rather than nearly £8 for 20kg., so reasonable.

Noted nobody got back to you on "Protein, what about Carbohydrates etc". Part of my conversion was coming across the science that the bird can break down protein to make carbohydrates, when required. But carbohydrates can't be similarly converted into protein.

 

 

 

we only pay £5 bag for beans and £3 for barley. I only pay £7.30 for bucktons HP economical

 

 

[Guest]

Chatrace, I take your point about what is said about carbohydrate 'loading'. But what you appear to be saying is too much protein is 'bad' but too much carbohydrate is 'good'.  Surely too much of anything is 'bad'.  :-/

 

What I've said is that after the body breaks protein down to its first stage (amino acids) if these aren't required to be reconstructed into other proteins, these are again broken down .... to glucose, the simplest sugar (carbohydrate) and available for immediate use anywhere in the body that needs energy, or stored as glycogen or fat.

 

The science I spoke of is extracted from a Gordon Chalmers' article:

 

Protein in flight

 

Peas, beans and peanuts, for example, are important high quality proteins, containing a wide range of essential amino acids needed to help construct many of the other proteins required by the bird’s body.

 

A few of these amino acids from protein digestion are very useful as a potential source of flight energy. Body cells are able to convert them to glucose, which can be used for building reserves of glycogen in liver and muscle, or for the production of fat. Dr Bill Mulligan formerly of Glasgow University in Scotland, worked extensively with racing pigeons, found that during flight the racing pigeon uses carbohydrates (glucose) but mainly fat as a source of fuel for the working muscle. However, the brain can use only glucose as a source of energy. It is possible that during flight especially endurance events, pigeons draw on certain protein reserves to help supply glucose for the brain.

Also, the end product of protein digestion and metabolism is uric acid - the white pasty tip on normally-formed droppings. Uric acid circulates in the blood stream prior to being eliminated through the kidneys, and has a very important role to play in preventing or decreasing the effects of the excessive heat created by working muscle and high environmental temperatures.

 

 

 

 

 

 

[jimmy white]

first and foremost i would say , whatever" brand" you use, make sure its clean and well stored, no good buying any so called best brands if their stored in damp,dirty or stuffy conditions, which some of them are.

[Guest]

Agree with what you say about storage etc, Jimmy and in a previous post said that I didn't mind paying a higher price to guarantee what I was getting was best quality.

 

In fact it was Shadow 'who made me mind up' with the post on 'cheap' farm beans contaminated by rats & mice. Don't know if I'd posted before, or just co-incidence that Shadow posted the price of Bucktons high protein / winter economy, I feed Bucktons and have had a good look at the various mixes, including this, but reckon there's a lot of pure bulking-out 'smalls' in it... think I'd need to feed it by the shovel-full to satisfy my birds.

 

Took particular interest in the original post, what the good flyer said about beans, and especially what Rose said about beans only, and reckoned I'd better find out more, because frankly, Old Hand advised beans only in the 60's and I just wouldn't even try it then (multi-grain prejudice?).

 

There's more to beans than first meets the eye, and I'm sure that it hasn't gone unnoticed that the article opened with 'beans, peas and peanuts....' so maybe peanuts work a wee bit differently to what we think  too ....

[Guest ben]

Hi Bruno,

            Perhaps you got your conclusion the wrong way aroundif you get in your beans,peas ect...fresh harvest,straight from farm as soon as it comes in,no rats,mice got a chance to piddle on them.different with many of those higher price mixtures you think are better,the different cearals and pulses could have been hanging around where-ever for god knows how long,air brushed and polished may hide many faults from your sight and smell,but your pigeons will know quicker than you.

    Buy fresh,harvest from farm,you can see what your buying,and remember,rats and mice will always go 1st for small grain,like wheat ect.

   But what we should all remember,a bean only diet,with fats added at the right time will certainly give you top class racing,but so will many other mixes,and feedstuffs,but at a much better price.But saying that £8 per 20klsworks out at £10 proper 1/2cwt bag(25kls-56lbs)fAR TO EXPENSIVE,CAN`T BE JUSTIFIED.

   Sometimes i think all this talk about certain feedstuffs you have to feed the birds just brainwash us,i`ve sent birds across the pond on a barley only diet,and the have come ok,especially the hens,i`m not saying all season mind,but i can`t see why we should worry so much,you think what those tiples used to fly10-15-20 hours,on mostly wheat in those days, FOOD FOR THOUGHT?

   

[Guest]

Agree, Ben, fanciers in general maybe get far too hung-up on what they feed their birds.  

 

Attended club annual presentation last night and guests (3 very successful SNFC flyers) said they simply fed proprietry mixes for the seasons: moult, winter, breed and race. One of them also said come Boxing Day, barley only for the winter.

 

As you say, indeed food for thought!!!!!!  ;D

[jimmy white]

agree with most of your post ben, but with due respect, i dont think you can even begin to compare the tiplers, flying 16 hours to a race bird flying 16 hours, there is just no comparison, i have never seen or heard of a pigeon , fed on barley alone, win any 5 to 600 mile races in to scotland, for this distance, the bird has to call on reserves, and most certainly, barley, will not give the pigeon these reserves, as i say ben, this is with due respect and only my opinion.