Who decides who can have ETS.

[Elvan Willgrass]

I have just been looking in the sales and wanted and noticed a Unikon ETS System for sale belonging to person whose club had bought ETS for all the members, so there fore wishing to sell his. Reading the reply and advice emails sent regarding this clock it seems most fanciers are very happy with this system, but a course it is in Scotland. I have raced pigeons for more than forty years on my own (one man band) and see nothing wrong with the system and I would really like to have the ETS. We have had very little change in the way we race pigeons for years and I don’t see it has done us any good, just like workman's clubs many did not change from the sixties way of running them and many have now gone down, them that changed have survived. Who are the people who actually decide if we can or cannot have the ETS, it does not seem to be the members in general. How is it ok for one-loft races in England but not for the rest of us? It seems like children we are told we can't have it so shut up about it. I once saw about five years ago a column in one of the pigeon weeklies about someone who was going to a meeting who thought not enough people against the ETS would be there so he took some to make sure he had enough to knock it on the head.

 

I noticed the ETS for sale in question was quickly sold but I am not allowed to do this, I can buy one but that is all. So who does say what I am allowed to do with clocks.          

 

[Henrik]

At the end of the day everyone who wishes to have ETS will be able to have it as  you cannot allow it only for Disabled fanciers as that is discriminating against the abled bodied amonst us and as everyone should now know Discrimination is now ILLEGAL

[Guest TAMMY_1]

At the end of the day everyone who wishes to have ETS will be able to have it as  you cannot allow it only for Disabled fanciers as that is discriminating against the abled bodied amonst us and as everyone should now know Discrimination is now ILLEGAL

 

DO YOU GET DISCRIMINATED AGAINST IF YOU FALL ASLEEP  IN THE BATH ?

[THE FIFER]

IT IS ILEGAL NOW TO DISCRIMINATE AGAINST THE ELDERLY.

[Guest TAMMY_1]

IT IS ILEGAL NOW TO DISCRIMINATE AGAINST THE ELDERLY.

 

well thats you sorted square_peg and maverick

[Elvan Willgrass]

I got my answer sooner than I thought, Peter Bryant must have sent his message strait after I sent in mine. So there it is.

[Guest]

Do I read Peter Bryants message correctly if not will someone put me right, is there a proposal on the table to have an able bodied person on hand for timing pigeons in for a disabled person.

 

ONE GIANT LEAP BACK INTO THE STONEAGE

 

Just my personal opinion

 

[Guest Paulo]

no he's basically saying that there is no option but to introduce the ETS

[Guest Paulo]

"Frankly, I do believe that we are making mountains out of molehills.  The DDA requires us to make allowances for disabled people.  Unless someone comes up with a viable alternative to ETS then there is, as far as I can see, no alternative but to introduce it.''

 

 

Otherwise the RPRA will be discriminating against disabled people.

[Guest TAMMY_1]

I got my answer sooner than I thought, Peter Bryant must have sent his message strait after I sent in mine. So there it is.

 

I GOT IT FIRST HAND BECAUSE HE IS MY UNCLE, HAD IT A WEE WHILE BEFORE YOU POSTED BUT WAS TOO BUSY  TO PUT IT ON THEN

[Guest]

Ok thanks, I must have read it wrong

[mealybar]

Do I read Peter Bryants message correctly if not will someone put me right, is there a proposal on the table to have an able bodied person on hand for timing pigeons in for a disabled person.

 

ONE GIANT LEAP BACK INTO THE STONEAGE

 

Just my personal opinion

 

Yes you were right, that is one of the options!!

[Guest Paulo]

"The President and VPs did suggest having a helper to assist a disabled fancier timing in but the very first time that the assistant does not turn up for any reason the disabled fancier will be discriminated against.''

 

yeah but read the above if thats the case than its not an option as it will not comply with the legislation. So theres no chance of that being implemented it was merely suggested and with the below:-

 

"Frankly, I do believe that we are making mountains out of molehills.  The DDA requires us to make allowances for disabled people.  Unless someone comes up with a viable alternative to ETS then there is, as far as I can see, no alternative but to introduce it.''

 

that would suggest to me that he is saying the ablebodied helper thing is a load of rubbish. You were at the meeting through Richard so you would know better than a thick Durham lad like me lol. Unless you were alsleep or scoffing all the hobnobs   ;D

[MsPigeon]

You know, I am very happy to hear that FINALLY you guys will get to make your own choice on using ETS or not. But it sounds to me like the disability issue is just being used as the only avenue you guys in favor of ETS had to get it voted in. It's too bad that it had to come to that, but I think it is a wise choice to use it to get ETS in. I will bet that many of those who oppose it now will love it if they ever use it.

[pault]

geting back to the question( 'Who decides who can have ETS.) surely we should decide ? all members should have a vote on E.T.S and lets see how it goes can not say fairer than that. what do members think.

I THINK WE SHOULD ALL HAVE THE CHOICE.SO LETS VOTE ON IT

[Poacher]

When the Junior T2 and T3 clock was approved, the RPRA's own clock committe amended the rules for them, so whay did they not do this when the approved the ETS system, they also endorse the system in their own one loft race, how would that look in the European Court of human rights, after all we are affiliated to the Western European Confederation the FCI and so on, we compete with the BICC in the International races ywe are not allowed to use in the same competions as Europeand competitors, can the RPRA realy say you cant use it, I dont think so

[THE FIFER]

 

DO YOU GET DISCRIMINATED AGAINST IF YOU FALL ASLEEP  IN THE BATH ?

 

NO, AS EVERYONE CAN FALL ASLEEP IN THE BATH IF THEY WANT ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D

[Guest TAMMY_1]

 

NO, AS EVERYONE CAN FALL ASLEEP IN THE BATH IF THEY WANT ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D

 

WELL THATS YOU OKAY NOW HENRIK YOU HAVE BEEN GIVEN THE OKAY

[Guest Paulo]

"does this disability act mean that every pigeon club now has to have facilities for disabled members .''

 

Technically yes all public buildings should be DDA access compliant as detailed in part M of the building regulations. Thats why now new houses are built with light switchs at a lower height, no front doorstep, and a toilet under the stairs within so many metres of the front door. In practice most places can't afford it especially workmans clubs etc.

 

This government is a joke they have created a culture that is totally nanny state. I have no problem with public buildings been made more accessable for diabled people but where do you draw the line. New houses now discriminate against able-bodied people and cost a forture to build because of the new requirements. By all means developers should pay a tax on new estates so the government has a pot of money to adapt houses if disabled people buy them but at the minute the whole legislation is a joke.

 

We are going to end up with ramps on every building won't even be able to wlak along the pavements lol.

[Guest Paulo]

geting back to the question( 'Who decides who can have ETS.) surely we should decide ? all members should have a vote on E.T.S and lets see how it goes can not say fairer than that. what do members think.

I THINK WE SHOULD ALL HAVE THE CHOICE.SO LETS VOTE ON IT

 

 

It won't matter your votes mean nowt against the governments powerful array of laws.

 

"FACT 4 ? The President and VPs made 4 recommendations

 

a.       Introduce ETS for disabled members.

 

b.      Introduce ETS for all the membership.

 

c.       Review how disabled fanciers can be assisted as an alternative to ETS if this is within the scope of the Act.

 

d.      Do nothing.''

 

Basically there is the options above. Option D is a non starter under the legislation. So change has to come. If an alternative to ETS is feasible than it may not come in. However if you read the whole minutes its obvious that introducing ETS either for disabled members or all members is the option.

 

Plus the defination of who has a disablity is very very broad:-

 

"FACT 2 - Under the Act a person has a disability ?if he has a physical or mental impairment which has a substantial and long term adverse effect on his ability to carry out normal day-to-day activities?. So, you don?t just have to be in a wheelchair, or be an orange badge holder etc.  Disability is as broad as it is long.''

 

So anybody who thinks he or she has a disability could take the RPRA to court if they are denied ETS. So I reckon that reading between the lines they will go for the option b and introduce ETS to all the membership. They probably will give you some sort of vote on it but the easiest option for them to meet the compliance of the legislation is to go for option B so I suspect they will strongly try and influence their members to go for that one.

 

Just my take on the situation.

 

 

 

 

[pigeonpete]

Personally i dont see what all the fuss is about :-/ its 2007, if people want to use ets then use it if you dont, then dont and if it encourages people in to our sport who cant be with there birds 24/7 due to family,work etc then all the better, i know by me using ets that i would nt gain an advantage, over the good flyers using conventional clocks as ive seen them clock in on widowhood, doors open bang in box clocked in!! so whats the big issue here? the sooner it get passed the better i think, and no i wont be using just yet as i just bought a new t3s but would consider for 2008 is i worth all the falling out? some people dont like change for the better i know, so carry on as they are its no problem :

[Guest Paulo]

I'm not a huge fan of it so far but the one way it would help me in flying on my own is training.

 

I would be able to see which birds were coming better. Still expense is the main thing that would put me off.

[MsPigeon]

I'm not a huge fan of it so far but the one way it would help me in flying on my own is training.

 

Your right, it IS a huge asset to see how they are training. Because of where I live my birds always beat me home. But it does get you to wondering when your not there to actually watch them trap. Are the ones that trap in later actually arriving later or just flying longer around home or goofing off on the roof or taking a bath in the water trough? But after the race season begins it really helps when picking the birds to go next race. If they were slow from the race and are also late trapping from training they are trying to tell you something even if they look in top health.