Wiley Posted December 12, 2006 Report Share Posted December 12, 2006 I like cats they eat rats a poet and he didnt even know it ;D Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Paulo Posted December 12, 2006 Report Share Posted December 12, 2006 the fat cat sat on the mat as the rat eat a *expletive removed* and the *expletive removed* had a rap and the rap was pap a dap poc a doc shock a mop Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
samantha Posted December 12, 2006 Report Share Posted December 12, 2006 a poet and he didnt even know it ;D see peregrine what we have to deal with ?? : : bout sums it up really ;D ;D Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Paulo Posted December 12, 2006 Report Share Posted December 12, 2006 you love me really sam its like care in the community isn't it lol ;D ;D ;D ;D :P 8) :K) : : Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
samantha Posted December 12, 2006 Report Share Posted December 12, 2006 you love me really sam its like care in the community isn't it lol ;D ;D ;D ;D :P 8) :K) : : * dispair * *shakes head * : Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stevebelbin Posted December 12, 2006 Report Share Posted December 12, 2006 I think your in with Paulo there Sam ;D ;D ;D ;D Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Paulo Posted December 12, 2006 Report Share Posted December 12, 2006 its no fun when richard expletive removed still its all about protecting the children Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Paulo Posted December 12, 2006 Report Share Posted December 12, 2006 she should be so lucky I'm taken. My pigeons are the only birds for me at the moment lol Only joking I'm beating them off with a big stick at the moment since I started my new job Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
samantha Posted December 12, 2006 Report Share Posted December 12, 2006 I think your in with Paulo there Sam ;D ;D ;D ;D whooo hoooo its my lucky day !! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Paulo Posted December 12, 2006 Report Share Posted December 12, 2006 hows your new hen anyway stev got her cleaning out yet? The last one I was seeing hated pigeons :o :o scared of them and that like they were going to attack her or something Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
samantha Posted December 12, 2006 Report Share Posted December 12, 2006 she should be so lucky I'm taken. My pigeons are the only birds for me at the moment lol oh bugga!!! :-/ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
peregrine Posted December 12, 2006 Report Share Posted December 12, 2006 providing research and information services to the Scottish Parliament 1 Research Note 99/50 Revised 10 January 2000 RACING PIGEONS AND BIRDS OF PREY This research note provides an overview of the nature and severity of the conflict between racing pigeons and birds of prey in Scotland. It has been produced at the request of the Rural Affairs and Transport and Environment Committees of the Scottish Parliament to assist them in considering a petition received by the Scottish Homing Union. On the 27 July 1999 the Scottish Homing Union (SHU) requested the Scottish Parliament to consider the following petition: ‘We, the undersigned request that the Government carries out an urgent review of the operation of the Wildlife and Countryside Act 1981 with a view to introducing changes which take account of the situation which has development since the enactment of the legislation. We wish two main outcomes: In the definitions in the legislation, the granting of a status to racing pigeons which would enable their owners to legitimately protect their birds; agreement on population levels of birds of prey designed to achieve an acceptable ecological balance with other species of birds. In requesting this urgent review, we are of course aware, that the Government has responsibilities and obligations under the terms of the European Wild Birds Directive 1979. Our understanding is, however, that the Directive authorises member states to make certain exceptions supervised by the European Union. There, thus, appears to be no good reason why the review sought cannot be providing research and information services to the Scottish Parliament 2 undertaken as a matter of urgency. This appeal to Government is made earnestly and sincerely. Please help us to save the sport of pigeon racing.’ The Scottish Homing Union (SHU) is the body representing all pigeon fanciers in Scotland with which they have to be affiliated if they wish to race their birds. The SHU has approximately 5,267 membersi who are located throughout Scotland with particular concentrations in East, South and Central Scotlandii. This research note has been produced at the request of the Rural Affairs and Transport and Environment Committees to assist them in considering the SHU Petition. PIGEONS AND BIRDS OF PREY – THE DEBATE Predation of pigeons The Scottish Homing Union (SHU) is concerned about the increasing number of attacks by birds of prey, particularly sparrowhawks and peregrines, on racing pigeons. Although the SHU accepts that the nature of the sport carries a degree of risk from attacks by predators, it considers the risk of these attacks to have become unacceptably high. It attributes increases in attacks to increases in the populations of birds of prey resulting from implementation of the Wildlife and Countryside Act 1981ii. Losses of racing pigeons to birds of prey occur during exercise, around the loft area, during race training and during racingiii. Losses can be a result of direct attacks on pigeons by birds of prey and of disturbance to pigeons, which may cause them to panic and become injured or get lost. There is a shortage of independent scientific research into the extent of the problem. However, the SHU conducted a survey of its members in 1996/97ii. Almost 95% of Scottish pigeon racing clubs were surveyed and completed questionnaires were received from 1,937 pigeon lofts (representing around 47% of all lofts in Scotland). Approximately 90% of the respondents to the SHU survey stated that they had a problem with birds of prey. Estimates of total losses of racing pigeons should be considered in the context of the total racing pigeon population in Scotland. Although the SHU survey does not give this information, it does show that 210,647 rings were issued for new racing pigeons in 1996ii. The results of the SHU survey are summarised in Table 1. Table 1 Summary of results of SHU survey showing racing pigeon losses in 1996 Loses during training Loses during racing Loses during exercise No of lofts losing pigeons 1,713 1,643 1,587 No of pigeons lost 33,043 34,685 7,935 Average loss per loft that lost pigeons 19.3 21.1 5 providing research and information services to the Scottish Parliament 3 The estimates of average losses shown in Table 1 suggest that around 45 pigeons are lost per year from each loft that has a problem. However, 1,937 lofts responded to the SHU survey, some of which presumably didn’t have a problem with birds of prey. Taking this into account would give an estimate that approximately 39 pigeons are lost per loft per season. Given that there are 4,120 lofts in Scotland an approximation of the total number of pigeons lost over the 1996 season would be 160,680. This figure should, however, be compared with the 210,647 rings issued for new racing pigeons in 1996. In considering the reported losses of racing pigeons, it is important to note that all those that occur when they are out of sight during training and racing can not be attributed to attacks by birds of prey. Other causes of loss might include: • pigeons getting lost (eg: due to poor weather, radio and magnetic waves, poor quality birds or racing practices); • pigeons choosing not to return and joining the feral population; • pigeons dying en route due to fatigue (which may be exacerbated by poor weather, collisions with overhead lines, shooting, other predators (including cats, foxes, stoats, mink etc))iii. Scientific research confirms that birds of prey (particularly peregrines and sparrowhawks) do kill domestic pigeons. Wild, ferral and domestic pigeons are the main prey of peregrines in the UKiv. Ferral and domestic pigeons, however, are thought to form less than 5% of the diet of sparrowhawksv although this is disputed by the SHU consultant ornithologist. Population levels of birds of prey Complete legal protection was first introduced for peregrines in 1954 and for sparrowhawks in 1961. However, many of the original efforts to increase the populations of these species were countered by negative influences. For example, during both World Wars peregrines were officially killed to protect carrier pigeons. Between the late 1950s and early 1970s, many birds of prey were poisoned as a result of agricultural use of organochlorine pesticides, such as DDT. These chemicals are extremely persistent and fat-soluable, so readily accumulate in the bodies of birds. Birds which prey on other birds accumulate high enough concentrations of the chemicals to depress reproduction and survivalvi. Populations of both peregrines and sparrowhawks are now recovering. The number of peregrines, most recently estimated to be 1,263 pairs in the UKvii, is at its highest level this century following serious reductions due to organochlorine poisoning when the population fell to 360 pairs in 1963viii. There are estimated to be 625 pairs of peregrines in Scotland, representing almost 50% of the UK populationiii. A factor thought to have contributed to the super recovery of peregrines in some areas is the increase in the availability of domestic pigeons as foodvi. Although the peregrine population has now largely recovered, the species is still absent from parts of its former range in the UK and has declined in other providing research and information services to the Scottish Parliament 4 areas since 1981 probably due to illegal persecution, environmental pollutants and deterioration in habitat qualityv. Sparrowhawks have always been widespread in the UK although they suffered serious declines due to organochlorine use in the 1960s and 1970s. Restrictions on the use of organochlorines enabled sparrowhawk populations to mostly recover by 1990. They are now the second most abundant bird of prey in the UK with around 34,500 pairs in the UK and 7,000 pairs in Scotlandvi. With population size frequently limited by the availability of suitable nesting sites, sparrowhawk populations are now thought unlikely to increase further in many areas. However, in some places sparrowhawks have declined recently, probably due to reductions in songbird prey populations caused by the reduced quality of the farmland environment. Numbers of birds of prey are thought unlikely to increase indefinitely and populations of all species are expected to stabilise at levels limited by the availability of food or nest sitesv. Relatively speaking, numbers of birds of prey are low. Table 2 compares current populations of sparrowhawks and peregrines with those of common prey species. Table 2 GB populations of sparrowhawks and peregrines and common prey species Species GB Population Peregrine 1,167 Sparrowhawkvi 32,000 Wood pigeonvi 2,325,000 Blackbirdvi 4,400,000 Conservation groups argue that the continued legal protection of all species of birds of prey is essential because of their proven high susceptibility to human impacts. This is because they are at the top of the food chain and therefore particularly susceptible to poisoning by persistent environmental pollutants and because they are relatively long-lived and slow to reproduce so populations are less able to increase rapidly. They also argue that birds of prey are important parts of the natural heritage and that their presence can contribute to local economies by increasing tourismviii. LEGAL PROTECTION OF BIRDS IN THE UK EU Birds Directive All wild birds are protected under EEC Directive 79/409/EEC of 2 April 1979 on the conservation of wild birds (hereafter referred to as the ‘Birds Directive’). Article 2 of the Birds Directive requires that: ‘Member States shall take the requisite measures to maintain the population of the species referred to in Article 1 [all naturally occurring birds in the wild state] at a level which corresponds in particular to ecological, scientific and cultural requirements, while taking account of economic and providing research and information services to the Scottish Parliament 5 recreational requirements, or to adapt the population of these species to that level.’ Article 3 of the Birds Directive requires that, to this end: ‘Member States shall take the requisite measures to preserve, maintain or re-establish a sufficient diversity and area of habitats for all species of birds.’ [naturally occurring in the wild state]. Article 4 of the Birds Directive requires special conservation measures, including the establishment of Special Protection Areas, for species which are either listed on Annex 1 of the Directive (including, for example, peregrine, osprey and black grouse) or are migratory. The species listed in Annex 1 are considered worthy of special treatment because they are either in danger of extinction; vulnerable to specific changes in their habitat; rare because of small populations or restricted distributions; or vulnerable because of the specific nature of their habitat. Article 5 of the Birds Directive provides for a general system of protection for all species naturally occurring the in the wild. This includes the prohibition of • deliberate killing or capture of the bird species covered by the Directives. However, the hunting of certain species is permitted on condition that the methods used comply with certain principles; • destruction, damage or collection of nests and eggs; • deliberate disturbance; • detention of species. Article 9 of the Directive provides for a system of derogation from the Articles 5, 6, 7 and 8 ‘where there is no other satisfactory solution’ for the following reasons: • in the interests of public health and safety • in the interests of air safety • to prevent serious damage to crops, livestock forests, fisheries and water • to protect flora and fauna. The Wildlife and Countryside Act 1981 implements the EU Birds Directive in the UK. Wildlife and Countryside Act 1981 The requirements under the Birds Directive, to protect all wild birds, are transposed into UK law by the Wildlife and Countryside Act 1981. The derogation requirements of the Directive are transposed by Section 4(3) and Section 16 of the Wildlife and Countryside Act which were significantly strengthened in 1995 by the Wildlife and Countryside Act 1981 (Amendment) Regulations 1995. Section 16 allows licences to be issued to take protected birds if they are causing serious damage to livestock, foodstuffs or fisheries, but only if there is no other satisfactory solution. providing research and information services to the Scottish Parliament 6 Section 4(3) of the Act (as amended) allows wild birds, other than those on Schedule 11, to be killed without a licence but only if it can be proven to have been necessary to: • protect public health, public safety, or air safety; • prevent the spread of disease; or • prevent serious damage to livestock, food stuffs for livestock, crops, vegetables, fruit, growing timber or fisheries. and only if the problem could not have been reasonably foreseen and a licence sought in advance. Status of racing pigeons, sparrowhawks and peregrines in the legislation Where peregrines and sparrowhawks occur in the wild in the UK they are protected. Peregrines are listed in Annex 1 of the EU Wild Birds Directive and Schedule 1 (Part 1) of the Wildlife and Countryside Act 1981. This means that they are amongst the most heavily protected wild birds in the EU. Racing pigeons are domestic, rather than wild, birds and are not protected other than by legislation relating to animal cruelty, for example. SOLUTIONS TO THE PROBLEM Granting a new status to racing pigeons In their petition the SHU request: ‘In the definitions in the legislation, the granting of a status to racing pigeons which would enable their owners to legitimately protect their birds’. Member States are allowed to derogate from the provisions of the Birds Directive to protect livestock. This might be implemented by the Wildlife and Countryside Act 1981 (as amended) in relation to racing pigeons and birds of prey in two ways: • Licenses may be issued for killing otherwise protected species (including sparrowhawk and peregrine) to prevent serious damage to livestock. • Protected birds, which are not on Schedule 1 (would include sparrowhawk but not peregrine), may be killed without a licence if it can be proven to have been necessary to prevent serious damage to livestock and if the problem could not have been foreseen and a licence sought in advance. It is likely therefore that the SHU would like racing pigeons to be granted the status of ‘livestock’ which would introduce the possibility of licences being issued to kill peregrines or sparrowhawks for their protection. It may also allow pigeon fanciers to kill sparrowhawks without a licence if they could prove that this was necessary to prevent serious damage to their pigeons and could not have been foreseen. The current definition of livestock under the Act2 emphasises their use for economic benefit. Since domestic pigeons are not kept for economic reasons or 1 Birds on Schedule 1 of the Act are specially protected and include the peregrine. providing research and information services to the Scottish Parliament 7 to support livelihoods, it may be difficult to prove that they are worthy of this status. Legal advice sought by DETR and supported by MAFF has suggested that they could not class racing pigeons as ‘livestock’ for the purposes of the Actiii. Even if domestic pigeons were defined as livestock, legal control of birds of prey is likely to be difficult to secure. Licences to kill birds of prey would be issued by the Scottish Executive Rural Affairs Department (SERAD) which takes advice from Scottish Natural Heritage (SNH). Although it is possible under current legislation for licences to be issued to kill birds of prey to protect livestock, no evidence can be found for such licences ever being issued. Nor are there any examples of individuals having been able to prove that they had legally killed non-Schedule 1 birds of prey under Section 4(3) to protect livestock. Acceptable population levels and ‘balance’ In their petition the SHU is also seeking: ‘agreement on population levels of birds of prey designed to achieve an acceptable ecological balance with other species of birds’. The SHU would like it to be recognised that control of the numbers of birds of prey is required to achieve a balance between an acceptable level of risk to their members and an acceptable level of control for birds of prey. Conservation groups however suggest that, to reduce attacks on racing pigeons, so many birds of prey would have to be controlled that it would adversely affect their conservation status. Since pigeons form such a small proportion of the diet of sparrowhawks a large number would have to be taken to reduce their impact on racing pigeon numbers. Although there is likely to be a stronger link between the number of peregrines and the number of racing pigeons taken, the smaller size of the peregrine population means that killing relatively few may easily affect their conservation status. The issue of acceptable population levels is complex and likely to be difficult to define. It is frequently called for to help prevent well known declines in songbird populations, which form a significant component of the diet of sparrowhawks. Researchix has shown that, although sparrowhawks may take significant numbers of some wild prey species, they have never had a proven impact upon the breeding populations of these species. Conservation groups point out that researchx has shown some songbird populations not to be affected by increased numbers of sparrowhawks and that populations of some prey species (such as woodpigeon, great tit and robin) are not currently declining, in spite of increases in sparrowhawk populations.viii. 2 ‘includes any animal which is kepta) for the provision of food, wool, skins or fur; for the purpose of its use in the carrying on of any agricultural activity; or c) for the provision or improvement of shooting or fishing’ providing research and information services to the Scottish Parliament 8 Deterrents Conservation groups are calling for greater support for developing deterrents against birds of prey by pigeon fanciers. Such deterrents include: • Bali bells which are fitted to pigeon’s tails and emit a high-pitched noise when they fly; • the application of butterfly or owl eye markings to pigeons wings or napes; • aversive conditioning of birds of prey by treating pigeons with a chemical which induces vomiting in the bird of prey; • other deterrents such as model eagle owls, large mirrors or painting eye markings on or close to pigeon loftsviii. SHU claim it to be in their members’ interests to have tried most of these deterrents. Of the 366 respondents to their survey who had experimented with deterrents only 39 found them to be of any use in reducing attacks. However, there seems to have been little independent scientific research into the effectiveness of such deterrents. Conservation groups suggest that the option of aversive conditioning of birds of prey may be promisingviii, but the SHU express concern that this option should be the subject of considerably more research before being widely recommendedii. The need for more research prior to the widespread introduction of such deterrents is supported by a PhD thesis published by the University of Bristol in 1994xi. CONTEXT FOR THE DEBATE The debate about pigeons and birds of prey forms part of a wider debate on the impact of birds of prey on various interests in the UK. In response to these concerns John Gummer, then UK Environment Minister, established the UK Raptor Forum in 1995. It has more than 30 members with an interest in issues concerning birds of prey and meets annually. The Raptor Forum is informed by the smaller Raptor Working Groupxii, which reports both to the Forum and to Ministers. When it was established, the terms of reference of the Raptor Working Group were to: consider the population status of birds of prey; identify the species alleged to be causing problems; identify, in particular, the impact of such species on game birds, moorland management and racing pigeons; identify gaps in research and possible sources of funding; consider statutory and other mechanisms for the resolution of problems; and report back to the Forum within one yearxiii. Since their initial examination of the issues and reporting to the Forum, the Raptor Working Group, through the DETR, has commissioned and overseen three pieces of external scientific research to help inform their decisions. One of these commissions was of the Hawk and Owl Trust to research the issue of pigeons and birds of prey. Their remit was to investigate the frequency of attacks by sparrowhawk, peregrine and goshawk on domestic pigeons in the UK and to examine these in relation to other causes of lossxiv. The Hawk and Owl Trust were also asked to consider various solutions to any problems identified and worked closely with the pigeon fanciers in conducting their researchxiv which was providing research and information services to the Scottish Parliament 9 completed in September 1998. The Hawk and Owl Trust report is due to be published by the DETR early in 2000. The findings and recommendations of the Hawk and Owl Trust will contribute to the main report of the Raptor Working Group. This is due to be published in spring 2000, and will form the basis for recommendations to Ministers on the management of all issues concerning birds of prey in the UK. Information Centre Research Notes are compiled for the benefit of Members of the Scottish Parliament and their personal staff. Authors are available to discuss the contents of these papers with Members and their staff but cannot advise members of the general public. i Scottish Homing Union (1999), personal communication, 4 November 1999 ii Scottish Homing Union (1999), Attacks by peregrines and sparrowhawks on racing pigeons in Scotland, an appeal by the Scottish Homing Union, save our sport. iii DETR/JNCC Raptor Working Group, Progress report to ministers, 6 November 1998. iv Ratcliffe DA (1993), The peregrine falcon, Second edition T and AD Poyser, London. v Newton, I (1986), The sparrowhawk, Poyser, Calton. vi Gibbons DW, Reid JB, Chapman RA (1994), The new atlas of breeding birds in Britain and Ireland, 1988-1991, British Trust for Ornithology, Scottish Ornithologists Club, Irish Wildbird Conservancy, T & AD Poyser. vii Crick HQP and Ratcliffe DA 1995, The Peregrine Falco peregrinus breeding population of the UK in 1991, Bird Study 45, 1-19. viii British Trust for Ornithology, The Hawk and Owl Trust, the National Trust, the National Trust for Scotland, the Royal Society for the Protection of Birds, the Scottish Ornithologists’ Club, Scottish Raptor Study Groups, Wales Raptor Study Groups, the Wildfowl and Wetlands Trust, the Wildlife Trusts and World Wide Fund for Nature (1997) Birds of Prey in the UK: back from the brink, Thetford. ix Newton I, Dale K and Rothery P, Apparent lack of impact of sparrowhawks on breeding densities of some woodland songbirds, Bird Study. x Newton I, Dale L and Rothery P (1997), Apparent lack of impact of sparrowhawks on the breeding densities of some woodland songbirds, Bird Study 44 pp129-135. xi Musgrove A (1994), Peregrines and pigeons: investigations into a raptor-human conflict, PhD thesis. xii Members of the Raptor Working Group are Royal Society for the Protection of Birds, the Scottish Raptor Study Groups, the Joint Nature Conservation Committee; the Scottish Landowners Federation; the British Association for Shooting and Conservation; the Game Conservancy Trust, the Royal Association of Pigeon Racers, the Scottish Executive and the Department of the Environment, Transport and the Regions. xiii Department of the Environment, Bird of Prey Working Group begins work, Press Release 20 October 1995. xiv Hawk and Owl Trust personal communication, 26 October 1999. 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Guest Paulo Posted December 12, 2006 Report Share Posted December 12, 2006 It would never work anyway not with your name being in that garish fancy fancier yellow!!!!!!!!!!!!! My eyes hurt ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D Get some racers ;D ;D ;D You can shout abuse at them when they fail to trap its a great stress buster lol Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stevebelbin Posted December 12, 2006 Report Share Posted December 12, 2006 hows your new hen anyway stev got her cleaning out yet? The last one I was seeing hated pigeons :o :o scared of them and that like they were going to attack her or something She likes to look at them from the end of the garden, thats about it LOL!!! She hasnt moaned about them yet, so its looking up LOL. Although I bet when racing starts next year and I want to race a few - then the moaning will start : : : Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sparrowhawk Posted December 12, 2006 Report Share Posted December 12, 2006 Yes, but there is an upside..... peregrine numbers are increasing in lowland UK Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Paulo Posted December 12, 2006 Report Share Posted December 12, 2006 who would win a fight between a peregrine and a bear? Or sparrowhawk and Mr T? At least she'll come in the garden steve kristy wouldn't come past the gate in case one flapped its wings at her she must have had a bad experience as a kid or something. Maybe a seagull took her ice cream!!!!!!!!!!!!!! ;D ;D Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stevebelbin Posted December 12, 2006 Report Share Posted December 12, 2006 Peregrines need wiping out - along with sparrowhawks HaHa (changed this paul as it looked like I was saying women needed wiping out LOL) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Paulo Posted December 12, 2006 Report Share Posted December 12, 2006 was going to say thats a bit strong lol has she been giving you a hard time lol I've found the ultimate weapon against hawk attacks around the allotments. You simply play some really crap music like Rod Stewart when the pigeons are out and it repels them away Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stevebelbin Posted December 12, 2006 Report Share Posted December 12, 2006 I was gona say how I like to get rid of them - but you never know whos watching LOL LOL Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wiley Posted December 12, 2006 Report Share Posted December 12, 2006 i was in tenerife and thats how a guy used to trap his birds in just stuck on a song they come in like bullets Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
peregrine Posted December 12, 2006 Report Share Posted December 12, 2006 surely you're not condoning illegal actions on you site? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Paulo Posted December 12, 2006 Report Share Posted December 12, 2006 couple of lads on our allotments keep birds of preys fully licensed and all that. one of them came around to tell everybody his hawk had escaped and asked us to keep an eye out for it. He's one of the hardest blokes in Durham so we all just had to smile and promise we would. I just started laughing I couldn't help it "pointed to my birds in the basket and said I keep pigeons and you expect me to haaaaaaaa are you taking the wee......... he saw the ironic side as well and started laughing. Dunno if he got it back or not through. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stevebelbin Posted December 12, 2006 Report Share Posted December 12, 2006 Why would it whind you up to see the aftermath ?? This was for peregrine LOL Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Paulo Posted December 12, 2006 Report Share Posted December 12, 2006 surely you're not condoning illegal actions on you site? was illegal about rod stewart I know he's bad but I didn't know they had banned him hopefully chico will be next. Stevebelbins taking the urine lol normally means a joke Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Paulo Posted December 12, 2006 Report Share Posted December 12, 2006 has anyone noticed the 2 new members peregrine and sparrowhawk.are they actually pigeon fanciers or the RSPB watching our site? just thought like you two will never makes spies will you filling in your profiles like that. Don't think jason bourne is ready to retire yet Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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