Future of the Sport - What can we do?

[mealybar]

I'd like to promote the discussion of ideas to improve, promote, and encourage people to either stay in, or take up the art of pigeon keeping, and perhaps more specifically pigeon racing.

 

Please do not post political items that may take this topic in a different direction; if these items are posted; please refrain from replying to them with similar comments. E.g. You may feel that the adoption of ETS will help the sport; indeed it may, but this isnt a topic for ETS to be discussed.

 

Motivation

I'm the webmaster of this site, write a Young Fanciers column in the BHW and (try to) play an active role in making people aware that there are ideas out there, and that they can be implemented successfully for the better of our sport. I'm not writing the previous to receive a pat on the back; I wanted to show that I wish to take some of the ideas posted in reply to this topic to the RPRA, and others for discussion, and hopeful implementation in order to provide a slightly brighter future for our sport than the annual compound 10% loss of membership suggests.

 

To start the debate may I suggest what; role, improvements or changes should be sought to one loft racing to better the future of the sport...

[jimmy white]

ONE LOFT RACES IN MY OPINION NEED EXPERT MANAGEMENT ,LIMITTED BIRDS ,AND PLENTY ROOM ,, AT THE MOMENT MOST ARGUEMENTS ON THESE RACES ARE DOWN TO THE SAME OLD THING "MONEY" THE ROOT OF ALL EVIL, "GREED,"AS MANY BIRDS AS THEY CAN CRAM IN FOR AS MUCH MONEY AS THEY CAN GET..... I WOULD PERSONALLY LIKE TO SEE MORE ONE LOFT RACES WHERE ,NON FANCIERS COULD BE CONVINCED TO BUY AND ENTER BIRDS AT REASONABLE COST, FOR INTEREST, RATHER THAN BIG PRIZE MONEY,[THEY WOULD SOON GET THE BUG ]  SOME PEOPLE LIKE TO GAMBLE, SOME PREFER NOT TOO, I WOULD SAY THIS SHOULD BE SO , LET THE GAMBLERS GAMBLE , LEAVE THE NON GAMBLERS TO RACE FOR PRESTIGE,, IT WOULD BE THE OWNERS CHOICE, BUT MORE ONE LOFT RACES , LESS ENTRY FEE[ENOUGH TO COVER COSTS],AND NO MORE THAN 100 BIRDS PER ONE LOFT RACE,,,,,,,,,,BUT ITTL NEVER HAPPEN    ORWILL IT?

[rockinrick]

ONE LOFT RACES IN MY OPINION NEED EXPERT MANAGEMENT ,LIMITTED BIRDS ,AND PLENTY ROOM ,, AT THE MOMENT MOST ARGUEMENTS ON THESE RACES ARE DOWN TO THE SAME OLD THING "MONEY" THE ROOT OF ALL EVIL, "GREED,"AS MANY BIRDS AS THEY CAN CRAM IN FOR AS MUCH MONEY AS THEY CAN GET..... I WOULD PERSONALLY LIKE TO SEE MORE ONE LOFT RACES WHERE ,NON FANCIERS COULD BE CONVINCED TO BUY AND ENTER BIRDS AT REASONABLE COST, FOR INTEREST, RATHER THAN BIG PRIZE MONEY,[THEY WOULD SOON GET THE BUG ]  SOME PEOPLE LIKE TO GAMBLE, SOME PREFER NOT TOO, I WOULD SAY THIS SHOULD BE SO , LET THE GAMBLERS GAMBLE , LEAVE THE NON GAMBLERS TO RACE FOR PRESTIGE,, IT WOULD BE THE OWNERS CHOICE, BUT MORE ONE LOFT RACES , LESS ENTRY FEE[ENOUGH TO COVER COSTS],AND NO MORE THAN 100 BIRDS PER ONE LOFT RACE,,,,,,,,,,BUT ITTL NEVER HAPPEN    ORWILL IT?

 

i am with you jimmy m8  

[pigeonscout]

100 birds for a one loft race? Lets say the loft manager gets paid just £50 per day for 7 months that = £10,500 then you can add food, vets, training, race, adds, loft, etc. You would not have much change out off £15,000 but im sure it would be a lot more than that. So just to cover the cost would work out at £150 per bird and no prize money. I think I would rather enter a one loft race with 1500 birds for less money and a chance to win £100,000 + in prize money.

[pigeonscout]

I think clubs should make a team of their best 5 fanciers and the clubs race one another like pool teams dart teams football teams, etc., That way the good flyers in each club would get credit for winning from their club mates instead of what we see to often back stabbing.

[Guest]

Very topical. Scott Gibson has a letter on this in today's BHW.

 

He has entered 6 birds in Scotland's One Loft Race, in the name of schools in his native Boness.

 

Winnings split 50-50 between School funds and Scott.

 

Schools visit the loft, check their bird's progress on the web, maybe get to attend on the big race day.

 

 

[Guest jason]

I've been pondering on 'how to promote our sport' and me and the wife have decided to build a loft for our kids (they're only 7 and 5) but they're going to join our club as a partnership and give it a go (with a bit of help from the wife) so they'll be the youngest members of our club and hopefully they'll take up our great sport for life.

 

jason

[Guest]

;D thats excellent Jason , i hope they give u a a run for the money , best of luck to them & you .                                            andy   8)

[Guest jason]

Cheers mate  

 

jason

[Diamond dave]

Lets be realistic, the more birds - the bigger the prize money - the more interest.

The only horse race I ever bet on is the grand national - why? cos its the biggest race of the season.

Likewise if you want to attract non-fanciers, it has to be for something special. I am sure there is still room for up to ten "one loft races" up and down the country but I think each one needs to offer slightly different terms to suit different people. For instance the RPRA offer one bird for a hundred quid, I got 9 non fanciers from down the pub to chip in a tenner each and they had great fun following the bird but then it went awol before the last race, so it was a washout cos they never had a shout in the final. This year weve entered the Europa cos we get the option of three birds so at least we should be in with a shout in the final.(Hopefully).

These non fanciers love every minute of it, I give them a copy of the pedigree etc. and they go to work thinking (and telling everyone) that they have ownwership of a racing pigeon, just like its a racehorse.

Theres nine people (and their workmates) that know a bit more and have a genuine interest in our sport rather than just taking the p*ss out of the cloth cap.

 

[Ian Gill]

Hi Richard,

 

I dont think that  "One Loft Racing" has any real bearing on the future of the sport,it seems to be a game for those that can afford it, though there was a marvelous opportunity with the RPRA race which was sadly missed .They are a matter of choice as to whether you enter them or not and maybe its ironic that they were mentioned first because in 10 to 15 years time they might be the only choice left to those of us still in pigeons.

 

I know you have asked for this not to get political and I respect that but I dont see how any discussion about the future of our sport could ever fail to do so.You know me long enough now Richard to know that Im never afraid to speak my mind but on this occasion I will try to be as politicaly correct as I can  

 

Have we the time to forward thoughts and ideas to the powers that be in order for them to ponder over them, when fundamental changes need to be implemented at the very grass root levels and in double quick time.The way we race pigeons has to revamped completely and with the aid of todays technology brought into the 21st century.

 

I take it when you say your going to take some of the ideas back to the RPRA that means the Future of the Sport Committee??  Personaly I believe that such is the state of play now that it would take a FOS committee at every region and Fed/Combine level in the country to make the changes required.

 

How can we expect to attract and keep new members when droves are leaving the sport?? To attract new blood there would need to be something more appealing than what is presently the case,can you see the constant bickering and bitching being an incentive to anyone thinking of taking up pigeons or more of a deterent ??

 

The sport of pigeon racing is like a wounded animal with a 50/50 chance of survival and the vultures are circling above waiting to pick the very bones clean!!

 

Another irony is that the worlds latest information technology(though not in the present form) will prove to be the saviour of  one the oldest forms

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[jimmy white]

100 birds for a one loft race? Lets say the loft manager gets paid just £50 per day for 7 months that = £10,500 then you can add food, vets, training, race, adds, loft, etc. You would not have much change out off £15,000 but im sure it would be a lot more than that. So just to cover the cost would work out at £150 per bird and no prize money. I think I would rather enter a one loft race with 1500 birds for less money and a chance to win £100,000 + in prize money.

 

I ACTUALLY MEANT ONE LOFT RACES IN EACH FED WHERE NON FANCIERS COULD ENTER BIRDS , A LOFT MANAGER DOING IT FOR THE LOVE OF IT,,,, MANY FANCIERS REAR 100 YBS AND MANAGE TO PAY THERE KEEP AND PAY DUES , AND SOME DONT EVEN WORK, BUT THERES NOWT WRONG WITH THE GAMBLERS HAVING A £500 POOL IF THEY WANT TO RACE FOR MONEY ,, BUT IT GETS NON FANCIERS IN TO THE SPORT , WE ALLWAYS USED TO HAVE PRIVATE £100 POOL IN NATS , 27 IN IT JUST IN THE LOCAL FEDS WHERE YOUR RACING FOR £2700 RACING AGAINST 26 BIRDS IN YOUR OWN AREA , I HAD WON IT MYSELF 3 TIMES ,,NOT BAD ODDS ,,, BUT THE POINT BEING YOU DONT HAVE TO BET TO BE IN IT,ENTRY MONEY WOULD SOON PAY PRIZE MONEY PLUS YOU WOULD BE IN THE FED RACING RESULTS AS WELL , AND MAYBE EVEN GETTING FED PRIZEMONEY TOO, POOLS TOO IF YOU WISHED TO POOL

[westy]

the councils should support the sport and make schools know about racing pigeons and do exhibition days with them.

[Ian Gill]

Hi Richard,

 

I would like to hear any ideas that you may have regarding this topic,I know your busy but if you get time it would be appreciated.

 

Thanks

Ian

[juan de winne]

We've got 2 entries into the rpra one loft race this year, One for my kids school - they get all the winnings ( fingers crossed ) and the other one is a 50/50 venture with the head teacher for children from underpriveledged backgrounds , a programme which she is involved in.

When we approached her she was over the moon , it's the greatest teaching aid the school has ever been involved with . The notice board has a whole section entitled guess whats coming to our school , and the kids are invited write down what they think the surprise is , various clues are provided but no one has guessed it yet. We are currently shooting a video showing the youngsters from eggs to weaning and what happens over a race weekend .then we are going to show this to the whole school - taking in some of our birds to show and then they are going to be told about the one loft race , there's a competition planned to name the birds etc.

the head has us giving weekly reports on the birds progress she's really positive about the whole thing because it takes in all the sciences, maths , history and geography.

[mealybar]

I think clubs should make a team of their best 5 fanciers and the clubs race one another like pool teams dart teams football teams, etc., That way the good flyers in each club would get credit for winning from their club mates instead of what we see to often back stabbing.

 

Pigeonscout - I think this is a direction that the sport should move in. At the moment it is very much an individual game, every-man-for-himself. A problem would be in the introduction of the scheme - I did some preliminary work on implementing a leader board system for our mini-sites (on pb) last year; club against club in the federation, fancier against fancier in the club (with leagues).

 

Very topical. Scott Gibson has a letter on this in today's BHW.

 

He has entered 6 birds in Scotland's One Loft Race, in the name of schools in his native Boness.

 

Winnings split 50-50 between School funds and Scott.

 

Schools visit the loft, check their bird's progress on the web, maybe get to attend on the big race day.

 

 

Brilliant work by Scott. The RPRA race was initially setup with free young fancier, and school places for the first year (golden jubilee) – it was initially conceived as a one year project. At present they give each region 2 free places for schools to participate. Personally I think with the RPRA race we've got away from the reason it was setup, and the fact that it brings a lot of revenue in has clouded this direction. When discussing the birds for schools, I was told that regions can purchase further birds, but there usually isn’t the demand. This wasn’t the pro-active promotion of the sport that I expected; and the sooner the one loft race is run again as a promotion of the sport, the better.

 

I think One Loft Racing can become at least central to changing the public’s opinion of pigeons, pigeon racing and pigeon fanciers. I mean even within the sport the demand for one loft racing is overwhelming - the RPRA race sold 1,035 places in less than 3 weeks of opening.  An idea that I approached the Future of the Sport Committee (RPRA) was to provide a number of birds and sell them, or a share of them to the general public, much like buying a share in a racehorse. This creates a number of new people who are aware of the sport, if not actively involved in keeping pigeons. So I am planning to implement this idea through Pigeonbasics this coming season.

 

New technology has to be the key in brining young blood into the sport. That doesn’t necessarily mean the adoption of ETS (although ETS could bring its own range of options to the sport), but for example, using the internet to promote the sport, even through the basic route as providing easily accessible information, targeted at different age groups. Going back to a one loft race; how easy would it be to create a website so that each entrant can view results for their pigeon, when they entered and exited the loft, a daily photo-/blog, comparing your bird(s) to them of a friends; all instead of having a list of static results that the user is to trawl through? Very, that’s how easy.

 

I think the underlying problem of any progress being made is a lack of understanding of what can be done, and what is being achieved in other niche hobby/sports – by the people who are in the positions to make the changes needed.

[juan de winne]

in one of the interviews in the british homing world a fancier stated that adverts on the sides of buses to promote the sport to the recently retired ( as well as the rest of the country)

I think this is a great Idea

[Ian Gill]

Hi,

 

Pigeonscout isnt far of the mark !! The only thing is that the same procedures could be used for all fanciers and this is where it might get "political"

 

Ets has to be accepted and the sooner the better !! With out it pigeon racing will be finished as we know it but with it we can take pigeon racing to a new level completely.Just think of the possibilites it can bring...they are endless!!!

 

With the development of the appropriate software pigeon racing could be organized fairly for the first in its long history and starting at club level..

 

Divisions could be implemented within clubs say, a "Premiership" for the top fanciers, a "First Division" for fanciers that have won and a "Second Division" for novices and new starters.

 

Each division within a club could compete with similar divisions from other clubs in a Federation/Combine and have  league tables and promotion/relegation similar to football.

 

Leagues could be run on a club basis using coefficients with each clubs winning fanciers velocity and the last mans being combined thus ensuring that the top fanciers would be encouraging the novice and new starter to perform better .

 

I know people will state the obvious about the cost of the timing units but who says we have to buy them straight of ?? We are in the driving seat in that regard as we have various companies busting a gut to get us to switch to their systems.Would they rather put out a few hundred units that fanciers use for training or put out 30,000 on a buy now pay later basis ?? I have been offered finance on items a lot cheaper than these clocks!!

 

As I said before the possibilies are endless but with out ETS we will never know.

 

I read with interest Richard about your dealings with the FOS committee because I to sent a proposal to them before the RPRA One Loft Race was set up,infact I corresponded with Peter Bryant at great length.

 

I wont go into the full proposal but the gist of it was..

 

A portion of the monies from entry fees be deducted for the "School Prize" (I used the figure of �20,000 in the proposal but this was just for demonstration purposes)

 

Each School would be allocated a pigeon with which to compete for the "School Prize" and they could have followed its progress via the internet/their own unique web page,loftcams etc.Pupils could have done projects on pigeons and loft visits could have been arranged etc etc..

 

Now with an entry of 1,000 birds that was a thousand schools participating and say the average school has between 700 to 1,000 pupils that would have been close to a million school children following a pigeon race!!!!

 

It would be impossible to get 1000 schools interested in this I hear you say ..well then, take into concideration that every school in the UK  is working within tight budgets and I would guess they would love the chance of winning �20,000 to go into the school funds.

 

I included in the proposal that the "School Prize" did not necessarily have to come from the entry fund if the committee did not like that idea,it could have been in the form of prize money/sponsorship from a pigeon company/companies ..after all its in their interests to that more people take up the sport,what use is there having a portfolio of products if you have no one to sell them to?

 

The figures I used where for demonstration purposes only and this was clearly stated in the proposal but imagine my surprise when Peter Bryant emailed and said the committee had felt the figures were unreasonable,why give a school 20 grand ?? (I still have copies of all the corespondence)

 

As regards to getting young people interested in this game ..forget it ,it aint gonna happen !! They have too many other forms of "entertainment" these days..

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[pigeonscout]

ETS did not bring an end to the sport in other country's that have it. I personally think it will help older fanciers to stay in the sport longer. The sport for me is about the fastest pigeon from A to B not how fast I can catch and clock it.

[jimmy white]

does anyone know of the school in the borders that actualy raced pigeons ,this was a few years ago now, but remember reading it in the paper..

 

my honest opinion is that pigeon fanciers are bickering too much, sometimes enough to put any new member off ,, i think we could all befreind someone , young or old to catch the bug, i can honestly say i have did this on a regular basis for years in fact just posted a while ago about the chap with the empty lofts , wouldnt start up again because of this ,,,,well he has now ;D ;D ;D , now im trying to convince him to get a computer ;D ;D ;D ,,every member is valuable nowadays

[pigeonscout]

I think we need to try and keep the fanciers we have in the sport make it more fun for them. How can we expect new members to join if the old members find the fun has gone?

I would be aiming my sites on the 25+ year olds to join the sport. Teens have no time and have a lot more to do with their money. We need the guys that are married settled have their own house and the money to put up a loft, etc. Kids need a loft clock feed money and someone to train their birds? unless you get the parents backing there is no chance.

[pigeonscout]

jimmy white your 100% right when you say befreind someone.

[markbrown]

I have come up with a few ideas recently:-

 

I am holding a small one loft race for the members of Earlestown FC (i can do it this year because new location, new loft which will have spare old bird sections etc, each member will pay £20 and send down some birds, week before 1st race if they have 2 left they can select their entry or add another £20 for the other, hope to be flying for approx £600/700 prizemoney and i have gained sponsorship of £300 for the 1st, 2nd, 3rd Ace birds. Also i have got £40 sponsored entry for 2 x birds in the name of "little crickets pre-school, Baydon, Hungerford". which should create some interest for the kids/teachers and hopefully win them some money.

 

We have also arranged a demonstration at the local school for later this month were i will go down and explain about racing pigeons, photos and hopefully a loft visit (we should have yb in the stock loft by then) 10/15 kids visiting and them following the progress of their birds in the Earlestown race

 

Also just been speaking to the charity organiser at work (MITIE PROPERTY SERVICES) and we will be holding a sponsored "RACE NIGHTS WITH A DIFFERENCE" in August/Sept this year. Obviously i will be racing a good strong yb team this year (hopefully approx 40/50) and we will choose a number of races and advertise within the offices at MITIE on a "draw out of a hat type basis" the ring numbers for the coming weekends entry, each bird will be £5 pound, lets say 40 birds @ £5 = £200 (we could divide £150 prizemoney £50 to the charity etc - i am hopeful of having ETS set up for training purposes so i can adopt this for the races. But imagine 40 x people who have no idea about racing pigeons taking part and showing a great deal of interest in this scheme.

 

Lets spread the word  

 

[Guest TAMMY_1]

 

GOOD WORK MARK

[Guest]

;D thats excellent Mark Brown , good on yer . youre a star mate , best of luck with the project & keep us all posted !                           andy  8)