colour theory

[DOVEScot]

The white in pic will it throw whites or coloureds

Interested because a fancier told that pure whites lines have no colour in the beak, we have been noting this in our birds and seems to follow they are right but would like a broader opinion please

[ALF]

WHATS IT PAIRED TO ??

[DOVEScot]

WHATS IT PAIRED TO ??

 

Sorry another white one

Fancier said if they have colour in their beaks they will throw coloureds

[Guest dogeon]

ive got a pair of pure whites and they throw one white and one mealy each time and they both have white beaks

[DOVEScot]

ive got a pair of pure whites and they throw one white and one mealy each time and they both have white beaks

 

Has the young any colour in their beaks?

[Guest dogeon]

 

Has the young any colour in their beaks?

 

the mealy's is slightly grey at the tip and the whites are white

 

[DOVEScot]

 

the mealy's is slightly grey at the tip and the whites are white

 

Seemingly the mealy is the one that carries the colour gene, it would be interesting in the next pairings of young whites, do you have any young whites for sale or have you bred them at all?

[Guest dogeon]

 

Seemingly the mealy is the one that carries the colour gene, it would be interesting in the next pairings of young whites, do you have any young whites for sale or have you bred them at all?

 

i only had a pair of whites to start and they've had 6 young (3 white 3 mealy)

and there not old enought to breed yet but going too.

but i have brought another pair but the hen has a black tail

but hopefully im going to be an all white racer

 

[DOVEScot]

 

i only had a pair of whites to start and they've had 6 young (3 white 3 mealy)

and there not old enought to breed yet but going too.

but i have brought another pair but the hen has a black tail

but hopefully im going to be an all white racer

 

Let me know how you get on please as Chickadee is trying to produce whites in a number of breeds

Cheers

[Guest dogeon]

 

Let me know how you get on please as Chickadee is trying to produce whites in a number of breeds

Cheers

 

yes i will keep you posted as they say down here "watch this space"

sue

 

[DOVEScot]

 

yes i will keep you posted as they say down here "watch this space"

sue

 

Thanks and I would welcome everyone elses comments on the theory please

[Guest Bonzo]

dovescot is chickadee only after pure white bird as you are welcome to a pair of young  like this one off me next year if you like

[DOVEScot]

dovescot is chickadee only after pure white bird as you are welcome to a pair of young  like this one off me next year if you like

 

She is trying to get different breeds in white, she has a few near white and trying to breed the colour out of them, she will get in touch with you herself

Thanks

[Guest Thunder Birds]

Do you know what colour the parents are? The first white pictured looks like a homozygous white to me - i.e. both white genes rather than one white gene and one coloured gene (heterozygous). If there are any coloured splashes in the plumage there is a chance they'd throw colours but the vasy majority would be white. This is the same with reds with black splashes

[DOVEScot]

Do you know what colour the parents are? The first white pictured looks like a homozygous white to me - i.e. both white genes rather than one white gene and one coloured gene (heterozygous). If there are any coloured splashes in the plumage there is a chance they'd throw colours but the vasy majority would be white. This is the same with reds with black splashes

 

Aye, more interested in the beak theory that a fancier pointed out even on pure white pigeons pairings :-/

[Guest beautyhomer]

Do you know what colour the parents are? The first white pictured looks like a homozygous white to me - i.e. both white genes rather than one white gene and one coloured gene (heterozygous). If there are any coloured splashes in the plumage there is a chance they'd throw colours but the vasy majority would be white. This is the same with reds with black splashes

 

What does a heterozygos white look like then.Iwas under the impression that white was recessive and therefore the pigeon would only be white in the homozygos state.If the pigeon only had one white gene it would be the colour of the other gene.

[Guest Thunder Birds]

Have you seen the Roland Janssens, Jos Thone or Mike Ganus whites with black splashes? - these are not really grizzles which have the blue influence rather than the white influence. May be wrong but this is from breeding experience - probably more complicated than I've gone into. I've had blues that are definately purebred paired to whites with black splashes and they have produced both blues and whites with black splashes (can be virtually pure white) - hence my comparison to red cocks with black splashes. There must be a range of dominance / recessiveness and not just purely one or the other? Soapy beaked whites should only breed whites if paired together in the same way as chocolate meulemans. The bird pictured first is not a pure soapy beaked bird as far as I can see?

[THE FIFER]

ive got a pair of pure whites and they throw one white and one mealy each time and they both have white beaks

 

pair 2 of ur mealies together and u can get pure whites,

 

 

[THE FIFER]

some of my whites are breeding ones with blue tails, and saddles, my young g/son had a favourite for years she always came down to him when he called peanuts, so he gave it the name peanuts, it was paired to purdey the white cock which took part in the Queens Golden Jubilee, my g/sons photo was in the front page of the old pigeon sport with peanuts, well the sad story is peanuts died last week, she was 14 years old, purdey is still going strong so will have to give him a new mate ,

[Guest beautyhomer]

Have you seen the Roland Janssens, Jos Thone or Mike Ganus whites with black splashes? - these are not really grizzles which have the blue influence rather than the white influence. May be wrong but this is from breeding experience - probably more complicated than I've gone into. I've had blues that are definately purebred paired to whites with black splashes and they have produced both blues and whites with black splashes (can be virtually pure white) - hence my comparison to red cocks with black splashes. There must be a range of dominance / recessiveness and not just purely one or the other? Soapy beaked whites should only breed whites if paired together in the same way as chocolate meulemans. The bird pictured first is not a pure soapy beaked bird as far as I can see?

 

I have seen these so called white grizzles but they appear to be black splashes and homozygos blue grizzles.These grizzles are known as "stork marked" because of the colour markings.

A lot of confusion arises from thinking white is a colour gene when it is actually a colour  modifying gene.A pure white cock bird will still have two colour genes.You cannot tell what they are without a test mating because the white masks them.

Red cocks with black flecks are heterozygous for blue i.e one red gene and one blue gene.

A combination of different pied markings would breed almost pure white pigeons especially when bred with grizzle. I think this is why these almost white birds do not breed as would be expected because they do not carry the white gene.

 

[DOVEScot]

 

I have seen these so called white grizzles but they appear to be black splashes and homozygos blue grizzles.These grizzles are known as "stork marked" because of the colour markings.

A lot of confusion arises from thinking white is a colour gene when it is actually a colour  modifying gene.A pure white cock bird will still have two colour genes.You cannot tell what they are without a test mating because the white masks them.

Red cocks with black flecks are heterozygous for blue i.e one red gene and one blue gene.

A combination of different pied markings would breed almost pure white pigeons especially when bred with grizzle. I think this is why these almost white birds do not breed as would be expected because they do not carry the white gene.

 

So are you saying a pure white strain always throwing pure whites is impossible because a white has two colour genes

 

[me]

The white in pic will it throw whites or coloureds

Interested because a fancier told that pure whites lines have no colour in the beak, we have been noting this in our birds and seems to follow they are right but would like a broader opinion please

 

"Me" thinks you should study breeding peas, see if you can get a hold of a guy called Mendel e-mail address. Saying that he might be died try a goggle search and I am sure it will become clearer!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

 

[Guest]

Mendelian genetics was one of the subjects I studied at school in Higher Biology course. Long time ago.

 

One of first books I bought on pigeon genetics was Breeding & Inheritence by Axel Sell - basically found it useless for my needs [racing pigeons] cos it was mostly colour genetics.

 

I've had a quick look at Axel Sell's book and the first lines on White are much as I'd remembered it: 'white is genetically one of the most complicated colourations and can result from different genes or combinations of mutants'.

 

The main point is white is not a colour, the genes work to prevent any colour pigment forming in the feathers, so the bird is colourless, white.

 

Have followed the thread, and  soapy beaks are usually associated with pieds, but not all pieds have soapy beaks. Grizzle bred for me had half-and-half soapy / black beak, maybe  unusual cos breeder actually pointed it out to me. So I am not sure that it has any bearing on the pigeon's colouring or what colour it is likely to thro. I 've a few pieds that have thrown non-pieds, and non-pieds that have thrown pieds.

 

Way back in 60's my dad's pigeons, few that threw whites - a few whites - so much so that our window cleaner spent more time watching my birds than cleaning mum's windows, and asked my mum if I'd breed him some whites. Do you know how hard that is?  I asked her. Can't remember for the life of me the pairings, that threw whites, but I'm sure there was a blue in one of them. So I seemed to know even back then that whites weren't straight forward ... especially jimmy white  

 

 

 

 

[Guest beautyhomer]

 

So are you saying a pure white strain always throwing pure whites is impossible because a white has two colour genes

 

No it is not impossible,if the only gene responsible for creating the whites is the recessive white gene then they will breed true.Problems arise when other colour modifying genes are present.This is especially true with racing pigeons because little thought to colour is considered when pairing.

Personally I would not pair

whites to pieds

whites or pieds to grizzles

grizzles to grizzles