Over - Crowding

[Roland]

Let’s have some feed back here.

I build a foot square box that is directly attached to a 18inch wired meshed cage to sit out in house my birds o a solid floor upon a drilled through wooden block of 4inch square x 2 inches high.

Yes the inside nest box is designed to weather bad weather, and is insulated so as the wooden interior is always of a warn nature Indeed I mean to run the line from North West to South East for this purpose too..

Of course they fly will out regularly on a daily basis. I intend to raise it about 3 feet off the ground and then have adjacent ones. My question is ‘How many can I place upon them, say 3 or 4, and How long can this line be before I become over crowed’?

Oh yes there will be a Canopy over head two foot higher and well over lapping. This will serve two purposes. One that the floors etc. are always dry, and two, for the birds to sit out and enjoy their extra freedom!

[Roland]

Now, due to ecomenising the room, I have decided to split them in half so as to put another row of wire mesh cages actually only 4 feet away facing each other. Yes there will be an air alley going up the middle, besides through the sides!

BUT now, I am really going to push my luck now via putting a 3 inch wire mesh cage around the whole lot of them.

Will they suffocate? Deteriorate due to lack of an effective air flow now!

[ch pied]

roly, seen somthing similar when i was a boy , and that wasen't yesterday,

pair of bro's came by a heave of old bee hive's ,they striped the inside's out ,

devided them to form one up -one down, small perch / lighting board, on each half,  stacked them 3 high , the rest was more or less a big avairy of chicken wire

[jimmy white]

im not quite with you on this one roland :-/ [maybe its me a bit thick ;D dont answer that ;D] but maybe explain in more detail , would be interesting to see your idea

[Roland]

Well surely the two main and basic formats that are essential to any healthy is ‘Fresh air, the fresher the better and a clean blood system.  Nothing can and is, or could be without these being in place and so.

We all know that pigeons flock, indeed every chance they have they get closer together. Even in flying!

So if the air is as good and as clean as it can be, then it follows that to make a bird really content is to allow and let it to live like it is natural to do so. A contented pigeon is paramount I believe.

If I could trap them to a tree, like many others I would.

Close proximity is also a natural part and partial to their’ well being.

Now how can any one really believe that pigeons will bugger off if some are too close!!! Eek it beggars believe! Now if one can’t employ a system, a loft set up with a good clean air circulation in a dry environment, then it is down to basic ignorance and knowledge, and furthers just a lame crutch for bad management or excuse.

I have often had my birds in first class fettle and had them burning home … only to be nowhere near on the day. Why? Well there could well be many reasons, but over – crowding is certainly not one!

When all else fails, - be like the Fire Brigade who say when they don’t know ‘Electrical fault’!

Likewise ‘Over crowding, it’s a myth too readily applied I’m afraid.

And in Nature, all animals, fish and birds etc. are primed to move etc. to stop incest breeding!

Yes many young birds – mainly hens it appear – move away from churches, the town centre etc. And why?!… I‘d suggest too much silly inbreeding! But definitely not over – crowding!

[jimmy white]

i agree with your post roland  i also beleive that ferals will do as you say, and for the reason you say, [ my own thoughts are that this goes back to the rock dove [which of course our modern day racer originated from]where the birds mostly lived in caves ,rocks etc, nature made so many of them disperse to make other coloneys , therefore cut out close inbreeding etc ,, no i agree with much of what you have said ,, but was just not getting the picture of the boxes , are these 12 in sq boxes built outside ? and the wire mesh aviary attached , i couldnt picture what you were meaning in your first post  

[Guest shadow]

neither copuld I what is wrong with your present loft set up to have to make these changes

[Guest]

Roland i heard of a guy down this way whos loft was made using "hit & miss" fencing design on back and sides also 4 ft up front with dowel top at front (hit & miss is when you use say 6"x1" boards leave a 3"or 4" gap between each board nail boards on oneside of 4"x2" then nail on opposite side of 4"x2" covering gap) he put small wire mesh to stop vermin i was told his birds were some of the finest ever seen unfortunately he did not race just kept as pets so cant tell you how they performed but he believed that thier superb health and condition was due to the amount of fresh air they got

[Roland]

neither copuld I what is wrong with your present loft set up to have to make these changes

 

Nothing Shadow, that is how my loft is set up. There contention that birds fly away through being over - crowde is just piffle.

If they are happy and contented, and getting sufficent clean air / water etc. then there is no  number that is over - crowding. I have seen Barry  with 8 x 6 loft of 12 pairs, and then the y / b's carry all before him for  years. It it now 12 x 8 because he dabble one year with widowerhood, about 10 years ago, and the size stayed same ... each year he keeps the safe amount, and no bird over four.

[Guest]

I can't get a clear picture in my mind of the proposed set-up either.

 

I can challenge the bit about about pigeons wanting close company tho; I have two sets of bar perches in my loft, one in aviary and one in YB end.

 

When YBs are just shifted, yes they are happy to get into a group huddle thing on the top two bars - 6 on a bar like sardines in a tin sort of thing.

 

Soon as they've matured a bit its a different story tho., that 6 reduces to 3 and they physically maintain a distance between them and the next bird on the bar, using warning nod of the head, beak and wing slap; if one of them decides to jump ship and go to a bar further up, the 3 birds on that bar go mental.

 

The hens are in the YB end just now; only 8 hens perch up on those bars, 2 per bar.

 

And the cocks get the run of the aviary just now; and its only 1 cock per bar in there.

 

So its not just air-space, its physical-space per pigeon too, according to what I see in my loft.

[Roland]

Soon as they've matured a bit its a different story tho., that 6 reduces to 3 and they physically maintain a distance between them and the next bird on the bar, using warning nod of the head, beak and wing slap; if one of them decides to jump ship and go to a bar further up, the 3 birds on that bar go mental.

Exactly, that is it, part and Partial of their very essential make up.

They live happier just out side of the 'Beak, and the wing menicing quiver.

Then they settle down again till one moves. That is actually the very best time to race a pigeon! A natural element used to good ability.

[Roland]

I have just, or rather I am doing, a reduction of a section that is being used for these 4 pair of stock birds ... cIt could have be 23 x 9 if I'd just moved a wired meshed  section of 4 feet. Have now a section of 9 foot for Fridge freeze etc, and baskets I have  a 4 foot by 9 hospital section all ready filled with nest boxes and another section. So they will be in a 9 x 8 when finished, far far to big. But will always be able to place a wired section across if I ever need to. Yes the air is dragged and blowing throughout all the time.

And yet I have 24 cock birds and 19 hens as I stated in another post!