Disorientation.

[sammy]

oh!!! i agree and it aint gonna get any better....

 

if everyone pulls together it will instead of sitting on their a---- waiting on someone else doing it  

[tomm1e]

Just picked 1950s as a possibility. Whatever caused the decline in hawk population - shooting, farming methods etc - pick a decade last century when pigeon racing was popular and the hawk population was high and see if there was a problem with yb losses. If hawks are the main cause then the problem should have been worse. Also, as mentioned above, some factors could be ruled out.    

[sammy]

Just picked 1950s as a possibility. Whatever caused the decline in hawk population - shooting, farming methods etc - pick a decade last century when pigeon racing was popular and the hawk population was high and see if there was a problem with yb losses. If hawks are the main cause then the problem should have been worse. Also, as mentioned above, some factors could be ruled out.    

 

good point lad ,but the 50s nature was left to fend for itself with no interferences we now have RSPB who breed and release them and were they are reared on pigeons which is a cheap way of rearing them so once they are out in the wild they only catch what they are used to eating  ;)and thats a fact

[tomm1e]

 

good point lad ,but the 50s nature was left to fend for itself with no interferences we now have RSPB who breed and release them and were they are reared on pigeons which is a cheap way of rearing them so once they are out in the wild they only catch what they are used to eating  ;)and thats a fact

 

That is also a good point, but I am pretty sure that peregrine falcons have viewed flocks of racing pigeons as easy targets since pigeon racing began.

[Merlin]

 

 

My own thoughts echos Gangsters,inso much as there are many and varied reasons for such extraordinary young bird losses,but I would reiterate what I said earlier,its an uncanny coincidence that most losses occour,when the Falcons are hunting in families,as for ets,we dont use it as yet over here, yet losses are compatible with anywhere else,just last weekends racing on this side was almost a disaster,return wise,the K Index Factor showed it was clearly dangerous to train/race pigeons for that time, yet racing went ahead.,I think the real reasons are much more complex and are now too well entrenched,to do anything about,once this win at all costs scenario is prevelent among young bird racing,we with the input of sky pirates,will always be taking one step forward,two back with young birds.

[nipper]

I have no idea what causes losses ????

But surely with technology one of these days we will be able to track the birds on their way up the road . After a while ,that should be able to tell us if its weather ,Percy, ect ect by the pattern of signals .

         The fact of the matter is ,untill we do track them we will never know what causes birds to get lost in such numbers !!

Once we do know ,we can do something about it .

 

              (If we are still racing pigeons in 2028 ) :-/ :-/

[Guest]

There are numerous reasons for losses of our racebirds. To blame one thing alone is crazy. Predators are a serious problem without a doubt, but what about the telephone wires spread all across the country? What about the greenhouse effect changing our weather patterns so badly you can't hardly predict the next ten minutes! What about the amount of poor quality pigeons, or the bad management of the poor quality fancier? What about the ailments our birds can pick up that affects the birds navigation? What about clashing, the disorganization of racing bodies on a raceday? What about the mobile phone transmitters supposedly creating havoc wth our birds senses?  I'm sure there are many, many more reasons.  

I can take on board what Ronnie states about the weight of the rings, though personally I doubt whether this will affect the birds that much! Food for thought though I must agree. As regards to Vic not knocking ETS, thats a moot point, pmsl! ETS is a clocking system to time our birds, nothing more. Pigeons have been getting lost since racing began, a long time before we all came into the game, and an even longer time before ETS came about. As stated, there are many reasons for losses of our birds, but ETS in my opinion, is not one of them.

[tomm1e]

I was watching some birds yesterday that someone let go about 50 of them flew round for good 15 minutes didnt seem to have clue where they were going eventually they cleared 10 minutes later they were all back again

 

That is something I have seen many times. My pet theory is that ybs have to be trained in a way that breaks the flock mentality and makes them think for themselves. In that group mentioned by rose it's not that the pigeons don't know how to find their way home the problem is that none of them are bothering to; they are all following each other. Perhaps releasing in smaller groups, 10 or maybe 5 is the answer. The smaller the group the more each pigeon is required to contribute. Just a thought.

[ChrisMaidment08]

my self and les were at chepstow watchinn liverpool wrexam letting g 7000 a hawk went into them they went every were including woods this accounts for a lot of no returns

[Guest Vic]

I started racing pigeons in the mid fifties, and  served my apprentiship in one of the biggest clubs in Liverpool at the time. There were just as many hawks in them days as there are now, and TEN times as many WIRES. But these days, every bird that comes back

injured, has been "HAWKED". As I have said previously, most birds of prey, especially percy, rarely misses when striking.  It was in the late fifties and early sixties, when the raptors went into decline, due to the excessive use of insectides.   But even when the raptors where strong, before their decline, any birds missing on the day were always there next morning. This has all altered in the last ten years or so, with many "disapearing" overnight. I still think it is down to electronic disturbance, and the more electronic devices that  our birds encounter, will surely see the end of pigeon racing as we know it.   Vic.

  

[Guest peter.j]

i must say i do agree vic,as said in an earlier post not just one item but a culmination of all of them ,even microwave ovens every household in the country must have and use one of these.....pete

[hotrod]

MY opinion is that hawks do play a BIG part of the losses .I think that if  percy strikes at lib then a disaster  happens but if it happens enroute after say 1 hour ? then i think they regroup and carry on although some hit wires/ lorries /trees anything to get away and you get a not bad race with say light losses

[hotrod]

IF it is mobile phones / wireless signals ,WHY is it you can get a great race one week next it,s poor ,does nobody use their mobile on the good week think about it.

[hotrod]

EVEN training rose good toss /good toss /good toss/bad toss all from the same place same weather ,it,s got to be percy especially with the young percy,s ouy of the nest now

[Guest]

EVEN training rose good toss /good toss /good toss/bad toss all from the same place same weather ,it,s got to be percy especially with the young percy,s ouy of the nest now

 

What about where this happens, and Percy is not a major issue? What is the cause then? We have sparrowhawks up here in Sunderland, but not much more in the way of larger raptors, but we still suffer from the good toss/bad toss - good race bad race scenarios, the same as all over the country!

[Guest]

I started racing pigeons in the mid fifties, and  served my apprentiship in one of the biggest clubs in Liverpool at the time. There were just as many hawks in them days as there are now, and TEN times as many WIRES. But these days, every bird that comes back

injured, has been "HAWKED". As I have said previously, most birds of prey, especially percy, rarely misses when striking.  It was in the late fifties and early sixties, when the raptors went into decline, due to the excessive use of insectides.   But even when the raptors where strong, before their decline, any birds missing on the day were always there next morning. This has all altered in the last ten years or so, with many "disapearing" overnight. I still think it is down to electronic disturbance, and the more electronic devices that  our birds encounter, will surely see the end of pigeon racing as we know it.   Vic.

  

 

Not evey bird that I get back injured has been hawked Vic. I get more injuries to the wires and TV arials than i do hawks. But I do get hit by sparrowhawks. You've been in the game quite a while longer than I Vic, so your experiences will be vastly greater than mine. Whilst I have a tendency to agree with the mobile phone transmitters issue, Hotrods point was a good one, how do we get good - bad races/tosses, when the masts are transmitting at all times? The only things I can see that have changed dramatically from the fifties to now, is feeding, treatments, and the quantity of imported continental birds! Maybe we should be looking closer to home?

 

 

[Guest]

What ever you think is the problem the bigest problem is yet to come as far as hawks go ,and i dont think any body has even thought about it ,well here it is .people are geting fed up of what ever is causing the prob and are leaving in droves no one is coming in to replace them ,also some of us are thinking why should i breed a shed load of young birds just to loose them and are breeding less  and less and just racing what is left , eventualy there will be a considerable  decline in the number of pigeons in the air  each year but more hawks each year ,you think the losses are bad now what do you think it will be  like when this startes to happen ,think about it ATB les.

[Guest]

Agree with you up to a point Les, but Age is a more threatening factor to our sport than Raptors. At your next meeting / basket night, look around your fellow club members and put 10 years on them. How many will still be racing in ten years? I dare not put 15 years on my clubmates. I won't have many, thats for sure! That frightens me for our sport more than an army of raptors!

[Guest Vic]

 

Not evey bird that I get back injured has been hawked Vic. I get more injuries to the wires and TV arials than i do hawks. But I do get hit by sparrowhawks. You've been in the game quite a while longer than I Vic, so your experiences will be vastly greater than mine. Whilst I have a tendency to agree with the mobile phone transmitters issue, Hotrods point was a good one, how do we get good - bad races/tosses, when the masts are transmitting at all times? The only things I can see that have changed dramatically from the fifties to now, is feeding, treatments, and the quantity of imported continental birds! Maybe we should be looking closer to home? Perhaps it may have something to do with the environmental changes that threaten us all!  The whole globe is becoming unbalanced, with many species , such as whales, dolphins etc. being  found floundering in alien places.

Something is definitely going on!

 

 

 

[Guest]

Agree with you up to a point Les, but Age is a more threatening factor to our sport than Raptors. At your next meeting / basket night, look around your fellow club members and put 10 years on them. How many will still be racing in ten years? I dare not put 15 years on my clubmates. I won't have many, thats for sure! That frightens me for our sport more than an army of raptors!

ADD the two togther ,how frightend are you now ATB les

 

 

[Guest Vic]

[Guest]

Perhaps it may have something to do with the environmental changes that threaten us all!  The whole globe is becoming unbalanced, with many species , such as whales, dolphins etc. being  found floundering in alien places.

Something is definitely going on!

 

 

........And there my friend I feel you could have hit the nail right on the head!

[Guest]

ADD the two togther ,how frightend are you now ATB les

 

 

Couldn't agree more! :'(

[Guest Vic]

 

It's not only pigeons that I'm losing! lol.

[ch pied]

the old man tell's me , percy and his friends were shot on sight in the war period , then DDT kept the no's down , but now the no's are way beoynd that of pre war , i have watched 1 percy scatter a lib of 3,000 bird's and it diden't make a kill , just the fact that it went through the lib was enough