PIGEON FANCIERS LUNG.

[Guest TAMMY_1]

I HAVE ONLY BEEN ON THE FORUM FOR A FEW WEEKS AND HAVE BEEN LOOKING TO SEE IF ANYBODY HAD TOUCHED ON THE SUBJECT OF PIGEON LUNG.I WAS DIAGNOSED WITH PFL.ABOUT 18 MONTHS AGO AND WOULD LIKE TO KNOW IF ANY OTHER MEMBERS ARE AFFECTED WITH THIS DISEASE AND IF SO HOW DO THEY DEAL WITH IT?.

[MsPigeon]

I am interested to know about it Tammy. What were your symptoms and how do you deal with it?

Carol

[Guest TAMMY_1]

HELLO Ms PIGEON, THE FIRST PROBLEMS I HAD WHEN I FIRST WENT TO SEE THE DOCTOR WERE A TIGHTENING IN MY CHEST AND A LITTLE SHORTNESS OF BREATH BUT I DIDN'T ASOCIATE THIS WITH THE BIRDS AS I HAD NEVER HEARD ABOUT PIGEON LUNG,AFTER THE DOCTOR DID ALL THE USUAL TESTS AND COULD NOT FIND OUT WHAT WAS WRONG I REFERRED ME TO THE CHEST CLINIC AT THE HOSPITAL AND AFTER GOING THROUGH ALOT OF DIFFERENT BREATHING TESTS AND BLOOD TESTS THEY FINALLY DIAGNOSED PIGEON LUNG. FIRST THING THEY SAID WAS GET RID OF ALL THE BIRDS. NO CHANCE OF THAT THEY WERE TOLD .HAD TO REDUCE THEM QUITE A BIT THOUGH.AS TIME WENT ON THE SYMPTOMS GOT REALLY BAD AND A LONG TIME WITH THE BIRDS MEANT A REALLY PAINFUL CHEST AND AN ACUTE SHORTNESS OF BREATH,WHICH MADE ME UNABLE TO CLIMB UP STEPS.THE USUAL COURSE OF TREATMENT IS TO TREAT IT WITH STEROIDS WHICH USUALLY HELPS ,BUT A PROBLEM WITH USING STEROIDS IS I AM ALSO ADIABETIC WHICH RULES OUT ANY USE OF STEROIDS.I DID A LOT OF WORK FINDING OTHER FANCIERS WHO HAD THIS DISEASE AND FOUND OUT THE BEST WAY TO GO AND NOW IF I ENTER THE LOFT I HAVE TO WEAR O LOFT COAT ,A HAT AND A SPECIAL HALF FACE MASK WITH REMOVEABLE FILLTERS AND THEY HAVE TO BE A CERTAIN TYPE TO PREVENT DUST AND PIGEON BLOOM BEING BREATHED IN. ALSO IF I AM GOING TO BE HANDLING A LOT OF BIRDS I USE GLOVES. I USE SEPERATE CLOTHES EVERY TIME I GO IN THE LOFT AND AS SOON AS I AM FINISHED WITH THE BIRDS I HAVE A SHOWER AND WASH THE CLOTHES I WAS USING IN THE LOFT. A LOT OF SHOWERING AND WASHING BUT THATS THE EASY PART. I HAVE TO ATTEND THE HOSPITAL EVERY 3 MONTHS TO REPEAT ALL BREATHING TESTS AND HAVE BLOOD CHECKED FOR A LEVEL OF AANTIBODIES . AT PRESENT MY BLOOD COUNT IS 200 WHICH IS EXTREMELY HIGH WHEN THE HOSPITAL COUNTS ANYTHING OVER 20 TO BE HIGH.SINCE I HAVE STARTED USING ALL THESE PRECAUTIONS MY BREATHING HAS IMPROVED BUT MY BLOOD COUNT IS NOT DROPPING MUCH.AFTER THIS SEASON IS FINISHED I WILL HAVE TO CUT THE BIRDS DOWN A LOT AS THE HIGH LEVEL OF ANTIBODIES DOES HAVE VERY SERIOUS LONG TERM AFFECT ON YOUR LUNGS AND IF NOT REDUCED SCARRING OCCURS ON YOUR LUNGS AND THIS CANNOT BE REPAIRED AND IN THE VERY WORSE CASE YOU WOULD HAVE TO BE ON OXYGEN REST OF YOUR LIFE SO THIS YEAR IS GOING TO BE MY LAST  FLYING A LOT OF BIRDS . I WILL STILL BE FLYING THOUGH BUT NOT IN BIG NUMBERS. HOPE THIS INTREST'S YOU AS SOME FLIERS SEEM TO GET BORED WHEN YOU GO ON A BIT BUT IT IS NOT SOMETHING YOU CAN EXPLAIN IN TWO LINES.

[Guest]

KNOW HOW YOU FEEL TAMMY I HAVE IT BUT NOT AS BAD AS YOU GOOD LUCK

[MsPigeon]

Thank You for shareing Tammy, I have a friend who insists that he does not have pigeon lung but the symptoms sound the same and he has just been put on oxygen.  :'(

[bewted]

my best advice;;;; open up the loft to more ventilation and circulation of air,priority.  look at the writings of OLD HAND on this subject,,,,,AND I HAVE ASTHMA!!!!!

[Guest TAMMY_1]

BEWTED  IF I OPENED UP THE LOFTS ANYMORE I WOULD ONLY HAVE A ROOF SITTING ON FOUR POSTS. I HAVE TWO MESH AVIRIES AND THE BIRDS SPEND MOST OF THE TIME IN THEM EXCEPT WHEN THEY ARE PAIRED ON AND SITTING NESTS. LOFTS ARE WIDE OPEN AT THE FRONT WITH WIRE MESH,MESH DOORS AND PLENTY LOFT LOUVRES ON ALL SIDES AND OUTSIDE DOORS, I HAVE IONISERS IN EVERY LOFT WHICH HELPS GREATLY WITH DUST AND I HAVE VENTILATION CHIMMNEYS AS WELL AND ITS HARD TO TRY AND KEEP LOFTS DRY WHEN WE GET 6 MONTHS SNOW AND 6 MONTHS RAIN. GOOD SCOTTISH WEATHER AT IT'S BEST.

[Guest TAMMY_1]

MsPIGEON    I THINK YOU SHOULD SHOW YOUR FRIEND MY ANSWER AND INSIST HE GOES TO HOSPITAL FOR THE TESTS AS I HAVE TOLD YOU THE OUTCOME IF YOU DO NOTHING .HOPE HE LISTENS TO YOU.

[MsPigeon]

He has been to doctors and specialists and hospitol. But like I said I think he is not telling me the truth. He just says his lungs are clear and he is on oxygen because he does not have enough oxygen count in his blood. But does not know why.

[bewted]

1 point,,,,,wire mesh on front of loft will not move or circulate air properly,with old hands method it does,but,if birds sitting in aviary,could they be telling you something you dont know,only a suggestion!!!

[Pompey Mick]

If you have a well ventilated loft I would do away with the ionisers. When I had one I found that far from doing away with the dust it just sticks to the nearest surface, To use ionisers correctly you need to wash down all surfaces regularly. The dust seems especially attracted to metal wire mesh  forming a layer of fine dust on it which is easily disturbed by touch. With good ventilation the dust will exit the loft with the airflow, with ionisers it will accumulate on all available surfaces.

[Guest TAMMY_1]

Ms PIGEON A LOW BLOOD OXYGEN COUNT WAS ONE OF THE SYMPTOMS I FORGOT TO MENTION AND MINE HAS VERY SLOWLY INCREASING SINCE PROTECTING MYSELF. DID HE TELL THE HOSPITAL HE KEPT BIRDS BECAUSE AT THE START I  NEVER SAID I KEPT PIGEONS AND WASTED A LOT OF TIME HAVING DIFFERENT TEST UNTILL THE SPECIALIST ASKED IF I KEPT PIGEONS AND SHE WASN'T VERY HAPPY WHEN I TOLD HER I DID AND SHE SAID WE COULD HAVE SAVED A LOT OF TIME IF I HAD SAID AT START I HAD BIRDS, HAS YOUR FRIEND TOLD THE HOSPITAL HE KEEPS BIRDS ? AS I SAID THIS IS NOT THE FIRST THING CHECKED FOR HERE.

[Guest TAMMY_1]

BEWTED    BIRDS SIT IN AVARY BECAUSE I LOCK THEM IN IT NOT BECAUSE THEY WANT TO. WHERE THE AVARIES ARE THEY GET A LOT OF WIND AND RAIN SO THE BIRDS WERE NEVER INCLINED TO SIT IN THEM FOR LONG  SO THAT IS WHY I LOCK THEM IN. THANKS ANYWAY.

[Guest TAMMY_1]

THANKS FOR THAT TIP POMPEY MICK NEVER HEARD THAT ONE BEFORE SO WILL TRY THAT BUT NOW THERE IS NEVER REALLY A LOT OF DUST AS WHEN THE BIRDS ARE ALL OUT I USE A GARDEN VAC IN THE LOFTS AND THIS REALLY DOES CLEAR OUT ALL THE DUST AND FEATHERS { AND ANY BIRDS THAT DONT GO OUT } AND THE GARDEN VAC IS A MILLION TIMES BETTER THAN ANY PIGEON HOOVER YOU CAN BUY AND ITS ONLY DRAWBACK IS THE NOISE BUT THIS KEEPS THE BIRDS FLYING WELL THOUGH.

[Pompey Mick]

Have you a long hose on your garden vac? The filters are not very fine in these types of cleaners and it could be exposing you to very fine dust being expelled from the machine in a very fine agitated cloud.

I suffer from lung problems and when I am doing a lot of work in the loft I wear an Aircap mask which pumps filtered air over your face beneath a visor, bit chilly in Winter though.

[Guest]

Pigeon fanciers lung is an allergy rather than a disease, and is confirmed by a blood test.

 

My understanding is that sufferers should get rid of their pigeons, or adapt the loft to 'rabbit hutch' or aviary type buildings.

 

Kinda prided myself in my own ventilation until a clubmate who suffered from pfl visited me and told me he could 'feel it' inside my loft and told me I needed to improve the ventilation by opening up even more.

 

Incidently, the guy is unique in that he suffered pfl, suffered lung damage from it, but is now immune to it. He still has his pigeons, in a conventional loft.

 

At club marking, he'll do the ringer, but as he is still unable to handle pigeons a lot and remain OK, he doesn't put the birds through.

 

 

[ray]

tammy  i suffer with pfl and was told to get rid of the birds, but instead i opened my lofts up and have loads of ventilation, but the main thing and ive had all the masks but still cough my inside out all night when i went home, until i bought a bradwest 2 mask and its the best 100 quid ive ever spent i breath better no coughing no pains in the chest, so if this is the mask you haven't got do your self a favour buy one worth every penny all my mates laugh at me most of them are coughing and barking now and they say its to late for me, let me tell you its never to late.

[debonair.pidjin]

My father has a serious PFL and can only go in the loft wearing an Aircap mask. I also have "some" PFL that I feel after I don't have contact with pigeons for about 2 weeks. When I get back to them I have the PFL symptoms(cough like hell, fever, tight chest), but they go away if I continue to be exposed to the birds every day.

 

I use the Aircap(model 4) only when I clean the loft because the pigeons are very scared when they see me with the mask on (and I thought I was uglier without it).  ;D I use a simple 3M model mask when I feed them or catch them for the races = lots of wing flaps = dust in the air.

[rockinrick]

i am an asthmatic does this mean i am more likely to get pfl as i have been in the racing environment and  had birds for last 20 yrs ,, i jus put tight chest down to asthma ?

 

 

any info appreciated rockinrick  

[Guest TAMMY_1]

BRUNO   I DONT UNDERSTAND WHAT YOU MEAN  WHEN YOU SAY YOUR FRIEND IS IMMUNE FROM PFL AND THEN YOU STATE HE STILL CANT HANDLE BIRDS AND BE SAFE.  ONCE YOU HAVE LUNG DAMAGE  KNOWN AS SCARRING THERE IS NO CURE AND THE DAMAGE IS IRREVERSABLE, YES PFL IS CLASSED AS AN ALLERGY BUT ONCE IT HAS AFFECTED YOUS LUNGS IT IS CLASSED AS A DISEASE.YOUR UNDERSTANDING IS ALSO CORRECT YOU ARE MEANT TO GET RID OF YOUR BIRDS, COULD YOU  !

[Guest TAMMY_1]

HELLO ROCKINRICK ASTHMA AND PFL. ARE TWO ENTIRELY DIFFERENT THINGS AND ARE IN NO WAY RELATED BUT I WOULD ADVISE ANYBODY THAT HAS CHEST PROBLEMS AND KEEPS BIRDS TO GET A BLOOD TEST DONE FOR PIGEON LUNG.

[Guest TAMMY_1]

HELLO ROCKINRICK ASTHMA AND PFL. ARE TWO ENTIRELY DIFFERENT THINGS AND ARE IN NO WAY RELATED BUT I WOULD ADVISE ANYBODY THAT HAS CHEST PROBLEMS AND KEEPS BIRDS TO GET A BLOOD TEST DONE FOR PIGEON LUNG.

[Guest]

BRUNO   I DONT UNDERSTAND WHAT YOU MEAN  WHEN YOU SAY YOUR FRIEND IS IMMUNE FROM PFL AND THEN YOU STATE HE STILL CANT HANDLE BIRDS AND BE SAFE.  ONCE YOU HAVE LUNG DAMAGE  KNOWN AS SCARRING THERE IS NO CURE AND THE DAMAGE IS IRREVERSABLE, YES PFL IS CLASSED AS AN ALLERGY BUT ONCE IT HAS AFFECTED YOUS LUNGS IT IS CLASSED AS A DISEASE.YOUR UNDERSTANDING IS ALSO CORRECT YOU ARE MEANT TO GET RID OF YOUR BIRDS, COULD YOU  !

 

Last question first (easier?) NO. That's why I'd be looking to improve or change the loft environment, and take advice from fellow-sufferers.

 

Willie said he'd a shadow (scarring) - he was also told by the medics that he's unique in that he has developed immunity to pfl. I take it that he has developed a very high tolerance to 'pigeon dust' and that exposure won't do further damage to his lungs.

 

But as his lungs have already been damaged, (scarring) he still suffers some discomfort if he handles the birds a lot ... and that's why he won't put birds through on marking nights, but remember he's inches away from them at the ringer. Another member who also suffers puts them through OK .. but always wearing an ordinary face mask.

 

The main reason I mentioned 'allergy not disease' is because I was corrected by Dr Phil Lynch who is a member of the Pigeon Fanciers Lung Trust, after asking him a question on 'pfl disease' for another member. Its academic to a sufferer like yourself, but telling someone else that pfl is an allergy just like 'hay fever' or asthma or eczma or psoriasis is less frightening than telling them it is a disease ... people tend to think 'will I catch this' if its a disease, while an allergy is more of a personal thing, 'unique' to your own particular makeup.. and you can't catch it off another person.

[Guest]

HELLO ROCKINRICK ASTHMA AND PFL. ARE TWO ENTIRELY DIFFERENT THINGS AND ARE IN NO WAY RELATED BUT I WOULD ADVISE ANYBODY THAT HAS CHEST PROBLEMS AND KEEPS BIRDS TO GET A BLOOD TEST DONE FOR PIGEON LUNG.

 

 

Just to follow on from my previous post, Tammy and Rockinrick.

 

Asthma and pfl are both allergic reactions to an irritant ('dust') which the body cannot tolerate.

 

Asthma is more general reaction, triggered by various things like dust mites (in ordinary household dust) or grass pollen or tree pollen etc.

 

PFL is a specific reaction triggered by exposure to pigeon proteins  e.g. feathers, droppings, bloom etc.

 

As 'a reaction' is your body's way of warning you that you've a problem, you should always heed that warning and try to avoid the trigger.

 

 

[Guest TAMMY_1]

 

Last question first (easier?) NO. That's why I'd be looking to improve or change the loft environment, and take advice from fellow-sufferers.

 

DO YOU MEAN EASIER FOR ME OR YOU ?SINCE I WAS DIAGNOSED WITH PFL I TOTALLY CHANGED THE STRUCTURE OF THE LOFTS,I CONTACTED AS MANY PEOPLE I READ ABOUT OR KNEW THAT HAD PFL, I SPOKE WITH LES PARKINSON[bHW],KEITH TURNBULL[bHW] AT CONSIDERABLE LENGTH,STILL DO,I SPOKE WITH DR GAVIN BOYD WHO HEADED THE BFMR. AT GLASGOW AND I WAS PUT IN CONTACT WITH HIS SON WHO HAS TAKEN OVER FROM HIM, [ HIS FATHER IS RETIRED BUT HE STILL ATTENDS THE STAND THE BRITISH FANCIERS MEDICAL RESEARCH HAVE AT BLACKPOOL ]AND BECAUSE OF MAKING THESE CHANGESTO THE LOFT AND FOLLOWING THE ADVICE FROM THESE PEOPLE, AS I SAID BEFORE THERE HAS BEEN IMPROVEMENTS HEALTHWISE.