every year the same

[Guest VINNIE]

hi i just wondered what the members thought each year fanciers are being offered new products to enhance their pigeons condition my question is do we need them all what has changed from the years of when our fathers raced in the 60s and 70s i remember what my uncle told me he used he feed on tic beans ,made a seed himself of wheat ,red dari ,white dari ,millet,and crushed oats,he used viola tea and also johnsons tonic in the drinker ,cabbage soaked in salt a finger full of hemp/linseed mix also homoform they were top flyers in national in the 50s and won well at all distances in club level in 60s and 70s at all distances breeding only the strong survived they would'nt worry what the bird was bred out of if it went ill it was in the ground, do you think some fanciers now reach for the medicine or product bottle because of big money spent on birds ,just like to mention when my dad came home from the war he spent around £300 at the late logans clearence sale but he still put the weak ones in the ground.dont get me wrong my dad would have changed with the times because he liked to compete but not too sure he would have reached for most of the things on offer , just wondered what the members thought as when you look in the weeklys the amount of products on offer and the price of things would this put the newcomers to the sport off in joining the sport this is just a general question not directed at any indivual to what members think why the sport has changed over the years regards vinnie

[retired]

Good post Vinnie.

 

There is some good products on the market but in my opinion these are few and far between with the majority being utter rubbish with an inflated price as the manufacturers and suppliers know the higher the price the more convinced we will be that the product makes a difference.

 

For the first time in years i actually get more products i use from Asda than from a supplier of dedicated pigeon products.

[OLDYELLOW]

i think your father would of seen through the rubbish on the market and may of altered slightly but most of the products your father used are still been used to great effect , a great fancier once told me nothing out of a bottle other than a drug will make your birds fly any faster , just make sure your birds are healthier and fitter than your compeditors  

[Guest]

Very true Vinnie. I see the main problem today is pigeons are dosed up with all sorts of sh*te and they never get a chance to build up a natural immunity to any illness. I have kept pigeons for years and have a second loft 30 yards from my racing lofts in which I keep fancy pigeons. The fancies never get treated for anything other than worms, canker and cocci treatment before pairing up and never seem to encounter the problems that the racing pigeons have. Had the YB sickness last season in race birds but not a sign of it with the fancies.

[Guest REDFOXKRAUTHS]

I had it explained to me at blackpool thats things are "hyped up" and pricey, when in fact your buying say garlic powder, from say gem for £10 a pot when you can buy 6 FRESH cloves of garlic for a £1 i no what i would choose!

[joe61]

good post vinnie, we at Timbarra use only what we think helps benefit the birds,

 

calcuim in the water 1-2 a week breeding season and racing season only. plain water mostly

good sound mix , versa laga energy plus only no other mixes used.

peanuts and budgie seed used as a tit bit

Dog food flakes used to help maintain good vitamin and mineral balance. twice a week or when we want to give it.

black and pink minerals on dry dys only.

 

 

thats it. medication is not given , we have a strong sound family of birds that do not get ill,   so stress for us is non starter, no worrying in that field.

 

we havestrong birds and i think your father would have been the same with respect to building natural imunity within the colony. the best school is the old school as to never go against nature, and never treat blind or give to many sinthetic products.. wether from supermarket or pigeon shop.

[bobtail]

if your looking to buy cheep garlic why not go to a chinese food store you can get quite a good size bag for a few quid it is dryed and will keep for ages in an air tight jar just a wee tip.

[Guest IB]

In my early days as a fancier I was taught that winning with pigeons doesn't come out of a bottle.

 

30+ years later, in my early days as a member on here, it was clear that there was a doctrine / dogma that you had to regularly medicate pigeons to win with them. I believe that is part & parcel of the widowhood method (directly imported into the UK from Belgium) in which same birds are expected to race every week from beginning to end of the programme. In my early days as a fancier I was also taught that pigeons are not machines..... how times change.

[Guest shadow]

no winners ever came out of a bottle :)

[Guest cloudview]

i think its more the modern  day fancier that has it rammed down his throat , that you,ve got to treat to win , and now its a routine that they are afraid of changing , harry does it so i must  syndrome , if no body treated at all the birds would become stronger over time , the weaklings would perish , the strong survive , but i can,t see this happening unfortunatly

ive been a manual worker most of my life , never taken any so called supplements , and very rarlely visit doctor ,on another re vitamins ,once when i got achest infection ,the doctor never said now go home and take some multi vits

, after taking the medicine

i dont want propped up pigeons in my loft , they get over it or die simple as that

[wilkins]

velocity's are higher in the year books than they were years ago , 500 mile races have higher number of birds on the night than before as well

[thunderboult]

Very true Vinnie. I see the main problem today is pigeons are dosed up with all sorts of sh*te and they never get a chance to build up a natural immunity to any illness. I have kept pigeons for years and have a second loft 30 yards from my racing lofts in which I keep fancy pigeons. The fancies never get treated for anything other than worms, canker and cocci treatment before pairing up and never seem to encounter the problems that the racing pigeons have. Had the YB sickness last season in race birds but not a sign of it with the fancies.

hi lewanbob, i believe the problems you are having(ybs) is a result of using antibiotics, if you think that treating for worms,canker and cocci is nothing in your fancies i hate to think how much your are giving your racers. i'm not saying that in a nasty way just trying to be helpful.  i had a disscusion with a club member 2yrs ago about giving antibiotoics on a regular basis and he's had ybs last season also plus another member had some other serious problems with his old birds that spread to his young and killed about 40 birds.  i blame some of the films were these continentals are showing them treat before the races to give the birds a boost, with no thought to future complications in regards to immunity. i've seen the rewards for treating before hand but also the downfalls.  i started in 2004 and have had birds from here, there and everywere, i've not treated them and had no problems on the whole(had the odd yb look a bit scrawny and got rid of) last year i got them tested and was expecting to see things like canker,bit of respartory and what av you, but  when the results came back the only thing was worms in some.(i did then treat for that) but there was no diffrence in the general performance of the birds after i treated(they had won before and they won afterwards) so i don't think i really needed to treat and i won't go on treating in the future. the products i use are gem,colostrum powder from gem, garlic oil+garlic cloves, ultimate,aqua guard,b12 and honey. although not at the same time lol.

[just ask me]

all though losses have gotten a lot bigger but there are many opioions on that

 

only thing i would say is birds now are doing 60 mile a hour every week for 15 16 weeks in a row dont think this was expected of birds years ago although i would agree with the misuse of antibiotiocs but do remember these are not evil thing when used at the right time for the right cause they are a brilliant thing on what products to use well that a matter of opinion really

[retired]

no winners ever came out of a bottle :)

 

Shadow, must disagree with this comment.

 

There is plenty of winners (manufacturers)

 

 

[waltzer]

i think most of the time you need good pigeons and good man managment not all this crap on the market today ,all they have to do is stick a pigeon on the bottles are jars and there sold by the shed load its true what vallance said most you can get atthe supermarkets .

[Guest VINNIE]

hi some very good comments ,thank you for the replies the reason behind the post was due to financial reasons i was looking at what to use to breed a good sound youngbird looking at various websites and the pigeon weekly 1 i was spoilt for choice 2 after looking at their so called systems use this on such a day and this on another it would had cost me a fortune i didnt have so i have decided to go back to basics and use what i can afford i will try to post some pictures of my youngbirds when i wean them to show you if i succeeded , also i know races are a lot faster nowadays years ago you were lucky to get a bird home from some of the channel race points on the day now you get at least 10 home , but is it due to the bird or product are there ways of getting a bird fit and healthy without products  i would like to see and i might try it myself if i race again to use a system of yesteryear on modern day strains and see if they are just as fast without using any of the new products , i remember a succesful widowhood flyer  who never used plain water always a product in the drinking water a friend once asked him if he ever tried not using these products and he said why should i i am winning but he could have been wasting his money but he was happy . and he had the money. but what if he didnt have the money what would he have done leave the sport or find another way i think a good fancier will always find a alternative to suit his pocket and i think my mate would have done .like i said before just my opinion many thanks vinnie

[bobtail]

;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D

no winners ever came out of a bottle :)

what about newcastle brown i would say its a winner all the way

 

 

[jimmy white]

no winners ever came out of a bottle :)

 

this is the simple truth regarding pigeons ,

 

having worked with a  pigeon    supplement firm ,,  and seeing them collect £13.000 in one weekend , was truly amazed , especialy when the owner was mocking fanciers as" mugs" and of course laughing all the way to the bank, most of the so-called magic speed tubs were in fact glucose , bi-carb , based etc etc [off course with a lovely label and fancy  name] allthough i know  many top pigeon fanciers , i did note , that these fanciers never bought   food for thought

ive said this many times  , the three c,s will never come from a bottle,,, condition, contentment and control only my opinion