nanny forums?

[vanlink]

Recently I have experienced having a subject locked on a forum in advance of what may or may not be said that could be defamatory or not in the interests of the forum in general. Les Parkinson also wrote in his column that during his visit to the BICC dinner the subject of websites particularly chat rooms were a topic of conversation, why? Because he and many more believe that they bring the sport into disrepute. They are he says a tool for abuse to others within the sport and of no real benefit whatsoever to pigeon racing.  

 

I suppose that a forum can be used to either propagate rumours or clarify the truths. There is of course always going to be a risk of libellous statements being added to a forum. On this basis there should be moderators and a degree of control but how much is necessary so as not to ruin the whole forum experience? Perhaps sometimes it is easier for the politics to deflect from the act of pigeon racing and it is very important that some of the more out spoken amongst us be rained in. I Am probably guilty of being over zealous sometimes but I can say that there is no malice intended. This is a sport, which requires a certain amount of passion that sometimes spills off the pitch.

 

My questions to open up this debate are:

Should those whom use wealth to fund advertisements that contain untruths for manipulation of customers be allowed to continue unchallenged? Should people whom place themselves into an authoritative position and fail to act for any good be pressed for results? Should journalists whom hold the power of the pen be able to control a whole mindset? Do the sceptical not have a responsibility to warn, highlight and inform the gullible of a potential scam?      

 

And the other side of the argument:

Should someone be allowed to cause the collapsed of some ones hard toiled business with one careless unfounded throwaway remark?

Can it be kind to criticise our officials who work hard, very often unpaid, for all are benefits when most of us are too lazy to get off our backsides?

Is it right that our journalists be allowed to write without reproach for our entertainment or should they be hounded away for writing something we could have chosen not to read?

 

So over to you, what are the answers?

 

May be instead of locking risky subjects forums could introduce a fail-safe method, which would require the post to be read by a moderator before being shown to everyone.

 

[Guest Vic]

;D So sez Lez ? in your opening paragraph. The likes of these guys are only interested in pigeon racing,  to feather their own nests. Perhaps the pigeon forums can read in between the lines of these usuers and by doing so, avoid genuine pigeon flyers being ripped off. Talk about "I love me ! Who do you love?"  Never seen such a ponce in all my life. ;D  ;D ;D ;D

[OLDYELLOW]

funny parkys in partnership with a pigeon forum  :X :X :X :X :X

[Tony C]

Perhaps instead of the Homing World trying to make us believe alls rosy in the sport and instead gave us some investigative journalism it would put a lot of these rumours to bed

[Guest Vic]

> Another smart *expletive removed*, akin to Lycett! Peas in a pod.   >

[Tony C]

> Another smart *expletive removed*, akin to Lycett! Peas in a pod.   >

 

I take it Vic that he hasn’t yet conceded you were right ;D

[stan p]

if it hadent been for the forums would we have heard about k. james and other things

  that dont seem to make the papers

                                                      stan p

[thunderboult]

they don't mind them when they getting good publicity .

[Guest chrisss]

forums are a very important in all of this because they have no agenda,and no party line ,they cannot [most of the time anyway!!!]be bullied by "interested" parties into going their way,if you look at last years fun with that one loft race,how much of that would have come out if it was not for chat rooms,thats why certain interested parties dislike most chatrooms for,they cannot be controlled,by them[despite their threats of legal action etc]the only chatrooms these guys like, are the ones they control or can bully

[Guest Vic]

As Ste Patrick said at the time. Lycetts Van,denabeeles where only worth XMAS MEALS.  ;D    (or words to that effect) Yes, Vic made him squirm on his football knowledge.

         INDEED I DID!  He still wont tell anybody the correct answer  that Vic witheld until the eleventh hour,   by saying something like:- "There are some things in life that we don't have to disclose"  What a load of crap this guy is!  ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D  but  > > > > > >  PS. I dont know whether Cozzy, is on Basics, but I,m sure he will vouch for what Vic has said tonight.  Cheers.

[Guest]

Recently I have experienced having a subject locked on a forum in advance of what may or may not be said that could be defamatory or not in the interests of the forum in general. Les Parkinson also wrote in his column that during his visit to the BICC dinner the subject of websites particularly chat rooms were a topic of conversation, why? Because he and many more believe that they bring the sport into disrepute. They are he says a tool for abuse to others within the sport and of no real benefit whatsoever to pigeon racing.  

 

I suppose that a forum can be used to either propagate rumours or clarify the truths. There is of course always going to be a risk of libellous statements being added to a forum. On this basis there should be moderators and a degree of control but how much is necessary so as not to ruin the whole forum experience? Perhaps sometimes it is easier for the politics to deflect from the act of pigeon racing and it is very important that some of the more out spoken amongst us be rained in. I Am probably guilty of being over zealous sometimes but I can say that there is no malice intended. This is a sport, which requires a certain amount of passion that sometimes spills off the pitch.

 

My questions to open up this debate are:

1. Should those whom use wealth to fund advertisements that contain untruths for manipulation of customers be allowed to continue unchallenged?

2. Should people whom place themselves into an authoritative position and fail to act for any good be pressed for results?

3. Should journalists whom hold the power of the pen be able to control a whole mindset?

4. Do the sceptical not have a responsibility to warn, highlight and inform the gullible of a potential scam?      

 

And the other side of the argument:

5. Should someone be allowed to cause the collapsed of some ones hard toiled business with one careless unfounded throwaway remark?

6. Can it be kind to criticise our officials who work hard, very often unpaid, for all are benefits when most of us are too lazy to get off our backsides?

7. Is it right that our journalists be allowed to write without reproach for our entertainment or should they be hounded away for writing something we could have chosen not to read?

 

So over to you, what are the answers?

 

May be instead of locking risky subjects forums could introduce a fail-safe method, which would require the post to be read by a moderator before being shown to everyone.

 

Van Link, i personally find this a refreshingly intellectual post. A lot of thought has gone into what you have written, and a very interesting topic to say the least.

Answer 1. Without a doubt, no. Nobody should be allowed to use any form of media for corrupt purposes. As long as the truth is established, no witch hunting, just factual evidence, then in my opinion the bullsh!tters should be exposed.

Answer 2. Yes, as long its a legitimate claim, and not an attempt at persecuting people that they have a disagreement with.

Answer 3. No, factual evidence should be reported in an impartial manner, not just representing their own views and trying to brainwash the readership.

Answer 4. Yes, once again though, as long as its not a witch hunt by people with personal vendetta's. Facts & Truthfulness, people should not be scared of that. If they are, and cannot answer respectful inquisitive questions, stay way from them.

Answer 5. Definately not. We are all responsible  for what we say and do. We are lucky that our fore-fathers fought to give us the freedoms we enjoy today. But with this freedom comes responsability. A responsability to do things in the right way, not just to slander and be disrespectful in such a way as to cause people such harm to them, their family, their property, or their business.

Answer 6. Definately not. But it happens regardless. The one thing i have found in the pigeon game over the years is that all those who are actively loudest with their mouths to criticize, are always the quietest when the work is being distributed. Whats that old adage, empty barrels make the most noise!

Answr 7. Definately not. Back to the with freedom comes responsability statement. Report truthfull facts in an impartial manner. By all means, after the facts have been reported, have your say, your point of view. We are all entitled to that. But viewpoints should be balanced and respectful when you are controlling the pen. Having said that, we are all capable of being able to sort the wheat from the chaff, whose opinions to value and whose to discard. Those who shout the loudest to try and gain credability, who give or continually state self promoting propaganda to create an illusion of greatness, those are the ones to keep well away from.

 

In your opening statement you reference about people thinking these forums bring the game into disrepute. I am a member of several pigeon web-sites, and overall enjoy most of the pigeon crack. One site i am a relatively quiet member of i can see some reasoning into that opinion. Moderators having numerous IP addresses and membership names. Locking threads where people disagree with what they say, threatening warnings to those that ask questions, etc, then hypocritically appearing on other sites to create problems. But, on the other hand, i would be wary of taking on board opinions from someone who is merely out to make money out of our sport. Maybe they dislike the forums as they can't brainwash and make everyone believe that they are just an "honest Joe!" Whilst the abuse is a valid statement, as it definately happens. The mods are always having to cleanse threads. Arguments happen, it is human nature. The no use to the sport statement is rubbish in my opinion. May i refer you to a cracking recent post by a very good friend of mine, Blue Chequer Pied, regarding the pigeon forums being the perfect media in which to promote our sport. Read it through if you can find it. One of the best posts i personally have ever read.

In closing, your passion statement i agree wholeheartedly with. Its part of what makes this sport so great! I would disagree with having the mods "vet" posts before they are posted, for one the sheer scale of posts would make this nigh on impossible, and the poor mods would have full time jobs actioning such a colosal amount! lol! You seem to be a level headed person, with a refreshingly balanced viewpoint. I look forward to more of your balanced writings, well done!

[Guest Owen]

 

The benefit of forums like this is that we get to know what ordinary fanciers think about things. There are plenty spouting about things that they know nothing about. Dealers and Journalists have always needed watching. They have hidden agenders.

I see nothing wrong in discussing pigeon politics or even ordinary politics as it affects us.

If a Business Person is affended by something said, then they should know what to do. They always have to remember that they are there to provide a service and there could be a penalty if they get it wrong. Where a firm is giving bad service or cheating, they deserve to be exposed. I can think of one doing badly in the popularity stakes right now, and they have asked for what they have got.

Where I think there has to be control is if there is ever swearing or insulting behaviour. That would be the only bit of Nannying I would want.

The one thing about his forum that does annoy me is when we are advised by those who have'nt got a clue. A couple of week ago someone thought that contibutors should say what they have done. I am inclined to agree.

[Guest chrisss]

bloody brilliant replies both of them

[Guest]

My mate Paul's (Blue Chequer Pied) post.  

 

 

I would like to ask you all one question, How many of you think that the sport is in terminal decline? The answer from most would be yes. I would like to make a point relating to this site and other sites like it. We all have a responsibility to protect, nurture and promote the sport we all love. I have just returned to keeping pigeons after a 9 year absence and I missed the birth of these pigeon forums and websites. Anyone in this day and age that considers starting out in any hobby or are merely looking for information on a topic will not go and visit a local fancier or go to the library to loan a book they will visit the internet. The answer to everything now is 'stick it into google and see what it comes up with'. We are basically a shop window for new fanciers entering the sport wether we like it or not. I feel there is a responsibility on each and every one of us to do what we can to secure the long tem future of the sport otherwise there will be nobody for us to race against in the future.

Some of the stuff that goes on here on this site is deplorable and I hold my hand up that in the past I have let people get under my skin and I have reacted. In all honesty I should have let it go but I feel that sometimes things have to be said but all the personal attacks and taunting of people just to get a reaction is out of order. Potential new starters looking in on this are likely to run a mile and as I have said like it or not this is the biggest medium to attract new blood into the sport. Gone are the days when there was a pigeon fancier in every street and in every family to expose youngsters to the sport of racing pigeons. I applaud the likes of Ian Mckay and the work him and others are doing to bring pigeon racing into schools as most of these kids probably dont even know that pigeon racing exists.

Like it or not we all have a responsibility to act responsibly on here. There have been times when I have been extremely proud to call myself a pigeon fancier i.e when Ally Mac did all that great work for the Phoebe appeal and we all pulled together and some of the other charity auctions have had that effect also. On the other hand there are times when it is embarrassing to be assosiated with some of the bile on here, the taunting, the winding up and the baiting of people it is at times pathetic.

 

Take a look in the mirror, are you adding value or are you just being contraversial for the sake of it. We are missing a great opportunity here.

 

Paul.

[Guest chrisss]

The benefit of forums like this is that we get to know what ordinary fanciers think about things. There are plenty spouting about things that they know nothing about. Dealers and Journalists have always needed watching. They have hidden agenders.

I see nothing wrong in discussing pigeon politics or even ordinary politics as it affects us.

If a Business Person is affended by something said, then they should know what to do. They always have to remember that they are there to provide a service and there could be a penalty if they get it wrong. Where a firm is giving bad service or cheating, they deserve to be exposed. I can think of one doing badly in the popularity stakes right now, and they have asked for what they have got.

Where I think there has to be control is if there is ever swearing or insulting behaviour. That would be the only bit of Nannying I would want.

The one thing about his forum that does annoy me is when we are advised by those who have'nt got a clue. A couple of week ago someone thought that contibutors should say what they have done. I am inclined to agree.

 

the only thing that i would disagree with is that contributors should say what they have done,is that to say if you have not raced you know nothing?

[Blue Chequer Pied]

Hi Dave,

 

Thanks for the comments. I am now considering applying for copyright on my work  

 

All the best mate,

 

Paul.

[Guest spin cycle]

 

the only thing that i would disagree with is that contributors should say what they have done,is that to say if you have not raced you know nothing?

 

i agree ( although i take owen's point )...i think we need this 'mix'....if its just 'top flyers' A/ they'll just argue over who's the best and B/ it'll be boring. i also agree that this is a great way of getting people into the 'sport'....if we could just keep it civilised

[vanlink]

Not sure if I can produce a post like that again, been off work ill for a couple of days and the medication has had an affect on my vocabulary. I normally air on the side of humour but do find it difficult not to have a rant when I think injustice is being done of which there are lots in the pigeon sport. My passion probably lays more towards, how can we increase membership and stop the decline? The post has been inspired by some recent events and the little devil and angel sitting on my shoulders trying to force me to both sides of the debate so I thought I would throw it open to others and see where it went.

 

I know the reasons behind the unhappiness from some at the BICC presentation and why they mentioned it to Les. This was due to an unofficial account of a BICC meeting being written and published on a website. The committee took a great deal of offence to the article and a couple of replies by committee members were quite severe. They were very unhappy with the lack of control that they had over the original article.  

 

I have read some of the replies so far with interest, Blue Chequer Pied, fantastic post, no doubt about it, it almost needs to be our mission statement. Dicky Darky thanks for the reply not sure if its because you look like the grim reaper but you have pulled me towards the devil side of the argument. Without repeating what you have written I think that you, spin cycle, chrisss, Owen, Vic, thunderboult, stan p, Tony C, OLDYELLOW have pointed out what the forums are all about and why they are so unhappy with them. The establishment controls the BHW and so for many years there has been little accountability. Finally we are, through the amazing power of forums, finding a way to fight back. We are exposing the tricksters and conmen. We are forcing companies to make sure their products work. We are asking for the committee members of the RPRA to actually do something while they’re in office. I feel like Citizen Kane – Power to the people. I very much like CRISSS’s idea If at first you don't succeed call in an airstrike. Made me laugh.

[Guest]

Not sure if I can produce a post like that again, been off work ill for a couple of days and the medication has had an affect on my vocabulary. I normally air on the side of humour but do find it difficult not to have a rant when I think injustice is being done of which there are lots in the pigeon sport. My passion probably lays more towards, how can we increase membership and stop the decline? The post has been inspired by some recent events and the little devil and angel sitting on my shoulders trying to force me to both sides of the debate so I thought I would throw it open to others and see where it went.

 

I know the reasons behind the unhappiness from some at the BICC presentation and why they mentioned it to Les. This was due to an unofficial account of a BICC meeting being written and published on a website. The committee took a great deal of offence to the article and a couple of replies by committee members were quite severe. They were very unhappy with the lack of control that they had over the original article.  

 

I have read some of the replies so far with interest, Blue Chequer Pied, fantastic post, no doubt about it, it almost needs to be our mission statement. Dicky Darky thanks for the reply not sure if its because you look like the grim reaper but you have pulled me towards the devil side of the argument. Without repeating what you have written I think that you, spin cycle, chrisss, Owen, Vic, thunderboult, stan p, Tony C, OLDYELLOW have pointed out what the forums are all about and why they are so unhappy with them. The establishment controls the BHW and so for many years there has been little accountability. Finally we are, through the amazing power of forums, finding a way to fight back. We are exposing the tricksters and conmen. We are forcing companies to make sure their products work. We are asking for the committee members of the RPRA to actually do something while they’re in office. I feel like Citizen Kane – Power to the people. I very much like CRISSS’s idea If at first you don't succeed call in an airstrike. Made me laugh.

 

Van Link, once again a great post. Sensible words, passion, a balanced viewpoint, a geniune concern for the game in general, and to top it off, that little bit of essential humour. That is exactly what pigeon racing needs, not only the forums. On all of the forums, bar one, there are several people who's posts I always look for, yours is now added to my list of people who's opinion i value! Very refreshing indeed. A relatively short, but top quality thread in my opinion.

 

Dave

 

PS; Sorry for my avatar looking like the reaper, i honestly only picked it cos its eyes glow red! lol Keep the posts coming!

[OLDYELLOW]

 

Van Link, i personally find this a refreshingly intellectual post. A lot of thought has gone into what you have written, and a very interesting topic to say the least.

Answer 1. Without a doubt, no. Nobody should be allowed to use any form of media for corrupt purposes. As long as the truth is established, no witch hunting, just factual evidence, then in my opinion the bullsh!tters should be exposed.

Answer 2. Yes, as long its a legitimate claim, and not an attempt at persecuting people that they have a disagreement with.

Answer 3. No, factual evidence should be reported in an impartial manner, not just representing their own views and trying to brainwash the readership.

Answer 4. Yes, once again though, as long as its not a witch hunt by people with personal vendetta's. Facts & Truthfulness, people should not be scared of that. If they are, and cannot answer respectful inquisitive questions, stay way from them.

Answer 5. Definately not. We are all responsible  for what we say and do. We are lucky that our fore-fathers fought to give us the freedoms we enjoy today. But with this freedom comes responsability. A responsability to do things in the right way, not just to slander and be disrespectful in such a way as to cause people such harm to them, their family, their property, or their business.

Answer 6. Definately not. But it happens regardless. The one thing i have found in the pigeon game over the years is that all those who are actively loudest with their mouths to criticize, are always the quietest when the work is being distributed. Whats that old adage, empty barrels make the most noise!

Answr 7. Definately not. Back to the with freedom comes responsability statement. Report truthfull facts in an impartial manner. By all means, after the facts have been reported, have your say, your point of view. We are all entitled to that. But viewpoints should be balanced and respectful when you are controlling the pen. Having said that, we are all capable of being able to sort the wheat from the chaff, whose opinions to value and whose to discard. Those who shout the loudest to try and gain credability, who give or continually state self promoting propaganda to create an illusion of greatness, those are the ones to keep well away from.

 

In your opening statement you reference about people thinking these forums bring the game into disrepute. I am a member of several pigeon web-sites, and overall enjoy most of the pigeon crack. One site i am a relatively quiet member of i can see some reasoning into that opinion. Moderators having numerous IP addresses and membership names. Locking threads where people disagree with what they say, threatening warnings to those that ask questions, etc, then hypocritically appearing on other sites to create problems. But, on the other hand, i would be wary of taking on board opinions from someone who is merely out to make money out of our sport. Maybe they dislike the forums as they can't brainwash and make everyone believe that they are just an "honest Joe!" Whilst the abuse is a valid statement, as it definately happens. The mods are always having to cleanse threads. Arguments happen, it is human nature. The no use to the sport statement is rubbish in my opinion. May i refer you to a cracking recent post by a very good friend of mine, Blue Chequer Pied, regarding the pigeon forums being the perfect media in which to promote our sport. Read it through if you can find it. One of the best posts i personally have ever read.

In closing, your passion statement i agree wholeheartedly with. Its part of what makes this sport so great! I would disagree with having the mods "vet" posts before they are posted, for one the sheer scale of posts would make this nigh on impossible, and the poor mods would have full time jobs actioning such a colosal amount! lol! You seem to be a level headed person, with a refreshingly balanced viewpoint. I look forward to more of your balanced writings, well done!

 

couldnt of put it better good post Dave  

[Guest shadow]

Excellent post dave :) :)

[Guest Owen]

Well, at the end of the day, after the ranting has been done. I look forward to my involvement with this forum. I actually like the warts and all side of it. And I am glad that we all have the opportunity to say what we want too. OK there are a few powder puffs out there who like to play the victim. But then you will see that in every walk of life.

I have just read a long explanation of the workings of cider vinegar. It was written by a guy who was not trying to sell it and he was doing it to help us. What more do you want? There a loads of people trying to be helpful. At last we are beginning to throw off the rubbish we have been fed by those who have a vested interest. We are real people talking about those things that interest us. And yea, OK there is bound to be the odd spat, but, so what? We are doing what we enjoy, most of the time, and people are learning to be better at flying birds. That's what is important. I am lucky because I win races every year and I can usually keep my birds healthy and fit. But, I can honestly say, that in spite of years of experience with all sorts of livestock and a healthy distrust of professionals, I am  learning from this forum. Just the fact that I try to answer the questions posed on here is good for me. It forces me to think and keeps me current in my thinking. And long may it continue.  

[vanlink]

Thanks again Dicky Darky, Dave or should I call you dad since the kind words. Wow Owen, what a post! I think without offending any one that is the best reply I have read anywhere. Straight from the heart and I think bringing the subject nicely to a conclusion. Especially since I’ve got a RPRA strategic review to start moaning about.

[me]

Recently I have experienced having a subject locked on a forum in advance of what may or may not be said that could be defamatory or not in the interests of the forum in general. Les Parkinson also wrote in his column that during his visit to the BICC dinner the subject of websites particularly chat rooms were a topic of conversation, why? Because he and many more believe that they bring the sport into disrepute. They are he says a tool for abuse to others within the sport and of no real benefit whatsoever to pigeon racing.  

 

I suppose that a forum can be used to either propagate rumours or clarify the truths. There is of course always going to be a risk of libellous statements being added to a forum. On this basis there should be moderators and a degree of control but how much is necessary so as not to ruin the whole forum experience? Perhaps sometimes it is easier for the politics to deflect from the act of pigeon racing and it is very important that some of the more out spoken amongst us be rained in. I Am probably guilty of being over zealous sometimes but I can say that there is no malice intended. This is a sport, which requires a certain amount of passion that sometimes spills off the pitch.

 

My questions to open up this debate are:

Should those whom use wealth to fund advertisements that contain untruths for manipulation of customers be allowed to continue unchallenged? Should people whom place themselves into an authoritative position and fail to act for any good be pressed for results? Should journalists whom hold the power of the pen be able to control a whole mindset? Do the sceptical not have a responsibility to warn, highlight and inform the gullible of a potential scam?      

 

And the other side of the argument:

Should someone be allowed to cause the collapsed of some ones hard toiled business with one careless unfounded throwaway remark?

Can it be kind to criticise our officials who work hard, very often unpaid, for all are benefits when most of us are too lazy to get off our backsides?

Is it right that our journalists be allowed to write without reproach for our entertainment or should they be hounded away for writing something we could have chosen not to read?

 

So over to you, what are the answers?

 

May be instead of locking risky subjects forums could introduce a fail-safe method, which would require the post to be read by a moderator before being shown to everyone.

 

I'm so sorry  i fell a sleep half way through reading your post!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!