Newbie Dovecote questions from Canada

[klorinth]

I am a complete newbie to the world of pigeons. I have watched them but have never known anyone that kept them. I would like to have a small number to fly at my new property. Everything is being built from scratch on the property and that includes the buildings for chickens and pigeons. I had the idea of combining the two into one building. To this end I have been working on designs. I think I have a design that I am happy with, both in function and in looks. My wife wants it to look like it belongs on the property.

 

I will attach a couple of pics of the design, and try to explain it.

 

The building will be built to resemble many of the typical old barns in this area. It will be one and a half story, chickens on the ground and pigeons above. There would be an enclosed sunporch for the chickens, with the aviary above that. The sunporch would be enclosed with clear polycabonate panels. This creates a solar heated space for the chickens during our extremely cold winters. The pigeons would also have this type of panel on the front of the aviary but they would be able to fly in and out. I placed a landing board in the pic along the front. There is also a small drop entry at the top of the loft front.

 

I want to have a free flying dovecote. Not a closed one like is used here in North America.

 

The inside of the loft could be done almost any way. As I am learning this is one area that will take time to figure out. In this pic you can see possible locations for nesting boxes in the back and perches on the sloped ceiling. This is not a large loft. Only meant for a handfull of pairs at most. The chicken coop would be about 8'x12', but the loft would be smaller and not as high.

 

I need help to know if I am doing the right thing with this kind of idea. The chickens and the pigeons would be kept separate, so no problems there. What am i missing and not thinking of? Most people that I have spoken to here do not like the idea of an open loft at all. They see nothing but problems with predators. I have no concerns about the fourlegged kind. The property is patrolled by 5 hunting dogs that will happily chase and kill any stupid enough to enter. The building would have smooth walls, the roof overhangs more than enough to keep them from getting on top. The roof would be smooth metal. The sunporch is inside a much larger fenced garden inside the chicken runs as shown below.

 

 

I need help from those who have experience building and keeping a more traditional dovecote. What am I not planning for?

[Novice]

Wow----that looks really great.

With pigeons the main concern will always be ventilation and as constant a temperature as possible.

 

I feel I would keep both in entirely different buildings as chickens can be more prone to disease and  parasititic infestation than pigeons.

The birds don't need to be in direct contact to pass on viral diseases.

[klorinth]

Thank you.

 

Good point about the airborne virus issue. I was wondering about that. I know human diseases well but not avian ones. Anyone know how common the airborne viruses would be? I was thinking about the pros and cons of separate ventilation. Common ventilation would be the best for temperature control, but disease does then become the issue. I can easily have two sets of intakes. The chicken intact is going to be through the sunporch. No problem giving the pigeons their own. I was already looking at a system for tempering the intake air, warms or cools the air slightly before it enters the loft, depending on the season. I could have a dedicated one going up the inside wall into the loft. Would need to be a large one, but that is doable.

 

Temperature is a major issue for me. Our temps here swing from the high +30's in the summer with high humidity, to the -45 range with very low humidity in the winters. Had  a fair bit in the -40 range this last winter, December and January. Makes building a proper building critical. Hence the sunporch design. Gives the chickens a place to go outside of the coop in the winter without being in the wind and snow.

[klorinth]

The property that I am building on is completely open. This means I am planting all of the trees, shrubs, flowers, grasses, etc. Is there anything that I should be looking for? I will not be planting any large trees close to the loft. No need to make easy ambushing of the loft by BOP. We have enough hawks already. I don't need to make it easier for them. Should I plan to have an area with large shrubs that could provide protection for the pigeons? I'm thinking of the descriptions of pigeons diving into trees and bushes to avoid a BOP attack. Is there any way that I could create appropriate protection for them?

 

I may be getting a little out of control with this I guess. Its just that I will be starting to do the planting in early May, and I have a lot to work with. I will be planting more every year for the next few years. I have access to an almost unlimited amount of trees and shrubs.

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Next thought... Are there any types of grasses, fruiting shrubs, or anything else that would benefit my pigeons as food? I already have things like wild oats, rape, wheat, flax... and possibly more that they could eat. Corn will be grown as a wind break for the next few years around the property. I could do sunflowers as well.

 

Some of the shrubs that I already have ordered are picked specifically for the berry's they create. They are what the local birds like. I just don't know enough about pigeon diet. I am working on encouraging the prairie songbirds, so I though maybe I could expand that plan...

 

Occurs to me that in reality if I wanted to truly have an old fashioned dovecote, I could. There is so much food in the surrounding countryside that I probably would never need to feed them if i didn't want to. I wont do this though. I like to be involved too much. The local ferals do very well though.

[Cabin Boy]

We have been keeping pigeons and chickens together for years and we have never had any trouble with disease or cross infection between them

[OLDYELLOW]

salmonella is one that can pass from chicken to pigeon , chickens attract vermin i wouldnt advise keeping the two together

[klorinth]

What does Salmonella do to pigeons?

 

Vermin(rats+mice I assume) are always an issue out in the country. Although we do not seem to have much in the way of rats in this area. I'm not sure how much more I can do to avoid them. My dogs do a very good job of tracking them and eating them. Our one female seems to prefer to sniff out their nests and destroy them. She does not eat any though. Just kills the pups. We also have a cat that patrols the areas the dogs do not. Not much more I can do. I will not use any of the poisons that some people use. Out of the question. I will build the coops and lofts as solid as I can, within reason.

[just ask me]

i do like your thoughts on how u are going about the whole thing one thing i would advise against is them feeding in fields and feed them in the loft as this will make them tamer if u catch them for any reason maybe a health issue could come up in the future also with Fielding its easier for bops to catch them also i don't know what pesticides they use in Canada but id imagine some of them wouldn't be great  for birds  but i do like your dedication on wanting things right and your loft design from what i can see looks very good to handle a few pairs i can see a few whites looking very good flying in and out of there

[klorinth]

Thank you for the encouragement. It is needed sometimes. Being as I don't know anyone that has pigeons, this is a little hard to do alone.

 

I agree with the feeding in the fields. I will be feeding in the loft only. Partially just to discourage the ferals from thinking my place is a good place to eat. So far tehy have stayed away. They only fly over the property on their way somewhere else. I think I prefer it that way. But, if i have my birds flying around fairly often, or at least when I am home, i imagine that they will eventually start feeding in the fields. I live in the open prairie. There is almost nothing but fields for as far as the eye can see. An absolutely all you can eat restaurant for pigeons. Hence the ferals doing well I would think. That is the reason for my wanting to plant things on the property that they would be interested in. At least this way they are less likely to eat from the fields. A minimal amount of control, I know, but at least it is something.

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On a whole other tangent... Can pigeons see colour? I've noticed people painting their lofts bright colour. Does this really make any difference to the pigeons ability to find the loft? Or is this just for us? My loft will be red most likely to match the house and garage, but I'm curious.

[Cabin Boy]

Thank you for the encouragement. It is needed sometimes. Being as I don't know anyone that has pigeons, this is a little hard to do alone.

 

 

 

On a whole other tangent... Can pigeons see colour? I've noticed people painting their lofts bright colour. Does this really make any difference to the pigeons ability to find the loft? Or is this just for us? My loft will be red most likely to match the house and garage, but I'm curious.

 

Pigeons can be trained to colours, we were at a display once where they were taught to do different things depending on the colour of the flag/paddle they displayed

 

 

[Cabin Boy]

salmonella is one that can pass from chicken to pigeon , chickens attract vermin i wouldnt advise keeping the two together

 

Salmonella can be transferred from anything to anything that can harbour salmonella, is a carrier such as a crow or a seagull lands on your loft and fouls it you have a chance although slight of your pigeons contracting salmonella. If your chickens are kept in good health they are safe as your pigeons in fact their are breeds of chickens that are immune to salmonella, you are more likely to get salmonella from pigeons than from chickens according to the old man who has kept them together for years, he only once had problems 4 years ago and it was from a pigeon he bought from another well known fancier that turned out to be a carrier. The carrier survived while all the others contracted it and either died or had to be euthanized, the whole loft had to be culled and the loft was torched, never had any problem since as we now isolate and quarantine all birds

 

 

[klorinth]

Salmonella- So a pigeon can contract salmonella in the same way as you or I?... contact and entry into the digestive tract?... I then assume that it is poisoning due to the toxin excreted by the bacteria?... or is it the typhoid/paratyphoid infection?

 

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Just did a quick review of Salmonella to refresh my memory. I had forgotten how many different types there are and how many different ways there are to get it. Not to mention the  fact that we all can be carriers and not know it. This is why it can be bad to know about disease.   Now I remember why microbiology was stressful at times.

 

Seems there are three types that effect birds. Interesting.

 

Salmonella = Typhoid fever. One of those nasty diseases that can kill quite well, unless you are very healthy. Seems to be the same thing for pigeons.

 

Thank you for the thought, Oldyellow and Cabin Boy. Still doesn't stop me from thinking about them in the same building though. Salmonella is everywhere and far to easy to contract. They could infect each other or I could even if they were on different ends of the property. And it's a half mile wide. Nature sure can be nasty. Have to respect it though. Nature is really inventive.

 

Thanks guys!

[billy wilson]

the only thing i can mension here is when going from chicken shed have a change of shoewear as disease can be carried into pigeon shed,ive seen this so many times with friends birds getting cocci and so on.

[klorinth]

Good One! Biosecurity 101! You're right. I wonder if I can get a hold of the slip over paper booties? They are used in hospitals and labs along with the coveralls and caps.

 

Good thought. Thanks

 

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Next thought...

 

Since I will be starting out by having a settling period for my first pairs... How should the loft be set up that could be different than when you are flying birds? Or is it all the same?

 

I will be having the covered aviary, so a bath area would be needed. Perches in the loft and aviary. Nesting boxes in the loft.

 

How do people deal with bathing in the winter? I already have heated water dishes for the dogs that hold about a gallon of water, about 20 cm wide. Or is a dust bath fine? Fine sand and some diatomaceous earth?

[valteng]

i can't comment on bathing during winter.. coz we dont have winter season here in phils.... lols just kidding mate... cheers

[klorinth]

LOL Comments like that, around here in February, can get a guy hurt fairly badly. LOL   ;D

 

Winter over though so people are in a bit better mood, although everything is flooding. Imagine the Thames becoming 16 km wide over a couple of weeks! Not a good thing.  

 

Later.

[klorinth]

Question about starter breed... Should I be starting with Homers? This is what has been recommended to me. I like the homers and the rollers, both for looks and behavior. The Homers sell for $5-10 CAD around here( I went to an auction last Sunday). I know the whole argument about the quality of breeding and such, but I am talking about a few birds to just learn to care for, breed, and train pigeons as a total newbie. If I really get into it I will build a new loft and start with better birds at that point. I just want something to start with that I can fly.

 

Opinions please...?