obsticals racing

[PATTY BHOY]

does this make sense.What is remarkable about the racing pigeon is its ability to select the height in the sky at which to race home. When racing into a head wind you may have seen the exhilarating sight of a batch of racing pigeons flying low, hedge hopping, trying to gain an advantage by sheltering from the on coming wind. You may have seen them on race days skimming up over the tree tops and then descending back down to just a few feet above ground level. However there is the serious risk of injury when pigeons race very low and near to obstacles at speed. In this situation pigeons at the rear of large batches will have their view restricted by those directly in front and as a consequence collision with an on coming obstruction is a good possibility. The leading birds will see wires or trees, and rise up over them; where as those at the rear will have little time to dive upwards in an attempt to miss the obstacle. When these conditions prevail our birds sometimes return with broken legs or skinned breast bones. Sadly on occasions they will fail to return at all.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Guest]

yes it makes sense Patty ,but how often do they do this?? once every two seasons is my guess?            a

[Guest frank dooman]

yes it makes sense Patty ,but how often do they do this?? once every two seasons is my guess?            a

 

i think its alot more often than we know and on the other hand a blow home is more dangerious as far as iam concerned the birds are doing over 1700yds per min and very high at that speed the birds can be 15/20 mls past the loft before they know it

[Guest]

 

i think its alot more often than we know and on the other hand a blow home is more dangerious as far as iam concerned the birds are doing over 1700yds per min and very high at that speed the birds can be 15/20 mls past the loft before they know it

 

possibly right about the obstacles Frank ? hard to know for sure . would agree fully with the "blow home" case tho.   andy.

[Guest frank dooman]

i will take my chances against the wind but i hate the tesco races ;)

[Guest Owen]

I have followed my birds home from training tosses and they have given me quiet a fright. On two differant routes they have followed the road. And I can see them flying through wires on the pylons and over trees, just skimming them.

This has happened when the wind is in there faces.

I read somewhere that a study was done on the route taken by pigeons homing. It seems that they follow motorways and railway lines.

My own experience is pretty much the same. The birds follow the road a lot of the time.

The odd thing is, that I have had plenty of injuries to my young birds but hardly ever to my widowhood cocks. I am not sure why this is.

Perhaps it could be to do with the numbers I keep. About 12 cocks and about 25 youngsters. The youngsters could be closer to each other because they are less experienced and get security from being close. If that is the case the back youngsters would find it hard to see wires and things in time to avoid them.

On other occasions, I don't see them at all. I think this is when the wind is lighter. On days like this they must fly at altitude and they get home ages before me.

[Guest strapper]

about 8-10yrs a go i let my birds go about 20mls away not far from hereford...north to me.

when they got home i had 2 with damage to wings 3 with broken legs 3 missing.

my 1 m8 trained half hour behind me ..he had similar damage then i heard off another late at night telling me what a bad toss he had.

broken legs etc....now 3 different fanciers having similar problems that night.

i put it down to the wind and it had changed their route and they crossed though wires.

[Guest IB]

I've heard clubmates talk of hitting wires, just as described here 'the birds at the back of the batch not seeing them'. I have difficulty with that one, particularly as they were talking about a North - South pylons line crossing an east - west line of flight, a couple of miles from home.

 

I doubt that's the reason for injuries as it doesn't take account of another homing skill, the bird's ability to memorise thousands of visual images, and I fail to see how a pigeon with a visual map of its home territory / ground that it has covered before, can fail to know that there's wires there, especially as they'll stretch right across the birds field of vision (way beyond the batch of birds its in).

 

Agree hedge-hopping will cause casualties.  

[Guest frank dooman]

I've heard clubmates talk of hitting wires, just as described here 'the birds at the back of the batch not seeing them'. I have difficulty with that one, particularly as they were talking about a North - South pylons line crossing an east - west line of flight, a couple of miles from home.

 

I doubt that's the reason for injuries as it doesn't take account of another homing skill, the bird's ability to memorise thousands of visual images, and I fail to see how a pigeon with a visual map of its home territory / ground that it has covered before, can fail to know that there's wires there, especially as they'll stretch right across the birds field of vision (way beyond the batch of birds its in).

 

Agree hedge-hopping will cause casualties.  

 

do you believe that our birds know/remember every obstical even at the home end ian??

[lawrie]

if you see a kit of birds loft training, notice how they all move in the same direction at a split second notice? so for me the theory of birds at the back having their view obstructed wouldnt matter. they would follow the bird in front.

 

they must use photographic memory if they flew the course before.

[Guest steve1952]

ive read a lot of topics since ive been here, and while i was waiting for validation all about pigeons, its amazing what these birds can do and what they go through, i smoke and used to go to france and belgium 3 times a year to buy them, just for me and family, many times ive read especially y/bs try to fly around the sea, yes they might at times but go on a ferry over channel on a saturday and watch, as many say in headwind pigeons fly low, which over channel happens most, ive seen pigeons fly 2 to 4 foot above water then dragged in it as water swells, which in middle of channel is a high swell at times even without winds, hope this doesnt upset any flyers or puts any off from channel races, im racing y/bs for 1st time in 2010 and over channel, flyers who win over channel brilliant you will be , but your birds must be outstanding, good luck to all in 2010.

[catchthepigeon]

if you see a kit of birds loft training, notice how they all move in the same direction at a split second notice? so for me the theory of birds at the back having their view obstructed wouldnt matter. they would follow the bird in front.

 

they must use photographic memory if they flew the course before.

#

the birds  would all be lost if they were using photographic memory at the rate they throw up new housing estates which means more wires

 

 

[Guest IB]

 

do you believe that our birds know/remember every obstical even at the home end ian??

 

What I'm saying Frank is that birds should know their home area well. You'll probably know the power line I was talking about running south from Grangemouth. There's another far higher one running south from Cockenzie power station. We both train our birds in that direction, and with mine at least, they'll see and probably cross the Grangemouth one every time they're out. To suggest that the birds don't know these wires are there just doesn't make sense to me.

 

It is proven that pigeons can remember & recognise thousands of visual images Frank. I don't think they do that for fun. There must be a reason for it, and for me that reason is that it's a fundamental part of the bird's homing ability. They use a number of different skills to get home, and if they can't use one, they switch to another. It has also been proven they don't need to see to get home, they've been 'blind-folded' by having discs glued to their eyelids, and they've still got home safely, with observers 'shaken' to see the blind birds' feet outstretched to land on the loft landing board. So in my opinion, birds running into wires must be down to another reason.

[Guest frank dooman]

sory i dont believe they know where all wires etc are yes i do believe they may know/recongise large land marks like the forth bridge wallace monument and things like that yes they dont get home useing sight as they fly with there third eyelid down and prob only partly see but if a no of birds are raceing hard normanly following the leader and trying to stay in a batch for saftey then when the leaders see or sence the obstical sometimes very late then yes the birds at the back can hit it i do agree that if a hawk strike may make the situation much worse

[Guest IB]

sory i dont believe they know where all wires etc are yes i do believe they may know/recongise large land marks like the forth bridge wallace monument and things like that yes they dont get home useing sight as they fly with there third eyelid down and prob only partly see but if a no of birds are raceing hard normanly following the leader and trying to stay in a batch for saftey then when the leaders see or sence the obstical sometimes very late then yes the birds at the back can hit it i do agree that if a hawk strike may make the situation much worse

 

That’s an interesting one about the nicky membrane Frank. What makes you think it stops the bird seeing as well when its closed?

 

My last post about blinded birds reminded me about an experience I had in 2004, that I believe was the result of a hawk attack, the same as you infer in your post.

 

A youngster arrived back late from exercise and landed in front of the loft on his wing butts. When I picked him up, I found he’d broken the ring leg and injured the other, he couldn’t stand up. He was also skinned the full length of and on both sides of the keel, where he'd hit the deck probably after the attack.

 

The youngster he had been out with arrived home early the next morning beak gaping and blinded in both eyes by green gunge. I first spotted him on my neighbour’s roof, I shouted on him, and he came down to the loft roof, but I had to go up and lift him off it. The inside of his upper beak and throat were caked in dried blood and wood splinters, and at first I thought the roof of his mouth was missing.

 

The green gunge in his eyes were bits of leaf. He had obviously been run by a hawk and had gone into a tree, or more correctly the tree had gone into him!

 

 

 

[Guest frank dooman]

iam no expert regarding the third eyelid but i would think if you put anything over an eye it would restrict the sight and i think i seen it somewhere some vet video cant quite remember remember birds will fly stright into anything when mr hawk ataks glass doors trees fences walls the panic i think stops them from thinking as it does with all living things even us theres allways that 10/20 sec delay when you get a fright they are no different but they do know they need to move fast in any direction thats where the prob. comes in

[Guest kev d]

im in a lucky position where my loft is situated over looking a valley and i can see for miles

and i see most weeks race birds heading north i only see them when there,s a head wind NE wind

and they all get strung out in one long line no birds at the back ive seen this many a time so those birds

with injurys arn,t acting quick enough with the wires and trees .

[Guest frank dooman]

fair point kev how many birds would you say at a guess? and have you ever  seen percy hae a go at them if so what hapens then?

[Guest IB]

iam no expert regarding the third eyelid but i would think if you put anything over an eye it would restrict the sight and i think i seen it somewhere some vet video cant quite remember remember birds will fly stright into anything when mr hawk ataks glass doors trees fences walls the panic i think stops them from thinking as it does with all living things even us theres allways that 10/20 sec delay when you get a fright they are no different but they do know they need to move fast in any direction thats where the prob. comes in

 

Don't see the nicky membrane restricting eyesight Frank, it's a natural part of the eye and what Nature provides usually gives the animal a helping hand in its daily life.

 

Take your point about panic - many on here have witnessed it, and I believe its this panic being run by a hawk that causes most of the injuries we are getting.

[Guest kev d]

hi frank , no ive never seen percy take any thing but  ive seen percy go after my yb she missed

her target and she went after them ive never seen yb fly so fast in all my time in keeping pigeons

30 years and the noise they were making with there wings they were putting all there energy in to flying

i had 30 yb flying in a very tight bunch they were like the red arrows trying to get away from her and they did

i got lucky that day all came back .

[Guest frank dooman]

the membrane is there to keep the crap out of the eye when flying so when its down it must restrict vision as its not completly transparent

[Guest IB]

im in a lucky position where my loft is situated over looking a valley and i can see for miles

and i see most weeks race birds heading north i only see them when there,s a head wind NE wind

and they all get strung out in one long line no birds at the back ive seen this many a time so those birds

with injurys arn,t acting quick enough with the wires and trees .

 

I was told back when I was a teenager that the birds race strung out in a straight line. I noticed the same thing in the Jim Jenner video, the Barcelona birds strung out all over the place, and pretty low, seemingly, just skimming over the tree tops.

[just ask me]

im with ib on this one cant see nature providing a animal with a disadvantage of not being able to see out of the third eye lid also this is a pigeons only weapon in knowing when a predator is around

[Guest frank dooman]

im with ib on this one cant see nature providing a animal with a disadvantage of not being able to see out of the third eye lid also this is a pigeons only weapon in knowing when a predator is around

 

oh well thats me told ;D

[just ask me]

Birds have three eyelids, and so do dogs and cats. The upper and lower eyelids have small bristle feathers that resemble eyelashes. Most birds only close their eyelids during sleep, and use the third eyelid alone for blinking. The third eyelid, the nictitating membrane, lies beneath the eyelids on the side of eye closest to the nostril. It darts across the eye about 30-35 times per minute in the domestic fowl, and also moves across the eye if an object approaches the eye suddenly or if something touches the head. The third eyelid becomes scooplike and sweeps excess fluid in to the corner of the eye where it drains. In most birds, the nictitating membrane is transparent, so vision is not impaired when the eyelid blinks, which is important since so many birds are prey animals. It helps to be able to see when blinking! It is suspected that some birds may fly with the third eyelid covering the cornea of the eye, which prevents it from drying out during flight, acting like birdy goggles

 

taken off here well worth a read

 

http://www.exoticpetvet.net/avian/anatomy.html