Selling Pigeons

[gulkie]

if a fancier wanted me to pay to see a pedigree or

the history of a bird ,he/she would not be selling me

any birds, and what happened to the old saying you

pays ur money u takes ur chancies, i'v heard it more

on hear than anywhere else.

[Guest Owen]

maxwell

no-one can tell really. You would have to examine the birds so that you are sure that they do not have any physical disrepancies. One of the down sides of useing untried and tested birds is the fact that they can be physically or mentally unsuitable because they have never been put under pressure. The one good thing about testing stock is the fact that they have to be able to use their mental and physical attributes to be successful.

After that it is a gamble. I probably would not want to do anything like that because I would not want a shed full of birds waiting to prove their worth. And I believe that in most cases you would have quite a low ratio of good birds. So to compensate you would have to breed many more to find the ones you actually want.

As the man said, the proof of the pudding and all that. I have told you my views on this matter and I am making continual progress in terms of the quality of my birds. Others are doing well with them as well. It is my opinion that, if I were to follow the idea of buying in untried and tested birds, I would have to keep a lot of birds to make it work. That is because you need a big piece of luck to carry on in that way. And judging on what I see all around, you would also need to breed a heck of a lot of youngsters because you would be bound to breed a lot of crap. You must have noticed that a lot of Fanciers get wiped out every year and can not complete the programme in spite of the fact that they have spent good money on these birds out of goodness knows what. If that is a road you would want to travel, best of luck.

I only want to race 12 cocks and I do not want more that 25 youngsters. And I want to be able to compete against the best with them. I can and I do.

So if you want my views on the matter, I would definately try the birds as breeders if they are sound but I would rely on the successful ones on the road. Because if you want to produce sound stock you will have to face up to the fact that they have to do what they have been bred for. Potential is fine but you can not live on it.  

[Guest bigda]

maxwell

no-one can tell really. You would have to examine the birds so that you are sure that they do not have any physical disrepancies. One of the down sides of useing untried and tested birds is the fact that they can be physically or mentally unsuitable because they have never been put under pressure. The one good thing about testing stock is the fact that they have to be able to use their mental and physical attributes to be successful.

After that it is a gamble. I probably would not want to do anything like that because I would not want a shed full of birds waiting to prove their worth. And I believe that in most cases you would have quite a low ratio of good birds. So to compensate you would have to breed many more to find the ones you actually want.

As the man said, the proof of the pudding and all that. I have told you my views on this matter and I am making continual progress in terms of the quality of my birds. Others are doing well with them as well. It is my opinion that, if I were to follow the idea of buying in untried and tested birds, I would have to keep a lot of birds to make it work. That is because you need a big piece of luck to carry on in that way. And judging on what I see all around, you would also need to breed a heck of a lot of youngsters because you would be bound to breed a lot of crap. You must have noticed that a lot of Fanciers get wiped out every year and can not complete the programme in spite of the fact that they have spent good money on these birds out of goodness knows what. If that is a road you would want to travel, best of luck.

I only want to race 12 cocks and I do not want more that 25 youngsters. And I want to be able to compete against the best with them. I can and I do.

So if you want my views on the matter, I would definately try the birds as breeders if they are sound but I would rely on the successful ones on the road. Because if you want to produce sound stock you will have to face up to the fact that they have to do what they have been bred for. Potential is fine but you can not live on it.  

 

most fanciers know what to put in the bin there are others want to make a few pound out of them,   top race horse breeders,  will not let the derby winner breed with  the grand national winner,  thinking he will  breed  and win the st leger   ;D

[Guest mick bowler]

Why is selecting stock made out to be such a science? Its common sense, you buy birds that in your opinion are able to win, and as all our opinions differ, so are the birds we fancy. We all go for different attributes, some performance some breeding, some type and even colour. There are good and bad reasons to buy off any type of fancier, even the back garden man. All of them are capable of breeding you birds that throw winners and all of them are capable of breeding birds that throw crap.

 

How we deal with it them the real issue. You buy a pair they breed you good uns, you look after them. You buy a pair they breed nowt, if they are there for the job of breeding and cannot then they should be "unemployed"!

 

And what ultimately decides how good a breeding pair will be is who is racing them, a poor fancier will never win with the best birds.

[maxwell]

I have always believed that a pre potent breeder is worth a dozen winning pigeons, as i have had plenty of winning pigeons but very few pre potent breeders i would agree you do have to test the pigeons. For the record the above example i gave was in fact a super breeding pigeon a lot better than his 2 brothers that i raced and were 1st prize winners against over 9000 birds, i sold his nest mate and he bred 17 x 1st for the new owner he to was unraced, even when paired onto a hen with a similar number of unraced birds but from a different line he bred me my best racer ever, once i get a Champion pigeon then i will use him for inbreeding to fix the winning genes there,s a lot more chance of keeping the vigour when you inbreed to a cross bred which is usually the result of testing the likes of 8985 offspring with other lines, So i guess many roads lead to Rome.

[Guest duncan mckay]

WE WOULD ALL LIKE TO BREED WINNERS   WHEN WE GOING TO HEAR THE END OF THIS ;D

[pigeonscout]

A successful stock bird needs to breed winners not win races the only way to find that out is in the nest bowl not the race basket.  

[ch pied]

I have always believed that a pre potent breeder is worth a dozen winning pigeons, as i have had plenty of winning pigeons but very few pre potent breeders i would agree you do have to test the pigeons. For the record the above example i gave was in fact a super breeding pigeon a lot better than his 2 brothers that i raced and were 1st prize winners against over 9000 birds, i sold his nest mate and he bred 17 x 1st for the new owner he to was unraced, even when paired onto a hen with a similar number of unraced birds but from a different line he bred me my best racer ever, once i get a Champion pigeon then i will use him for inbreeding to fix the winning genes there,s a lot more chance of keeping the vigour when you inbreed to a cross bred which is usually the result of testing the likes of 8985 offspring with other lines, So i guess many roads lead to Rome.

yes Alun .

 

 

[pigeonscout]

I have always believed that a pre potent breeder is worth a dozen winning pigeons, as i have had plenty of winning pigeons but very few pre potent breeders i would agree you do have to test the pigeons. For the record the above example i gave was in fact a super breeding pigeon a lot better than his 2 brothers that i raced and were 1st prize winners against over 9000 birds, i sold his nest mate and he bred 17 x 1st for the new owner he to was unraced, even when paired onto a hen with a similar number of unraced birds but from a different line he bred me my best racer ever, once i get a Champion pigeon then i will use him for inbreeding to fix the winning genes there,s a lot more chance of keeping the vigour when you inbreed to a cross bred which is usually the result of testing the likes of 8985 offspring with other lines, So i guess many roads lead to Rome.

 

I agree 100% finding winning pigeons is easy finding the breeders of them is the hard part.

[Guest bigda]

generally speaking then, if yer birds wins races, you must have the parents that bred them.

race first,  win races then breed   ;)no guessing

[Guest Owen]

So for the sake of Duncan's sensibilities I will call it a day on this subject. I am sorry that he finds a facinating subject like breeding a bore. But there it is.

[Guest stb-]

So for the sake of Duncan's sensibilities I will call it a day on this subject. I am sorry that he finds a facinating subject like breeding a bore. But there it is.

 

maybe hes not breeding any winners and has gotten bored with it :-/ :-/ :-/

 

 

[Guest bigda]

I have always believed that a pre potent breeder is worth a dozen winning pigeons, as i have had plenty of winning pigeons but very few pre potent breeders i would agree you do have to test the pigeons. For the record the above example i gave was in fact a super breeding pigeon a lot better than his 2 brothers that i raced and were 1st prize winners against over 9000 birds, i sold his nest mate and he bred 17 x 1st for the new owner he to was unraced, even when paired onto a hen with a similar number of unraced birds but from a different line he bred me my best racer ever, once i get a Champion pigeon then i will use him for inbreeding to fix the winning genes there,s a lot more chance of keeping the vigour when you inbreed to a cross bred which is usually the result of testing the likes of 8985 offspring with other lines, So i guess many roads lead to Rome.

 

so your not breeding your own  winners,  then  just buying in like  as you say had plenty winning birds what bred them  the winners

[pjc]

 

so your not breeding your own  winners,  then  just buying in like  as you say had plenty winning birds what bred them  the winners

 

He is unable to race due to BOP's but has one of the best teams of stock in the country!

[ch pied]

 

He is unable to race due to BOP's but has one of the best teams of stock in the country!

100% one of the best stock team's

And nothing to prove to anyone

[Guest stb-]

100%

 

 

100%BOPS ??) ??)

[maxwell]

 

He is unable to race due to BOP's but has one of the best teams of stock in the country!

 

Hi Phil i have bred plenty of winners for myself and others. i have also bred some very good stock pigeons for other people as you are probably aware, the only reason i put some input into this thread was to show that you can breed good pigeons from untried pigeons, In fact i bred the Welsh South East Combine Winner from Lillers in 2009 from a unraced G Dtr of 8985 mated to an unraced cock as i said in my original post many roads lead to Rome. I aint got nothing else to say about it really but thanks for your comment.

 

[pjc]

Its simple Alun, top class stockmanship!

[Davey B]

100% one of the best stock team's

And nothing to prove to anyone

 

100% agree Davey, I've only just twigged who Maxwell is. A top class fancier and a geniune man.

[Guest duncan mckay]

So for the sake of Duncan's sensibilities I will call it a day on this subject. I am sorry that he finds a facinating subject like breeding a bore. But there it is.

 

MY OPINION BUT MAYBE NOT EH ;D