Pompey Mick Posted February 11, 2006 Report Posted February 11, 2006 The hen Eagle Owl featured in the documentary was reported found dead with heavy gauge shotgun pellets in its body at the end of January so Tam is spot on in his observations.
Guest Posted February 11, 2006 Report Posted February 11, 2006 The hen Eagle Owl featured in the documentary was reported found dead with heavy gauge shotgun pellets in its body at the end of January so Tam is spot on in his observations. Strange how the birds survived ok to raise 20-odd youngsters, then get a bit of publicity on TV and weeks later one is dead??? There had been previous interference with the birds nest - eggs smashed - here's hoping the hen's progeny survive long enough to breed too.
jimmy white Posted February 11, 2006 Author Report Posted February 11, 2006 YES I ALLREADY NEW THAT BUT DIDNT SAY ANY THING NEITHER THE RSPB OR DEFRA INFORMED ME AS I WAS E MAILING THEM , THAT TELLS A STORY
tam pepper Posted February 11, 2006 Report Posted February 11, 2006 hi bruno its nice to to see the raptors are in the front line for avian flu , as top of the food chain they will be picking up the birds that are not 100 per cent fit [ infected by the virus ] my only hope it will never reach our shores as it could cause all sorts of problens with our racing programe and the movement of birds . that picture of bilco with those rings is only a part of the story , most of the birds are killed and eaten away from the nest , they only carry to the nest when the eggs are being incubated and the young are being fed , the latest ring ive picked up is nehu 2004 ec 1467 green ring its my opinion that the rings were collected from the nest sites by members of the rspb , previous to evidencebeing submitted to the scottish parliament by all interested bodies . there estimation of the amount of peregrines was laughable . for an organization to introduce peregrines to the cities and towns , without any consultation with other interested bodies [ pigeon fanciers and songbird survival ] is breathtakingly arrogant , but you all knew this already tam pepper
Guest Posted February 11, 2006 Report Posted February 11, 2006 The hen Eagle Owl featured in the documentary was reported found dead with shotgun pellets in its body at the end of January YES I ALLREADY NEW THAT BUT DIDNT SAY ANY THING NEITHER THE RSPB OR DEFRA INFORMED ME AS I WAS E MAILING THEM , THAT TELLS A STORY Well, here's another story: The BTO spokesperson in the documentary said that anyone could shoot these birds and nothing would come of it as they were not protected by the Act. Weeks later one of them is shot dead. Now sounds like incitement of others to commit a wildlife crime to me. Anyone up for it? Didn't get a reply to my previous email to BTO, so I'll start there, and I'll drop my RSPB correspondant another email asking for his comments on the death by shooting of this bird, and ask what they intend doing about it.
Guest Posted February 12, 2006 Report Posted February 12, 2006 Well, I hope this is a good sign:- To: bou@bou.org.uk Subject: European Eagle Owls Sent: Sat, 11 Feb 2006 20:16:30 -0000 did not reach the following recipient(s): Steve Dudley on Sat, 11 Feb 2006 21:39:44 -0000 The message could not be delivered because the recipient's mailbox is full. <HEMV2DUKER.he.local #5.2.2> Keep calling them the BTO, different organisation. They are BOU, attached to a Uni. Incidently, think we need to be agreed on one thing: killing any wild bird is a crime, whether we like the bird or not. Otherwise we are being two-faced, and would lack any credibility with our friends and foes alike.
Guest Posted February 12, 2006 Report Posted February 12, 2006 ive looked at the pictures of the birds killed by the sparrowhawk , and quite frankly i,m dismayed by pigeon fanciers, ... defra are the lackies that act for the r.s.p.b . when a peregrine falcon is about ... you can either trap it or poision it if you can manage to get a hold of some ... i might add i would be ashamed to post the pctures i,ve seen in pigeon basics , and whinge about birds of prey Edited your earlier post down, Tam. The bits I've left in are intended to show what a defeatist attitude you have adopted, trying to break the law rather than work within it or have it changed. In the last bit, fanciers in Scotland did a little more than whinge ... The Scottish Homing Union lobby of parliament uncovered that existing legislation allows legal removal of troublesome birds of prey under license. More recently, Fishing interests have won the right to remove troublesome cormorants, and its the RSPB that are whingeing now. During lunch break, usually sit on the banks of the River Clyde in Glasgow City Centre and see a single cormorant at work most days. Can't see end result, but it is very industrious and can't believe it would expend all that energy if it wasn't getting a reasonable return in fish. If that's what one can do, Fishing have a right to be concerned. And if that (sport / hobby?) Body can put forward a case that wins a license in the face of RSPB opposition, then surely so can pigeon fanciers, through their respective Unions and legislative bodies.
Guest Posted February 12, 2006 Report Posted February 12, 2006 Surprisingly quick response from RSPB :- Subject: RE: Eagle Owls From: "Peters, Ian" <Ian.Peters@rspb.org.uk> Date: Sun, February 12, 2006 11:32 am I suspect the person involved at the BOU has had more than enough on his hands without being further being vilified. I am not particularly religious but it is worth bearing in mind the saying "let he who is without sin, cast the first stone". We are all human at the end of the day and mistakes happen and let us be honest here, the BOU spokesman did not pull the trigger. I really do not see that being an adequate defence in court if the perpetrator is caught (which I doubt). A good example is our anti-environmental friend Jeremy Clarkson who considers the speed limit not to apply to him and actively says so. I am sure the Police would not think someone doing 120mph had the justified permission of Mr Clarkson as an alibi yet I see little in the way of censure for the comments made. Having said this, I have read at least one public domain account that suggests this bird was not shot but as I have no personal knowledge of the circumstances this is as much speculation as the contention that the bird was shot. Regards Ian Can we confirm the source of the hen bird being dead - truth, rumour or what?
jimmy white Posted February 12, 2006 Author Report Posted February 12, 2006 Strange how the birds survived ok to raise 20-odd youngsters, then get a bit of publicity on TV and weeks later one is dead??? There had been previous interference with the birds nest - eggs smashed - here's hoping the hen's progeny survive long enough to breed too. very strange indeed,,,along with the e mail to bruno???
tam pepper Posted February 13, 2006 Report Posted February 13, 2006 hi bruno i dont think going out and sorting the problem is defeatist, the opposite i would say , ia am not trying to break the law, i break the law , with great gusto, my i interpretation of defeatist is rolling over and surrendering , perhaps you can tell me how many raptors have been taken out under licence, . bruno you keep watching watching the cormorants on the clyde , and i will carry on killing the vermin , watching cormorants achieves nothing , killing a raptor saves the lives of hundreds of birds tam pepper
frank-123 Posted February 13, 2006 Report Posted February 13, 2006 -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- I've now moved home find me here -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Clunk The Raptor Foundation Length 58-73cm 23-29" Wingspan 150-200cm 60-79" Weight 1600-4200g 56-148oz While matched in weight by Snowy Owls, in wingspan by Verraux's Eagle Owls (Bubo lacteus) & length by Powerful Owls (Ninox strenua), overall, the Eurasian Eagle Owl is the world's largest owl. Despite its size, they are generally a good-natured bird, preferring to shy away from contact with people, rather than chase them away. Eurasian Eagle Owls are found throughout Europe, Scandinavia, Russia, the Middle East & Asia, with some being found breeding as far south as the Sahara in Africa. Currently, they are not found in the wild as far East as Japan, or as far west as the British Isles. Some are found in the northern reaches of the Indian subcontinent, & until recently, the Indian Eagle Owl, living throughout the subcontinent, was considered to be a subspecies of the Eurasian Eagle Owl (Bubo bubo bengalensis), but is now regarded as a separate species (Bubo bengalensis). The Eurasian Eagle Owl was once resident in the UK, but was hunted to extinction during the late 19th century (NOTE - the RSPB does question this view & says that the evidence is very slim.). This was done mainly by gamekeepers & farmers, concerned on them preying on their livestock. Unlike many other birds of prey, their was some justification to their fears, the owls can take large prey, but it is unlikely that they could do enough to warrant hunting them to extinction. It has also been suggested that other reasons for hunting them were for stuffing as ornaments & for the fashion trade, the long feathers being in particular demand to adorn hats. There are reports of some Eagle Owls living in the wild in the UK, it is most likely that these birds are escaped or (illegally) released captive birds, rather than migrants. (I have also seen one reference to a small reintroduction programme in this country but haven't been able to find any details). The Eurasian Eagle Owl hunts predominantly at dusk & into the early night. They have occassionally been found sharing territories with Golden Eagles, with the eagles hunting during the day & the owls at night. They are not prepared to live peacefully with all birds of prey though, in particular goshawks. They have also been found to drive away Peregrines from near to their nesting sites. They have been reported as regularly preying on buzzards, goshawks, gyrfalcons, Tawny Owls, Long-Eared Owls & other small birds of prey, including their young. While other birds, such as ducks, pheasants, pigeons & crows, may be taken (often in flight), their main prey is mammals. They are able to catch prey spreading a large range of sizes, from mice & voles, through rabbits & hares, up to foxes, young sheep & roe deer. They are able to hunt in woods & forests, but due to the large size, especially the wingspan, they prefer more open spaces. Throughout their range they may be found in all types of habitat, from the cold pine forests of Northern Scandinavia, down through the cooler forests & pastures of middle Europe to the hot deserts of the Sahara. It will nest in woodland & on cliff faces. Being able to survive of such a range of habitat, being able take such a large range of prey & having few natural enemies (due to its size), it was once a highly successful bird. Unfortunately, the number in the wild are on the decline. Although common in some regions in others they are treated as endangered, suffering from the threats affecting most birds of prey. In captivity though, they are relatively easy to breed & their number (already large) is increasing. Breeding takes place from February through to July. The female usually lays 1 or 2 eggs, very rarely as many as 4, the number may be dependant on the available food supply. The female incubates the eggs on her own (taking 32-35 days), while the male brings her food, this continues for the first four or five weeks after hatching, when the female will help to catch food for the young. It is not uncommon for 1 of the young to die while still in the nest & this will be eaten by any remaining young. They are able to fly at around seven to eight weeks after hatching, but are dependant on their parents for some time after. It is usually late autumn by the time they are fully independant. There is often a high mortality rate during the first winter, but if they survive that first winter, in the wild, they may live up to 20 years. In captivity they have been recorded living up to 60 years. -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- IUCN Red List Status :
Guest Posted February 14, 2006 Report Posted February 14, 2006 hi bruno i dont think going out and sorting the problem is defeatist, the opposite i would say , ia am not trying to break the law, i break the law , with great gusto, my i interpretation of defeatist is rolling over and surrendering , perhaps you can tell me how many raptors have been taken out under licence, . bruno you keep watching watching the cormorants on the clyde , and i will carry on killing the vermin , watching cormorants achieves nothing , killing a raptor saves the lives of hundreds of birds tam pepper What elitist drivel. "Killing a raptor saves the lives of hundreds of birds" is much the same kind of philosophy we despise so much in the RSPB ... that one bird is held more or less valuable, is more or less desirable, or has more right to life than another. Pure GODSPEAK. So what other laws don't you agree with and break with glee? We've seen the post on Jeremy and speeding, even although it is recognised that this endangers every other road user; paedophiles think having sex with children is ok, even although it is morally wrong AND against the law; we've another nutter with an air rifle on the loose taking pot shots from a moving car at people in Gilmerton, Edinburgh, (tonight's STV News). Another unarmed policewoman shot. ..... Ad nauseum. You also appear clueless as to the cause of the problem (or indeed what the actual problem is) It's human interference with the natural order of things which has created this imbalance. Your own interference leads to other problems for the rest of us in that as a body WE are blamed for actions such as you describe. Our reputation and credibility is damaged long before we even get to put our case to those who can make the changes, that's why it has fallen mainly on deaf ears and closed minds until recently. As far as I know license arrangements only came in last year. It is a legal way to remove these birds and applications and use will give us (the fancy) and government independant statistics which cannot be argued against or dismissed so easily as is happening now with RSPB only having to say black is white and it is. Those stats will also serve to highlight our problems in government circles, possibly every day, so this IS the way to go. In my opinion THAT'S how problems are solved. Other ways either move problems elsewhere or create new ones.
tam pepper Posted February 15, 2006 Report Posted February 15, 2006 hi bruno yer getting carried away with your elitist drivel bruno , i cant for the world of me see how killing raptors can be associated to speeding, airgun shootings, paedophiles, you are obviously upset at me for calling you deafeatist , and you are deafeatist , i think i,ll stick to being elitest , and you can stick to being defeatist , you spent a lot of time answering me, 90 per cent of your article was uneccesary, as it was irrelevant . bruno , i know exactly what the problem is , its not enough human innterference , theres not enough gamekeepers now to fix the imbalance that the r.sp.b. has created . carry on watching the cormorants and dreaming bruno , your not going to get any concessions fromthe rspb, defra , or the bleached blondes with the red jackets in the scottish parliament , i think deep in your heart you know it tam [elitist ] pepper
Guest Posted February 16, 2006 Report Posted February 16, 2006 Tam, the relevance was (1) how far some people will go in breaking the law to further their own aims, and (2) that those aims may be so misguided that they won't gain anyone's agreement or respect. You'll solve nothing, nor will you win over many to our cause, by telling people to get guns (when rising gun crime in the UK is a big issue) and inciting people to break the law (Law & Order is also a big issue). I would also advise that you proceed with more caution in the future ... in computer terms you're not invisible and you can be traced. Elitism is the artificial ranking of life. In my opinion, neither you nor the RSPB have any right to dictate what lives, what dies. Nor can we pigeon folks complain on one hand that someone shot 'our' eagle owl, while on the other hand people like you are blasting other birds like it into oblivion.
tam pepper Posted February 16, 2006 Report Posted February 16, 2006 hi buno . we are both getting carried away bye our opinions on how to solve the problem of raptor attacks on our birds , you are entitled to your opinion, and i respect it , i am just an ordinary run of the mill pigeon fancier , protecting his birds not looking for aggreement or respect from anyone . your point on , telling people to get guns, people will read these little snippets and make up their own minds what to do , i am only pointing out the options to them , bruno i am perfectly aware that i could be traced that i,m not invisible in computer terms , this limits me on how i can argue my points with you , but without evidence the people who may or not be monitering , can not prosecute anybody . you seem to have double standards bruno , a problem bird , taken out of the equation bye the use of the appropriate licence is not elitist , my thinking is its still a dead bird bruno . your use of the words blasting and oblivion are are a bit sensational , after all i am only using an airgun , the airgun is not neccessary , it saves the lives of the birds that are attacked , i can solve the problem bye other methods , but i,m sacrificing my birds, when it comes to their birds or mine , i thiink theirs will be eliminated my birds are not the problem ,bye bruno , have a nice day tam
Guest Posted February 17, 2006 Report Posted February 17, 2006 You may recall I emailed World Owl Trust on the original programme and got no reply. Emailed them again on 'shooting' and received this reply back today:- Subject: Eagle Owls in Britain From: "World Owl Trust" <wot@btconnect.com> Date: Fri, February 17, 2006 12:22 pm Thank you for your concern about the Eagle Owls, we and other conservation groups have been discussing the issue and you will find our position statement on our web site. http://www.owls.org/News/eagle_owl.htm May I just point out that it was not the BTO but the BOU spokesman who said that Eagle Owls could be shot. You may have noticed that after the second showing of the film, following concern from ourselves and other organisations, there was a note to inform viewers that Eagle Owls are in fact protected under European Law. It was initially reported that the hen bird from the Yorkshire pair had been shot, but later it was said that she in fact died of natural causes. I have not seen the dead bird and so do not know the truth of the matter but I should have thought that, considering how keen local conservationists are to conserve the Eagle Owl pair, had she been shot there would have been a bigger outcry than there was. Although the World Owl Trust believes that Eagles Owls do have a natural place here in the UK, until evidence is presented that will convince certain other groups of this, there is little that we can do other than make our position clear. We are currently assisting with DNA research plans in order to attempt to unravel this mystery, however, this all falls down to funding. No doubt you will see in the press and on relevant web sites the story unfold in the future. I hope that this is of some help in answering your query, Kind regards, Jenny Holden Conservation Officer World Owl Trust 01229 717393 Muncaster Castle, Ravenglass Cumbria CA18 1RQ
zetlandlad999 Posted February 19, 2006 Report Posted February 19, 2006 This might sound callous to some of you, but my own observations have shown that if you let your birds have open hole after a while they become hawk wary, yes you might lose one or two, especialy Y.Bs but after a while the birds get really good at detecting when a hawk is about. I do not have any problems in my area with Perergrines only Sparrowhawks.
Guest Posted February 20, 2006 Report Posted February 20, 2006 you are sport on there, i think they deveop the natural instincts that the wild birds have
Guest Posted February 20, 2006 Report Posted February 20, 2006 you are sport on there, i think they deveop the natural instincts that the wild birds have Agree. Noted they scan the sky AND take their cues from what the wild birds are doing. Posted earlier a video clip I saw where pigeon stalled mid-air and fell backwards out of the sky, seconds before peregrine strike, evading the strike, with peregrine continuing on downwards and away from the escaping pigeon. We didn't teach it that move - bit of Jimmy's Instinct there I feel - remembering that the rock dove ancestor and the peregrine were once room mates at the Cliffs Hotel.
perk Posted February 20, 2006 Report Posted February 20, 2006 well i hope mine learn quickly had two hit and two more killed in the last two weeks(two killed best hens) they never kill your worst
jimmy white Posted February 20, 2006 Author Report Posted February 20, 2006 their room mates on truro cathedral, but not so daft ,they leave every morning and go for fanciers birds, they reckon hey keep the cathedral ones for their larder, in case of difficulty,,,
zetlandlad999 Posted February 21, 2006 Report Posted February 21, 2006 I really feel for you guys that are pestered with Peregrines, maybe Rockets are an answer to the problem.
THE FIFER Posted February 21, 2006 Report Posted February 21, 2006 OOH ZETLANDLAD U CAN'T FRIGHTEN BIRDS OF PRAY LIKE THAT, THEY ARE GODS GIFT TO LAND, SO THE RSPB THINK,
jimmy white Posted February 22, 2006 Author Report Posted February 22, 2006 wonder if the" so called papers"would say about the least talked about birds ,during this bird flu danger time THE PREDATORS, BIRDS OF PREY,,, THEVE ALLREADY BEEN FOUND INFECTED IN OTHER COUNTRIES , THE RSPB ARE PROTECTING THESE AND IN FACT RELEASING THEM TO BREED, SOME OF THESE SPECIES MIGRATE AS WELL,SURELY THEY WOULD POSE A GREAT DANGER TO THE SPREAD OF THIS DESEASE, THEY FEED ON ALL SORTS OF AVIANS [bIRDS] THEY COULD EASILY BE EATING ,AND FEEDING THERE YOUNG WITH INFECTED BIRDS,,,, WITH THIS THREAT AROUND US, THEY ARE MORE LIKE FLYING RATS????
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