timbarra Posted March 18, 2008 Report Share Posted March 18, 2008 Ted and Merlin, I shall not post on this thread , Jack please continue with your methods of teaching whatever you decide, I do not and have not insulted you personally and wish therefore to not converse with anyone who finds this way of comunication acceptable in this day and age. thank you spencer Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GHQ Posted March 18, 2008 Report Share Posted March 18, 2008 nicely done jack i look forward to learning more from you. ive always enjoyed reading your articals in the past. thanks Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jack Barkel Posted March 19, 2008 Author Report Share Posted March 19, 2008 Some of the Questions I have been asked. Q. If you pair a pearl to a yellow eye, and you get a youngster with a yellow and another youngster with a pearl. would you expect to see a difference in homing and vitality between the youngsters. A. I have found that yellows to pearls off the same pearl to yellow pairing are more often equal in homing ability and vitality, it is when we start pairing the pearl eye ( recessive ) to another pearl eye that we can expect degeneration of stamina and homing ability. Two yellows together when this practice is continued over three or four generations, will often give you slow plodders and degenerate into a long distance homer, like the Carrier and the Dragoon, from whence this all originated ****************************** Q. Is it true that all Chocolate Meulemans have bull eyes? I have similar looking pigeons but with yellow eyes with gold clusters, and was told they are Meulemans. However a club member told me that if they do not have bull eyes they are definitely not Meulemans. They do excellent on very fast short distance races ( plus minus 1700mpm and up to 450 kilometres ). A. I went through I think most Chocolate Meulemans stock at Louella World in England, and never found a bull eye unless it had too much white in its feathering. I have a vast knowledge of how to breed with this strain, having bred a five times in a row winner in 2006, many others winning club and fed averages in 2007 in South Africa. All my Chocolate Meulemans, and most of what I have seen over the years in properly controlled lofts have been beautiful Yellow, Green, Gold, Pearl and Violet eyes. Go onto my website, click on pigeons at the bottom of the opening page and then click on Meaulemans. You will view one of the best examples of this breed anywhere in the world. I myself am now breeding out the tell tale white feathering in the strain, which if not checked will breed nearly white birds just as it does in families of Grizzles. In fact Karel Meulemans will tell you himself they are recessive Jansen's and by introducing Blue Cheques ( Dominant) and I say with also a dominant eye, your chocolates can double the distance without losing much if any vitality. Karel Meulemans certainly knows what I have achieved in South Africa with his Meulemans family. I am open for all genuine questions about my methods etc.I can place more questions and answers on here if you deem them interesting. Regards jackbarkel@mweb.co.za http://mysite.mweb.co.za/residents/jackbarkel/ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bewted Posted March 19, 2008 Report Share Posted March 19, 2008 carry on with your questions and answers jack,would be most interesting to listen to other fanciers !!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jack Barkel Posted March 20, 2008 Author Report Share Posted March 20, 2008 Questions & Answers 2. Q. You mention the yellow eyes for cock birds, are yellow eyes better for breeding than pearl eyes. A. This depends on what type of pigeon you need for you particular area. If you line breed to a yellow eyed cock, you will breed for middle to long distance 1200 velocity and below. If you line breed to a pearl eyed cock you will breed for short to middle distance 1200 velocity and upwards.You must try and put a yellow eye with a pearl eye, the reason being, two yellows together will give increased stamina and intelligence ( homing ability ) but a reduction in speed and vitality. Two pearls together will give increased speed and vitality, but a reduction in intelligence; i.e. Homing Ability. A yellow to a pearl will assist in producing birds with a balance of Stamina, Intelligence ( homing ability) speed and vitality. Q. When you say the step in the wing creates a faster wing speed because it forces a faster wing beat which is all well and good for short fast races, but not for prolonged flight. My question is how long are the short fast races and how do you define the long races. A. Short Races I define as up to 200 miles or 350 kilometres. Fast Races I define as over 1200 metres per minute. Q. Do you place any importance on the tail of the pigeon? Do you believe in the theory that you should only be able to see one tail feather when looking at the bird from the top? I have birds where you can see three and sometimes four tail feathers and they have performed pretty well. A. The Belgium theory of a wedge tail is in my experience utter rubbish, all genuine Busschaerts have wide tails and broad flights in general, and are recognised in the UK as the best strain on a whole in the previous century. Andre van Bruaene, the same story and characteristics. The Indigo Janssen's developed by Bob Pickering of Yorkshire bred down through the Scalie Bange and Cleopatra also had these broad tails and were fantastic. None of these strains are short in the Great Champions department, so my advice is ignore it in its entirety. Try to get anyone of these advocates of the wedge tail to give the reason why, or what they believe happens to the tail in flight,and quickly you will expose these advocates for what they are. I also would like to state that I do not condemn the wedge tail either. I just do not think it matters which you have in the characteristic of flight, other than when braking and manoeuvring. Regards jackbarkel@mweb.co.za http://mysite.mweb.co.za/residents/jackbarkel/ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest slugmonkey Posted March 20, 2008 Report Share Posted March 20, 2008 I have handled over 25 national aces and can tell you a stepped wing is not a common feature in this caliber of bird!!! the rest I can not dispute although I will tell you that a stepped wing is NOT something that most good breeders (those who consistently win races of over 2000 birds) will try to achive in their stock loft most serious futurity breeders look for LONG flights that are pointy with plenty of ventilation between feathers and hardend feathers not the silky soft downy feathers that most of us like to handle, thats not to say that good birds are not feathered heavily and soft to the touch ( Stickelbaught, Boers, and most of the other german birds that seem to be winning everything) but they are not something to make a pillow out of. Look at the german breeding guidelines (dogs,livestock.ect) they adhere to very similiar principles I am not defending Jack here (he dosen't need my help) but what he is saying has a ring of familiarty and truth! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest slugmonkey Posted March 20, 2008 Report Share Posted March 20, 2008 P.S. I like long tails with them being almost squared off. most will say that when you rock the bird backward that the tail shouldnt move, I don't belive that either, I belive when you move the bird that way that a natural reaction is for the bird to throw and flair the tail this would imitate landing. I also belive that when you grab a birds beak that he should try to fight you and pull back this to me shows fight and spirit and although not a standard used by many ( Ad Sharalekens, probaly spelled wrong ) this is something I look at when handling birds. a bird that is difficult to handle wins points I am not looking for pets! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jack Barkel Posted March 20, 2008 Author Report Share Posted March 20, 2008 P.S. I like long tails with them being almost squared off. most will say that when you rock the bird backward that the tail shouldnt move, I don't belive that either, I belive when you move the bird that way that a natural reaction is for the bird to throw and flair the tail this would imitate landing. I also belive that when you grab a birds beak that he should try to fight you and pull back this to me shows fight and spirit and although not a standard used by many ( Ad Sharalekens, probaly spelled wrong ) this is something I look at when handling birds. a bird that is difficult to handle wins points I am not looking for pets! Hello Slugmonkey, It is true what you say, Piet de Weerd was the fist man I knew to pull the beak, he called it MORDENT. I do not know why he gave it that word because in the English language it means something quite different. Maybe it is a Flemish word.He definitely was the first to introduce the habit to America. Regards Jack Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Merlin Posted March 20, 2008 Report Share Posted March 20, 2008 in agrement with both Jack and Slugmonkey on above,especially on feathering with "hard feathered" birds performing especially well on damp or wet race days. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
timbarra Posted March 20, 2008 Report Share Posted March 20, 2008 please , accept my apologies for interupting, may I ask what merlin and slugmonkey and Jack have won in the last 3-4 years ? just a question as I would find that theory should be backed by proof of results, please dont quote others winning with your birds just what you have won, even if its 1 race or 10 races. I just interested. thanks and no insult intended spencer Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
timbarra Posted March 20, 2008 Report Share Posted March 20, 2008 Could you please take into account , your last competitive season if not the last few years. if you last raced in 2001 say, then the results for that year will do. regards spencer Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Merlin Posted March 20, 2008 Report Share Posted March 20, 2008 Ted and Merlin, I shall not post on this thread , Jack please continue with your methods of teaching whatever you decide, I do not and have not insulted you personally and wish therefore to not converse with anyone who finds this way of comunication acceptable in this day and age. thank you spencer Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bewted Posted March 20, 2008 Report Share Posted March 20, 2008 Ted and Merlin, I shall not post on this thread , Jack please continue with your methods of teaching whatever you decide, I do not and have not insulted you personally and wish therefore to not converse with anyone who finds this way of comunication acceptable in this day and age. thank you spencer Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest slugmonkey Posted March 20, 2008 Report Share Posted March 20, 2008 RIGHT NOW am flying birds in top 2% of Tampa Bay unit 10 club with 150+ members and consistently over 2500 birds, also took 56th and 65th world ace challenge, also supplied birds to double D lofts which took 51st in a little race in south africa you may have heard about called the Sun City Million, could also get personal letters of testimony from a few guys I have sold birds to if needed What have you done lately ? and more importantly why are you posting on here you have your thread go on scoot! I tire of listening to your attacks on anyone here that seems to try learn something here I read your thread and you have some valid points but this thread is titled Jack Barkel - Eyesign nuf said I hope P.S. I don't know what you call how I do things I don't think it's fact and I don't think its theory but it is practice - that works P.S.S. I also own our club speed record which I broke my own previous record to get and have tied the club record for most wins in a season, twice P.S.S.S. It should also be noted that when I broke the club record last tim the 2nd place loft broke the national record for the distance that his loft is at but since he didnt win the race the record wouldnt stand this is on the A.U. website if you would like times and distances Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jack Barkel Posted March 20, 2008 Author Report Share Posted March 20, 2008 Hello Slugmonkey, I have been to Tampa, I have taken a bus tour around all the lofts there. I gave two seminars to packed audiences there at the AU Convention. The hospitality and interest was such that I will never forget it. A beautiful place, where you are competing against some of the best retired fanciers in America. It is well named Little Belgium. Best Regards Jack Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest slugmonkey Posted March 20, 2008 Report Share Posted March 20, 2008 Yes Jack I love it there next time you go there please tell me so we may meet face to face Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest slugmonkey Posted March 20, 2008 Report Share Posted March 20, 2008 Jack I hate to think if those guys are RETIRED what an active flyer would be like lol Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bewted Posted March 20, 2008 Report Share Posted March 20, 2008 if you want my information timbarra,,,,,in the eighties when i had my first young bird season as i was starting up then,,,,i was never out of the top ten in my first year,not able to recall exact positions just now,but,i had a good fancier that learnt me a lot then as he was racing in the up north combine before moving down here to bedford,i even had the first one in my area on the west side from the whole east anglian region down to london,approx 50/60 miles,with a strong westerly winds against my bird,so,i do have some experiance even though long ago and just getting back into the sport now and with jack barkels help,i will be a much better fancier,,,, please leave this thread of jacks on eyesign alone,you said you would not come on here again,,,,,so,what are you doing here,just go away and most of us on here will be happy and then we can learn more,not just reading your drivel on here !!! please go away !!!! ted Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Merlin Posted March 20, 2008 Report Share Posted March 20, 2008 Timbarra,against my better judgement I know I should totally ignore you because on a scale of 1/10 you are way off the scale,log on to www,racingpigeon.ie,you will find my last two seasons Old Bird results on same under M/F Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
timbarra Posted March 20, 2008 Report Share Posted March 20, 2008 look guys I was not about to judge anyone. I just thought if you have a system that works why look for other means such as eyesign and wing theory, whatever the reason , its your perogative and i wish you all well, if you choose to ignore me thats fine, I am in no way intending to discourage anyone. slug monkey, very impressive performances , I congratulate you, my last season before I moved house was 6 races 3x1st, 1x3rd,1x6th,1x7th so i scored in each race, only entering 2 at each race from a team of 5 hens !! then I have been at my present address a year and at the moment have yet to join the local club, but I have young family which takes my time!! I to hold club records, I also do not wish to check your answers as that is not me , some do but I accept your word sir. thats good enough. merlin and ted , its nice to know people are interested in eyesign , all the best to your endeavours. SM my thread has also not gone to scoot as you put it, I care not what people think of me as nobody on here except 2-3 people have actually met me and they make their own decisions . greetings and best regards spencer Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest slugmonkey Posted March 20, 2008 Report Share Posted March 20, 2008 Timbarra the reason I get top performances is that I am constantly asking why and trying to better my performances I don't think any 1 system is the key to winning but I am always looking for an edge I think ALL of this can be sumed up by my good friend Ben Fichter ( True Grit ) Corn and gas are what win races! Timbarra I didnt say your post had gone to scoot I even went as far as to say you had some valid points which I will stand behind I was merely saying that this post is Jacks. You also said that none of us know you and that is correct but in this community you are known by your posts and your answers and these attacks are not gaining any points in this arena. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jack Barkel Posted March 26, 2008 Author Report Share Posted March 26, 2008 Questions & Answers 3. Q. Is it possible for a birds eye to change from pearl to yellow. ( It was a youngster last year when you evaluated it.) A. Yes, in the first few months of their life one or the other colour can be predominant, and then change as the bird starts to mature. This usually occurs from a pearl to a yellow, recessive to a dominant colour and not the other way around. Maybe the bird was young when you brought it to me, and eye changes can be expected up to the age of eighteen months. From then on, eye changes are usually caused by an illness or trauma. ****************************** Q. Is it possible to see vitality, or lack thereof, in the eye of a bird? If so is it possible for you to publish an eye full of vitality and (vigour) and an eye lacking vitality? Is it that simple? A. Yes it is possible to see the lack of and the abundance of vitality in the eye. Unfortunately I do not have any eyes in my collection with heavy lack lustre, neither have I eyes that show very little vitality. Eye 1 & 2 below do not show that gleam of vitality that I look for in a stock pigeon, that I hope it will carry over to its offspring. After looking at eye 1.&2. then moving on to eye 3 & 4. I believe that even a novice will be able to see the vitality screaming out in eyes 3 & 4. I believe that 3&4 are the eyes most fanciers look for, and very few realize the attraction is vitality, that will attract even the newest lay person to the sport. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Merlin Posted March 26, 2008 Report Share Posted March 26, 2008 Good morning Jack You may have answered these before if so sorry,at what age of bird do you start to evaluate its eyes. What strength of loop/glass do you recommend,or is it down to individuals eye. Thank You. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bewted Posted March 26, 2008 Report Share Posted March 26, 2008 hi jack thank you once again for posting here,i hope to see and read many more of your articles here in the future !!! best regards ted Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jack Barkel Posted March 26, 2008 Author Report Share Posted March 26, 2008 hi jack thank you once again for posting here,i hope to see and read many more of your articles here in the future !!! best regards ted Hello Ted & Merlin, It is obvious I did not start at the beginning on this thread, as one person was asking on another thread about ratings and you Ted directed him to this thread. Merlin to you, I say as soon as the bird gets colour in it's eye you can rate it, however the grading can change up to a period of 18 months. I will start from the beginning shortly and then give examples with photo's of ratings. As you all know I dispenced with rating by numbers over 50 years ago. I found it to leave a huge variation of type, and that a more precise type of grading was needed. All will be revealed shortly, and thanks for the questions. Regards Jack Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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